I would own all the DLC courses...

[dave374]

If they were in my offline career.

It's so sad.

I bought two (Banff and Predator ... I got Spyglass for free), but I simply can't buy anymore.

If they're not in my offline career, I simply can't justify it. 600 MS points or $7.95 is too much to pay for an 18-hole course ... or an occasional EA tourney.

I so want to play the Gary Player course - but if it's not part of my offline career, what's the point? I want more than 18 holes.

[bulls23]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

If they were in my offline career.

It's so sad.

I bought two (Banff and Predator ... I got Spyglass for free), but I simply can't buy anymore.

If they're not in my offline career, I simply can't justify it. 600 MS points or $7.95 is too much to pay for an 18-hole course ... or an occasional EA tourney.

I so want to play the Gary Player course - but if it's not part of my offline career, what's the point? I want more than 18 holes.

Completely agree

[baa7]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

The ability to use additional / user-created courses in Tour mode was a staple for years with the PC version of this series. But that option was removed in the 08 game, which was the last version released on the PC. But it wasn't just the fact that these courses were no longer available for use in Tour mode. EA stopped providing the course creation tools altogether. And while the older version of the course architect works, it conflicts with the new game, limiting its effectiveness and making course-creating a frustrating series of workarounds. The once-vibrant TW course design community has all but disappeared.

Course design and user created courses was where cyber golf was heading a decade ago. But not anymore. This is the sort of thing that happens when a company has monopoly on something unfortunately.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

I bought two courses. No more until they drop the price.

[DivotMaker]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

The ability to use additional / user-created courses in Tour mode was a staple for years with the PC version of this series. But that option was removed in the 08 game, which was the last version released on the PC. But it wasn't just the fact that these courses were no longer available for use in Tour mode. EA stopped providing the course creation tools altogether. And while the older version of the course architect works, it conflicts with the new game, limiting its effectiveness and making course-creating a frustrating series of workarounds. The once-vibrant TW course design community has all but disappeared.

Course design and user created courses was where cyber golf was heading a decade ago. But not anymore. This is the sort of thing that happens when a company has monopoly on something unfortunately.

Both the Course Utility program and the TW Course Architect were properties of Headgate Studios, the former developer for TW PC. Headgate has since moved on to become EA Salt Lake City and focus on Wii games. When Headgate was no longer the developer of TW, the features above are still the IP of Headgate and EA was not willing to purchase them for the declining TW PC version. The TW CA was never officially supported by EA either as it was proprietary to Headgate. Hence why EA is moving forward with TW Online. Completely new game built from the ground up.

Lastly, TW PC design community has not all but disappeared....there are courses released almost daily for TW 08....

[baa7]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

Lastly, TW PC design community has not all but disappeared....there are courses released almost daily for TW 08....

I appreciate the info regarding the CA. But c'mon now, compared to what it was a few years ago, the PC designing community is indeed disappearing. Many long-time designers have stopped designing for the TW series due to the limitations and conflicts with the CA. Some of that is to be expected given the PC game is now three years old, and the last CA version released pre-dated that by a couple of years.

But that's also my point. PC gamers and the PC community were treated like red-headed step-children by EA. It wasn't simply a matter of not updating/not providing access to a CA program. EA went out of their way to remove options and features that allowed PC gamers to customize the game to their choosing. It's one thing to not provide design tools. It's another thing entirely to remove the option to import user-created courses into Tour mode. As I said, EA made a conscious decision to alter the game coding in an effort to ensure that custom courses -- which were still being created at that point -- could never be used in the game. And that was the real turning point in the decline of the PC designing community.

[DivotMaker]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

I appreciate the info regarding the CA. But c'mon now, compared to what it was a few years ago, the PC designing community is indeed disappearing. Many long-time designers have stopped designing for the TW series due to the limitations and conflicts with the CA. Some of that is to be expected given the PC game is now three years old, and the last CA version released pre-dated that by a couple of years.

But that's also my point. PC gamers and the PC community were treated like red-headed step-children by EA. It wasn't simply a matter of not updating/not providing access to a CA program. EA went out of their way to remove options and features that allowed PC gamers to customize the game to their choosing. It's one thing to not provide design tools. It's another thing entirely to remove the option to import user-created courses into Tour mode. As I said, EA made a conscious decision to alter the game coding in an effort to ensure that custom courses -- which were still being created at that point -- could never be used in the game. And that was the real turning point in the decline of the PC designing community.

TW08 is 2 years old come August 25, not three. The last CA was released with TW06. The designers have created a number of workarounds that work well and new TW08 courses are coming out at a regular clip. You should spend some time at Coursedownloads.com and PGAX to see that your comments aren't exactly accurate.

EA did not have a choice in removing the Course Utility feature and my understanding is the price for including it was not attractive enough to include in a declining PC version....That being said, there is a user-created course utility that works great.

[baa7]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

You should spend some time at Coursedownloads.com and PGAX to see that your comments aren't exactly accurate.

EA did not have a choice in removing the Course Utility feature and my understanding is the price for including it was not attractive enough to include in a declining PC version....That being said, there is a user-created course utility that works great.

I've been visiting online golf gaming sites for many years. Coursedownloads is a veritable cyber ghost town compared to the activity on other TW sites from years ago.

Yes, I understand and acknowledge that EA decided not to pay for the CA feature. But that doesn't explain their removing the option to import user-created courses into Tour mode in TW 07 and 08. That was a game design decision on their part. They could have continued to provide the in-game tools to allow PC gamers to use those custom courses in Tour mode, which was a hugely popular game feature up until then.

And by preventing gamers from using custom courses in Tour mode, EA in fact contributed to the decline of PC golf gaming. Instead of being proactive and inclusive at a critical time in PC golfing, they responded in a reactive and exclusive manner: they removed key features and options. The inability to use custom courses in Tour mode (and to customize the Tour season -- another option EA removed) turned many people off, bottomline. Those game design decisions drove countless cyber golfers and course designers away from the series.

[DivotMaker]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

Yes, I understand and acknowledge that EA decided not to pay for the CA feature. But that doesn't explain their removing the option to import user-created courses into Tour mode in TW 07 and 08. That was a game design decision on their part. They could have continued to provide the in-game tools to allow PC gamers to use those custom courses in Tour mode, which was a hugely popular game feature up until then. And by preventing gamers from doing so, EA in fact contributed to the decline of PC golf gaming. Instead of being proactive and inclusive, they responded in a reactive and exclusive manner. They removed key features and options, which then severely limited one's ability to customize the game. And which in turn drove many cyber golfers and course designers away from the series.

They did not have a license to put the Course Utilities in TW08.

[baa7]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

They did not have a license to put the Course Utilities in TW08.

Sorry, I don't understand that. That option was already in the game back in 03-04: a season-create feature that allowed the user to select which course he/she wished to use for each tournament. The season-create feature also allowed the user to set weather conditions, pin location, number of rounds, course conditions, etc. Yet all of that was removed from the game.

I saw all this coming around the time Links folded. I posted on this site and others back in 04-05 that the option to create courses would soon be removed from the TW series. First off, EA was always loathe to provide PC gamers with an updated CA. And they never even provided a full-featured version. To this day, the CA doesn't allow designers to smooth the areas and edges where textures meet, which is something EA course designers are able to do with their version of the CA.

But also, with the demise of Links and the growth of console/online gaming, EA was obviously beginning to head in a new direction. The console version of the TW series was allowed to morph into a kiddie's toy. Serious cyber golfers understand the game was a joke for years. And at the same time, while all that effort was intentionally being put into turning the console version of the TW series into an arcade game for young people, EA also made the choice to systematically remove all the sim options and features from the PC game which helped make it popular with the adult cyber golfing community.

The one oversight I made in my future vision of cyber golfing was that I thought EA would ditch the CA and begin selling EA-created course-packs to PC gamers, now that Links/Microsoft was out of the picture. I didn't anticipate the complete demise of PC golfing as we have known it. But then again, this new online golfing component EA has set up, has the same potential: render the CA redundant, and have PC users pay for extra content (courses, clothing, clubs) created by EA designers.

[DivotMaker]

Re: I would own all the DLC courses...

Sorry, I don't understand that. That option was already in the game back in 03-04: a season-create feature that allowed the user to select which course he/she wished to use for each tournament. The season-create feature also allowed the user to set weather conditions, pin location, number of rounds, course conditions, etc. Yet all of that was removed from the game.

I am referring to the Course Utilities feature which was the IP of Headgate Studios. When Headgate no longer developed the game, the CU was taken out. The Season editor was first introduced in TW06 and removed from TW07. There never was a Season editor before that. I have no idea why it was removed, but I agreed with everyone that it should have stayed in the game.