What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

[letsgopens66]

After a very interesting start to the playoffs, there's one question I still have:

Where do you draw the line between a dangerous player and a dirty player?

With all these suspensions being handed out, I think this is a fair question. For example, let's look at Niklas Kronwall. He's a big hitter, but he also leaves his feet in quite a few of his big hits and hits high. Does that make him dirty? Does the fact that he preys on defenseless players along the boards make him dirty?

I'm honestly curious. I just don't really have a clean grasp on what clean hitting is I guess. When I look at Kronwall's hits and then I look at James Neal try to hit Giroux, I don't really know why Neal is dirty but Kronwall is clean.

I'm not trying to call out Kronwall. The guy's exciting to watch. And I'm not trying to defend the Pens (I do that enough in the Flyers/Pens thread ). I just wanna see what the general perception is on what is going on with hitting in the NHL right now.

[2k10Fonzarelli]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

Me too, I wonder the same thing.

In my no-way-expert opinion, dirty/dangerous hits seem to be at the front of everyone's minds(and if their not dirty, there at least; 'hits with no regard for the health and well being of the receiving player.'

I actually came here to OS today on a mission. I am vehemently opposed to any kind of malice in professional sports, even in situations where it is dictated(except fighting in Hockey, that sure beats people whacking each other with sharp clubs).

Specifically, i came here to find out the community's sentiments on Torres' (insignificant) 25 games suspension.

Now, to make this clear, im what 'real fans' refer to as a bandwagoner. I watch highlights on a mostly daily basis and follow the Senators when they make the playoffs.

So to the point. I watched Cam Stewart say on TheScore that 25 games was too much. My natural reaction was 'Wait, What? Torres hit Hossa with malice and intent to cause harm. He was not 'finishing a check' (which seems like a dodgy way to justify someone getting brutally injured), he criminally assaulted Hossa. He deserves indefinite suspension'

We've all seen the hit, theres no question it was both dirty and dangerous. My question to the OS'ers is : Why would Cam Stewart(who is a big time hockey fan if you don't know who he is) say he deserves less, and why would I(not so much a big time hockey fan, but a generally all-around wouldn't hurt a fly, flight>fight, sports supporter type guy) think he deserves so much more.

After 25 games are up, and Torres is back on the Ice trying to hurt people what will this suspension represent? Is it not the equivalent of a slap on the wrist? Hockey's equivalent of probation or house arrest? Send this mother to Hockey jail and make an example that this kind of lack of control and disregard for safety can not, and will not, be tolerated! I think by this time next season the incident and suspension will be largely forgotten and the suspension itself absolutely irrelevant.

Compared to previous suspensions from the league in the past, sure it seems a bit much. But its apparent by the number of dangerous hits that i've witnessed this year alone that those 1-5 games suspensions aren't a deterrent for dangerous players to not intentionally try to hurt someone. As a human being with a just head on its shoulders, that hit made me sick to my stomach.

I feel very similarly about the RON ARTEST incident with James Harden.
If he has a shred of dignity left after that crap he'll change his name back to Ron Artest. (Sorry bout that off topic bit, but that was just....wow)

So, i look forward to being educated on the matter of "Why 25 games is too much for Torres' hit on Hossa". And also, what OS'ers are feeling about the state of hitting in the NHL right now/over the last season.

[DrJones]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

Firstly, Torres is a POS and I don't have sympathy for him. That said, people get annoyed because NHL discipline is completely arbitrary.

Why not 5 games? Why not 500? Why did Rene Bourque (a repeat offender) only get 5 games for injuring Nicklas Backstrom? Why did Cooke's elbow on Ryan McDonagh only merit 17 games? Why did Dale Hunter, Marty McSorley, and Todd Bertuzzi (all of them repeat offenders) receive lesser suspensions for far more heinous acts, 2 of which occurred well after the whistle? People don't take you seriously if you make up the rules on the fly, and the NHL does this constantly when it comes to player discipline.

[DrJones]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

And also, what OS'ers are feeling about the state of hitting in the NHL right now/over the last season.

I'm feeling that neither the players nor the owners give a ****. The NHL only cares when it's bad PR, the players are only outraged when their own teammates get hurt. If either side took it seriously, the league would ban ALL contact to the head, and the players would get rid of the armoured shoulder and elbow pads immediately. Both sides talk of change, but they don't really mean it.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

Dirty is poking the back of a guy's leg with your stick before the faceoff in order to agitate him. Dangerous is slashing the guys leg.

[thedudedominick]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

To me the difference between dirty and dangerous is the intent. Think about it in the situation of an elbow. A dangerous play is a guy going for a shoulder check but letting his elbow come up and catching a guy in the head. A dirty play is leading with the elbow.

A Dangerous play is lining a guy up for a check near the boards only for him to turn his back and get boarded. A dirty play is skating in while a guy has his back to you and crosschecking him into the board.

[pietasterp]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

The difference is Brendan Shanahan's mood that day...

[slickdtc]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

I'm feeling that neither the players nor the owners give a ****. The NHL only cares when it's bad PR, the players are only outraged when their own teammates get hurt. If either side took it seriously, the league would ban ALL contact to the head, and the players would get rid of the armoured shoulder and elbow pads immediately. Both sides talk of change, but they don't really mean it.

Just awaiting that first death on the ice. Wouldn't surprise me if we saw one this postseason with all the craziness that has run amok.

[slickdtc]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

For some reason, Torres suspension was reduced by 4 games. Time heals all wounds?

[Dispatch]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

For some reason, Torres suspension was reduced by 4 games. Time heals all wounds?

More like Shanahan threw a dart at a board and 4 was the number it landed on. I don't understand why the NHL has such a hard time cleaning up the game.

People like Torres, Cooke and the like have no place in the NHL if they are out there trying to injure players. I know Cooke had a clean year this past season but the guy is still a dirtbag. After what he did to Savard the guy should be out of the game since he ended Savards career.

[cottageboy789]

Re: What's the difference between dangerous and dirty?

I'm actually shocked about the OP's statement, I've always considered Kronwall one of the hardest, cleanest hitters in the league. Torres is a POS and probably deserved more. The reason it was 25 initially was because that was the maximum number of games he could've played in the playoffs. I don't think it should've gotten reduced. I think Shanaban should have said that He is gone for the playoffs and then a set number of games for this season like 10/12. As for Cooke, I think it depends on what he does this year. If he stays clean, I think he's changed. If he goes back to his old, cheapshotting, career ending self, then he is a POS.