Broke Yotes!!

[Money99]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

The tactic may have been questionable, but I hope Ballsilie gets Phoenix in Canada. Let's be honest - Arizona is not a hockey market and if the NHL thinks someone is going to bid that much on a team, they can forget it.

The owners may not like it, but I am sure they'd rather keep their own coin than bailing out Phoenix. besides, it's about time we had a new team in Canada anyway.

EXACTLY!

While the owners might be ticked about this turn of events, I'm sure they'd all much prefer moving the team to Hamilton than continue to pay out of their own pockets, or have the team fold completely which would lessen the value of the remaining teams.

I go to HFBoards.com's forums but when talking about this it's become tedious. The 10 Coytoes fans argue that it's a great hockey market and all Canadians are bastards for wanting to get their hands on their team.

My feelings, as a Canadian, are that the team needs to be moved and I don't really care where to.
As a Wings fan I want it in Hamilton because then Detroit will have another eastern time zone club to play against.

As a hockey fan, I want the team to go anywhere it's supported. Phoenix has proven to be a terrible hockey market. I have a couple buddies that live there and while they say there are games where there might be 11,000 fans on hand, he's been to a number where there are less than 5,000.
This experiment is over. Give the franchise to any city that will love it and support it. I don't care if it's Hamilton, Portland or San Antonio.
I love hockey so I detest seeing cities who couldn't care less about the sport own a team.

[Qb]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

I'm about as far from an expert on bankruptcy proceedings as you can be, but the Pens were mired in that crap, so I had no choice but to follow. I believe once it goes to the courts, they have the responsibility to get the highest possible return for the assets to satisfy the creditors. This is probably why Ballsilie is reportedly making such an outrageous bid -- in my admittedly limited understanding this would almost guarantee that he gets the team...

[Perceptor]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Not exactly QB but pretty close. There is one way the NHL could "win" and it is explained in this article

http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

[Qb]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Not exactly QB but pretty close. There is one way the NHL could "win" and it is explained in this article
http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

Yeah, I guess the relocation condition does complicate things. Hopefully this is sorted out before the 2009-10 season begins...

I can only assume that the league (ie, owners & suits) does not want franchises moving for the simple fact that it can reflect poorly on the NHL (ie, the product) as a whole. But you'd think at some point common sense would win out. Of course, the strong hockey market that appears to be the destination is also a factor, as I'm sure that Toronto, Buffalo, and Detroit are not thrilled with the idea of another team in their general vicinity.

[Perceptor]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

In terms of hockey markets, Buffalo would be fine I think. Toronto will never suffer and Detroit has the Windsor crowd. Ballsilie knows what he is doing I think and would put a team outside of those markets.

But for the NHL to continue to try to keep franchises in struggling US cities makes no sense to me. Unlike the other major sports, the NHL is a gate-driven league and doesn't get the TV dollars that the NFL gets. Drawing 11,000 fans a game is atrocious and sooner or later, they need to understand that. If they're selling out the arena night in and night out, it's a different story, but Phoenix isn't and that's why I fail to see why that team should stay there.

Hard to believe that Bettman won't see the good this is going to do for the franchise and the NHL if Ballsilie gets the team

[Money99]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Not exactly QB but pretty close. There is one way the NHL could "win" and it is explained in this article
http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

Wow, what a mess!

I guess the first step for the NHL is to determine whether Moyes had the rights to file bankruptcy. If he did, then the NHL's next move is to make sure the bankruptcy court can't uphold Ballsillie's relocation clause.
If both those things fall into place, the Yotes are coming to Canada.

I have a feeling the motion to file Chapter 11 will be upheld.
At that point, it'll be a giant legal mess to determine whether or not Ballsillie can move the team.

I wonder if Ballsillie has researched every aspect of this purchase. One would think he has or else he wouldn't have risked alienating himself even further with this aggressive motion.
If this doesn't work, he'll never get a team.

[Qb]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

In terms of hockey markets, Buffalo would be fine I think. Toronto will never suffer and Detroit has the Windsor crowd. Ballsilie knows what he is doing I think and would put a team outside of those markets.

You're probably right, but I doubt those teams want to risk it...

But for the NHL to continue to try to keep franchises in struggling US cities makes no sense to me... Hard to believe that Bettman won't see the good this is going to do for the franchise and the NHL if Ballsilie gets the team

Agreed and from an American fan who almost lost his team, no less. If a team is succeeding in its market but has ownership problems, moving should not be an option. It would be hard to justify that the Coyotes are succeeding in Phoenix and that they wouldn't in a solid Canadian market.

I feel sorry for the true Coyotes fans out there, especially those that would love to support the team (ie, buy season tickets), but can't for financial and/or other reasons. I was in that boat with the Penguins -- I went to a fair amount of games via the student rush promotions, even when they were putrid. But there was no way in hell that I could afford full-price or season tickets, which is what the league really wants to see when evaluating the market (along with corporate support, which is actually probably even more important)...

I wonder if Ballsillie has researched every aspect of this purchase. One would think he has or else he wouldn't have risked alienating himself even further with this aggressive motion.

This is what I was thinking when I said about bankruptcy having to go to the highest bidder. At the very least, he'll have uber-lawyers on his side, as I'm sure the NHL will.

[Money99]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

This is what I was thinking when I said about bankruptcy having to go to the highest bidder. At the very least, he'll have uber-lawyers on his side, as I'm sure the NHL will.

Yup. It's going to be war of Rocky IV proportions.

I feel bad for the very few diehard Coyotes fans out there.
But like you said, corporate support is what really drives the league. You can have 15,000 season subscribes, but if you don't have any of the local corporations buying up the expensive seats, luxery boxes, etc. the team won't make money.

And that's where I think this move will be approved by the BOG (which needs a 2/3 vote).
Moving the team to a city like Hamilton is like a license to print money. It'll sell out every night, the corporate sponsers will come out in droves and the Canadian TV deal with TSN and CBC will go up even further. And what does that mean for the other 29 owners?
It means the value of their teams go up - not to mention they no longer have to shell out millions from their own pocket to keep a failed franchise above water.

If this move is shot down by the BOG then it's only because their hate for Ballsillie, or level of brainwashing from Bettman, has reached record levels.

[Matteh]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

I dont really care if the franchise stays in Phoenix(for the diehard hockey fans that are there I hope they stay because I know how I would feel if this was happening in Tampa), but I just hope it's not Ballsille getting the team. He just seems like a shady character in his attempts to buy teams. I understand the notion to put another team in Canada, but he should be working with the NHL instead of trying to work around them. I think that might be why there's such backlash against him. It's disappointing to see what's happened to Phoenix. That fanbase was great in the late 90's with the whiteouts for playoff games. It was awesome to see. Seems like once the recognizeable guys like Tkachuk, Roenick, and Khabibulin left it went downhill there.

[SPTO]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Wow, what a mess!

I guess the first step for the NHL is to determine whether Moyes had the rights to file bankruptcy. If he did, then the NHL's next move is to make sure the bankruptcy court can't uphold Ballsillie's relocation clause.
If both those things fall into place, the Yotes are coming to Canada.

The thing is, I'm sure the NHL wouldn't have had a problem if Moyes had done this with another "Boots" Del Biaggio type (basically a fraud) just to keep the team in PHX. For some reason Balsillie and Bettman hate each other's guts and it's very personal. The way I see it the NHL can't suddenly retroactively say "oh the owner couldn't do this blah blah blah" because then what's the point of operating a team if you can't do anything business related?

As for the relocation? If the NHL tries to block that then Balsillie has the option of filing a grievance under the anti-trust exemption laws. I don't think Bettman wants to get into a legal battle that brings up anti-trust because then previous dealings where Disney (original owners of Anaheim) had to pay money to Bruce McNall just to have the team play there! That seems a bit shady given how anti-trust works doesn't it?

Needless to say I don't see the NHL winning this one.

[Qb]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Yup. It's going to be war of Rocky IV proportions.

What an odd choice of words considering my EASHL alter-ego is Ivan Drago.

[armi5718]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Oh my GOD! Ballsilie also tried to buy the Predators and move them to Hamilton. When he did that he sold tickets via ticketmaster for the "Hamilton Predators" and sold out almost the entire arena for that season! MOVE THE COYOTES! Why is Bettman trying to hold hockey in the desert when it belongs in Canada?

Seriously, Bettman is an AWFUL representative for the NHL. 2 lockouts under his supervision, numerous teams stolen from Canada and moved to the south. The game has changed COMPLETELY since he took control. Smaller ice, smaller goalie pads, different nets, that trapazoid bs. Hockey as governed by a basketball fan/lawyer. Garbage!

[Money99]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Oh my GOD! Ballsilie also tried to buy the Predators and move them to Hamilton. When he did that he sold tickets via ticketmaster for the "Hamilton Predators" and sold out almost the entire arena for that season! MOVE THE COYOTES! Why is Bettman trying to hold hockey in the desert when it belongs in Canada?

Seriously, Bettman is an AWFUL representative for the NHL. 2 lockouts under his supervision, numerous teams stolen from Canada and moved to the south. The game has changed COMPLETELY since he took control. Smaller ice, smaller goalie pads, different nets, that trapazoid bs. Hockey as governed by a basketball fan/lawyer. Garbage!

Bettman's whole job is to make the NHL profitable and appear as a great investment for other billionaires.
So when someone tries to relocate a struggling team it shines a light on the cracks within the armor and he freaks out.

This whole scenario is going to get insanely ugly.
Bettman swore up and down that the Coyotes were fine, they weren't losing that much money and the NHL wasn't assisting it financially any different than it does the other 29 clubs.

Suddenly the Coyotes owner goes behind the leagues back, declares Chapter 11 and works with a rival (Ballsillie) to purchase the club so he can move it.
It's a slap in the face to Bettman and the owners because it only shows what a bunch of liars they are. Bettman keeps trumpeting that the emperor is wearing fancy clothes when the whole world knows he's naked.
With the filing of Chapter 11 it proves he's lying and that the NHL isn't as strong as he wants it to be.

This is why Bettman and his lawyers will do everything in their power to keep the Coyotes in Arizona or at the very least make sure Ballsillie doesn't own them.

I think Bettman learned his lessen from the 90's when relocation was a common thing. The value of franchises went down and it made the league look foolish and weak.

That's why he's fought so hard of late to keep teams like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Nashville and Tampa Bay stay where they are.

The truth is, there's too many teams. If there were only 20 the game would be better because every club would have a handful of stars instead of one a piece or none at all like Phoenix.

[tabulaRasa]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

Hartford Coyotes?
Let´s see what happens, but isn´t this another : I am Bettman, I will stop you from moving the team - and end of story

[Qb]

Re: Broke Yotes!!

"We fix the problems. We don't run out on cities.

"This is not about whether we want a franchise in southern Ontario. This is not about whether Mr. Balsillie would make a suitable owner and one the league would approve.

This is taken from some fine coverage of the situation by James Mirtle over at www.fromtherink.com via Bettman's interview with CNBC. Cough, Winnipeg, Hartford, Quebec, cough...