NHL to disolve and create new league?

[tripwire]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

Out of this whole CBA mess I have yet to hear the owners or Bettman take responsibility for the mess they are in. Remember nobody pointed a gun to the owners heads to pay the salaries they gave out. It was done under their own free-will.

Heck juding from this summer the market is correcting itself. (Outside of Belfour's and Conroy's deal).

Bettman doesn't want to admit this but the truth is that they want a cap basically because it will protect the owners .... from themselves. They want to make it a idiot proof.

Some truth to that, but don't think for a second that the players and their agents had nothing to do with the escalating salary problem. It's a give and take, and there are about 6 owners who'll give and about any player that will take.

[tripwire]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

Remember ... that was the Union's opening position, it is not like they have said it is a final offer. I hate to keep repeating myself, but a hard cap system will not work without significantly downgrading the product. Find 150 NHL calibre players not playing in the NHL, and then you can make a cap work. There aren't.

The Union has demonstrated a good faith attempt at negotiating and have already tabled significant concessions. It is the owners who are saying they aren't interested in negotiating, it's our way or the highway. This is really about nothing more than Bettman keeping his job.

Tp be honest, I don't give a damn about the owners who created this mess. I don't really care about the players, they make a good living. In fact, the only people I actually feel sorry for are the league and team front office employees who are being laid off or severed because of Bettman's ego.

However, the real reason I oppose the owners is that I care a lot about the game and the owners are putting it on a path that I don't like because the on-ice product is at risk.

The NHLPA has only placed 1 offer on the table so far, and that was last year. If they have a problem with everything Bettman and Daly put on the table, then make a damn counter-offer instead of just shooting everything down. Both sides are on the extreme opposite of each other, but hopefully someone will come out with a last minute offer that they can both work on. Personally, I believe the NHLPA will do just that, but I'm not sure if it will be the same as last year's version. If it is, then we're in for a long lockout.

[tripwire]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

Remember ... that was the Union's opening position, it is not like they have said it is a final offer. I hate to keep repeating myself, but a hard cap system will not work without significantly downgrading the product. Find 150 NHL calibre players not playing in the NHL, and then you can make a cap work. There aren't.

The Union has demonstrated a good faith attempt at negotiating and have already tabled significant concessions. It is the owners who are saying they aren't interested in negotiating, it's our way or the highway. This is really about nothing more than Bettman keeping his job.

Tp be honest, I don't give a damn about the owners who created this mess. I don't really care about the players, they make a good living. In fact, the only people I actually feel sorry for are the league and team front office employees who are being laid off or severed because of Bettman's ego.

However, the real reason I oppose the owners is that I care a lot about the game and the owners are putting it on a path that I don't like because the on-ice product is at risk.

The NHLPA has only placed 1 offer on the table so far, and that was last year. If they have a problem with everything Bettman and Daly put on the table, then make a damn counter-offer instead of just shooting everything down. Both sides are on the extreme opposite of each other, but hopefully someone will come out with a last minute offer that they can both work on. Personally, I believe the NHLPA will do just that, but I'm not sure if it will be the same as last year's version. If it is, then we're in for a long lockout.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

Some truth to that, but don't think for a second that the players and their agents had nothing to do with the escalating salary problem. It's a give and take, and there are about 6 owners who'll give and about any player that will take.

I don't blame the players for taking what the owners offer.

Heck if X employer wants to pay me $40 an hr while my current employer is holding the hard line at $22 an hr, the chances are I'm going to take the $40 an hr offer.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

Some truth to that, but don't think for a second that the players and their agents had nothing to do with the escalating salary problem. It's a give and take, and there are about 6 owners who'll give and about any player that will take.

I don't blame the players for taking what the owners offer.

Heck if X employer wants to pay me $40 an hr while my current employer is holding the hard line at $22 an hr, the chances are I'm going to take the $40 an hr offer.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

The NHLPA has only placed 1 offer on the table so far, and that was last year. If they have a problem with everything Bettman and Daly put on the table, then make a damn counter-offer instead of just shooting everything down. Both sides are on the extreme opposite of each other, but hopefully someone will come out with a last minute offer that they can both work on. Personally, I believe the NHLPA will do just that, but I'm not sure if it will be the same as last year's version. If it is, then we're in for a long lockout.

Who says it's their responsibility to make a counter-offer?

As with all Collective Bargaining, in all industries, both parties exchanged proposal binders on the first day. The Management binder contained a proposal with six different options, the PA's one. It is usual and typical for both sides to engage in explaining and particularizing what their proposals mean. The many days spent so far have been taken up by both sides reviewing the owner's six options with respect to the finances and operating expenses of each team. That excercise concluded last Friday. The PA has indicated that they will assess the information the owners have provided and respond with a counter-proposal.

There is nothing unprofessional or unethical or unreasonable in the manner that either side has conducted themselves in at the acutal table (the same thing takes place in every bargaining situation).

Your automatic "let's blame the PA" response to everything that goes on is unfortunate because it precludes reaching a fair conclusion of either sides behaviour.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Re: NHL to disolve and create new league?

The NHLPA has only placed 1 offer on the table so far, and that was last year. If they have a problem with everything Bettman and Daly put on the table, then make a damn counter-offer instead of just shooting everything down. Both sides are on the extreme opposite of each other, but hopefully someone will come out with a last minute offer that they can both work on. Personally, I believe the NHLPA will do just that, but I'm not sure if it will be the same as last year's version. If it is, then we're in for a long lockout.

Who says it's their responsibility to make a counter-offer?

As with all Collective Bargaining, in all industries, both parties exchanged proposal binders on the first day. The Management binder contained a proposal with six different options, the PA's one. It is usual and typical for both sides to engage in explaining and particularizing what their proposals mean. The many days spent so far have been taken up by both sides reviewing the owner's six options with respect to the finances and operating expenses of each team. That excercise concluded last Friday. The PA has indicated that they will assess the information the owners have provided and respond with a counter-proposal.

There is nothing unprofessional or unethical or unreasonable in the manner that either side has conducted themselves in at the acutal table (the same thing takes place in every bargaining situation).

Your automatic "let's blame the PA" response to everything that goes on is unfortunate because it precludes reaching a fair conclusion of either sides behaviour.