Lockout/CBA Discussion Thread

[Money99]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I'm all for reducing tender gear as I agree some of the pads these guys wear, Miller and Luongo and even Tim Thomas is just ridiculously huge. But for any other sweeping changes just to try to produce more offense, meh, would rather it not happen.

There's not a thing wrong with watching a defensive low scoring game as each possession in the offensive zone becomes all that more important to try and make a goal out of it. I sometimes get the feeling if Hank had his way blocking shots would be a penalty and that on defense teams should just allow the other team scoring chances to make it exciting or some ****. People obviously follow hockey for different reasons and all but for me, while goals are nice, it's not the end all be all imo.

I would absolutely outlaw leaving your feet to block a shot.
There is absolutely no skill involved with that kind of play. Heart, yes; skill, no.

I pay large amounts of money to watch guys do things on the ice I couldn't do.
I can lay down to block shots. I can hustle back to break-up plays. What I can't do is make great offensive plays at break-neck speeds and with hulking d'men breathing down my neck.

I don't mind a good defensive battle, but when that equates to 99% of the games out there, it's lost it's currency on my appreciation for it.
And like I've said, a very large portion of these defensive battles are horribly boring.
It's not like both teams are blazing back and forth attempting chances only to be thwarted by great defensive plays or awesome, highlight saves.
Most of the time, it's two teams not even caring about the puck while a goalie makes one boring table-hockey, belly save after another.

And for the record, I do believe there can be a compromise between making changes that allow teams to play sound defense, while still allowing for more 'no-chance' goals.
Now, every single goal is either because of a man-advantage, or someone tripped on their stick.

I truly believe if you increased the size (or severely shrink the goalie gear) of the ice and nets, a middle-ground can be found. Players can still not give a crap about the puck and earn a wage making 'awesome' plays like laying down in front of a shot, while guys who actually have talent like Gaborik, have more room to do what 99.9% of the population can't do.

NFL fans are kinda upset with all the rules benefitting the offense and the league becoming pass happy.

People do like defense too.

Must not be that upset. NFL ratings have never been better.
Meanwhile, NHL ratings have been the same, in some cases worse, than they were from 20 years ago.
The sport has not grown at all. It's essentially the same pocket of die-hard fans that have carried this sport.
Google TV ratings and you'll see that the ratings from '94 were better than this years Stanley Cup final.

BTW, I don't need a 7-6 game every night either. I'm more of the 7 to 8 goals per game guy.
A good 4-3 tilt, with 5 even-strength, CLEAN goals is right up my alley.
If you need more than 3 replays from 6 different angles, it's a crap goal.

[thedudedominick]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Must not be that upset. NFL ratings have never been better.
Meanwhile, NHL ratings have been the same, in some cases worse, than they were from 20 years ago.
The sport has not grown at all. It's essentially the same pocket of die-hard fans that have carried this sport.
Google TV ratings and you'll see that the ratings from '94 were better than this years Stanley Cup final.

Let's not compare NFL and NHL ratings. The NFL is on nation channels that everyone gets. NBCSN is not a popular network for anyone outside of NHL fans. Let's look at attendance, the NFL has had issues with attendance being down the last few years.

Also for who it was that mentioned the NFL, I have completely lost interest in the NFL recently with everything being completely offense based.

I also love the goals in the NHL now. Less of an open game means the skilled players can really shine in what they do. Watching what the top players in the league can do in traffic and the passes they somehow find always keeps things exciting.

[Money99]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Let's not compare NFL and NHL ratings. The NFL is on nation channels that everyone gets. NBCSN is not a popular network for anyone outside of NHL fans. Let's look at attendance, the NFL has had issues with attendance being down the last few years.

And why is the NFL on ESPN and the NHL isn't? Hmm, might have something to do with ratings.
ESPN offered the NHL $0 to showcase their league. That's how much ESPN thinks of hockey and it's popularity.
And while tickets may have taken a hit in the last few years, the TV deal is where the real money is at. And TV ratings are still awesome.

Besides, the 'low' attendance you speak of isn't really a problem.
If you look at the stats you'll see that it has more to do with the less-attended teams being perenial losers than anything.
The league has dropped a total of 300K tickets over the entire league, over a 256 game spread.
That's a whopping total of 1170 tickets per game. Considering most building seat over 50K, I wouldn't call that a mass exitus of fans from the NFL.

Also for who it was that mentioned the NFL, I have completely lost interest in the NFL recently with everything being completely offense based.

You're one of the few. Ratings are up, and new fans are coming into the league.

I also love the goals in the NHL now. Less of an open game means the skilled players can really shine in what they do. Watching what the top players in the league can do in traffic and the passes they somehow find always keeps things exciting.

Seriously? How is less room to move and maneuver equate to helping the star players do what they do best?
By your definition, if the NHL shrunk the rinks in half, we should double the scoring?
I'm seriously baffled by this statement.

[thedudedominick]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I also love the goals in the NHL now. Less of an open game means the skilled players can really shine in what they do. Watching what the top players in the league can do in traffic and the passes they somehow find always keeps things exciting.

Seriously? How is less room to move and maneuver equate to helping the star players do what they do best?
By your definition, if the NHL shrunk the rinks in half, we should double the scoring?
I'm seriously baffled by this statement.

I didn't say it increases scoring, I said it allows the most skilled guys to truly show their talent. With less wide open space guys truly have to be talented to shine. You don't have average players in the 80+ point range. Guys like Datsyuk can still make plays every night despite the lack of space. Showing skill in tight situations is much more exciting to me than a guy playing one on one hockey or constant rush hockey.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. I don't think more scoring= a better product on the ice.

[sharks]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

In the understatement of the century, I disagree with this line of thinking.

This is more of a fact. One goal out of three is a higher percentage than one out of nine.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Something else that really irks me about this whole thing is the fact that the owners are wanting to limit the length of contracts. Here's a genius idea, DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO RIDICULOUSLY LONG CONTRACTS.

Why does there have to be some rule in place from saving them from themselves? This one just makes absolutely no sense to me.

[DrJones]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

This is more of a fact. One goal out of three is a higher percentage than one out of nine.

So in an ideal world, all sporting events would end with a score of 1-0? Sounds like fun.

[Money99]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I didn't say it increases scoring, I said it allows the most skilled guys to truly show their talent. With less wide open space guys truly have to be talented to shine. You don't have average players in the 80+ point range. Guys like Datsyuk can still make plays every night despite the lack of space. Showing skill in tight situations is much more exciting to me than a guy playing one on one hockey or constant rush hockey.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. I don't think more scoring= a better product on the ice.

Agreed. I know I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine.
I just think there's a middle ground between the soccer/hockey we see now, and 80's hockey.
Like DrJones said, I beileve the early 90's was the perfect mix of competent defenses and goalies, and a more wide open approach to the game.
Back then, teams won by trying to score more goals than their opposition, but today, teams try to make the other team score less than them.
I know that doesn't sound logical, haha, but I do believe there's a difference between the two philosophies.
Cheers!

[letsgopens66]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I'm definitely on the side of leaving the game the way it is. I don't like 1-0 games as much as the next guy, but I definitely want goals to mean something. A 3-2 or 4-3 game is probably my favorite game in hockey.

[mercalnd]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I'm definitely on the side of leaving the game the way it is. I don't like 1-0 games as much as the next guy, but I definitely want goals to mean something. A 3-2 or 4-3 game is probably my favorite game in hockey.

I agree. Anything above 10 total goals in a game is getting into ridiculous territory for me. I can enjoy a good back and forth game that ends 6-4 but that's pretty much my limit. I want to see good offensive execution but offense loses some of its luster when it seems the defense isn't even trying.

[jyoung]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

The problem with the NHL right now isn't the number of goals scored, but the fact that the majority of goals are scored on power plays.

Too many games end up becoming special teams exhibitions.

This is partly because there's no consistency to the officiating on a night-to-night basis. I would say the NHL probably has the worst officiating of any pro or amateur sports league outside of the NBA.

[aholbert32]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Something else that really irks me about this whole thing is the fact that the owners are wanting to limit the length of contracts. Here's a genius idea, DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO RIDICULOUSLY LONG CONTRACTS.

Why does there have to be some rule in place from saving them from themselves? This one just makes absolutely no sense to me.

That would be called Collusion. They cant make a league wide agreement not to offer 10 yr contracts unless its in a CBA.

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Something else that really irks me about this whole thing is the fact that the owners are wanting to limit the length of contracts. Here's a genius idea, DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO RIDICULOUSLY LONG CONTRACTS.

Why does there have to be some rule in place from saving them from themselves? This one just makes absolutely no sense to me.

The 10-15 year deals kill hot stove. Have max 5 year deals.

[gopher_guy]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

Something else that really irks me about this whole thing is the fact that the owners are wanting to limit the length of contracts. Here's a genius idea, DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO RIDICULOUSLY LONG CONTRACTS.

Why does there have to be some rule in place from saving them from themselves? This one just makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's the nature of the beast, though. Players and agents want those big contracts. If an owner doesn't give it to them, you can be sure they'll find an owner who does.

The pressure put on these owners/GMs is too intense to let a player get away because they didn't want to offer him as long of a contract.

I don't think of it as a rule to "save them from themselves," I see it as a rule to protect an owner from all the other owners.

[liberaluser]

Re: Potential Issues with the CBA

I'm surprised with all this discussion about what's wrong with NHL hockey, from the goalies' pads to the refs' inconsistent calls, nobody has brought up the way the current points system encourages teams to drag out a game into overtime because they can settle for the extra point in OT.

How about losing the game gets you zero points? That would really force listless teams to go into overdrive near the end of play and have games decided by the strength of your teamwork not a stinking skills competiton, which is always a crap shoot.