OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

[DivotMaker]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

He's essentially defending the POV that spending additional money in order to fully play a career mode that's missing 25% of its content, is not only entirely okay, but that people who can't appreciate that are nothing more than complainers. And you're applauding that.

It's game over folks. The corporations have won. Black is white, down is up, and we're their smiling, submissive credit card-carrying flunkies.

So for those who try and think further ahead than, you know, tonight's supper, you understand where this is headed, right?

Madden NFL 12 -- Includes 10 unique and generic stadiums to play in! (Real stadiums available as DLC at a nominal fee.)

NHL 13 -- Battle your way though the long and gruelling 82-game season! (Playoff and Stanley Cup game action available as DLC for an additional cost.)

Actually that last one has already happened. EA put out Road to the World Cup, but didn't allow the User to actually compete in the World Cup final!

Wake up and smell the coffee, people. Or happily grab your credit cards. (Whichever applies to you.)

HUGE difference between Madden, NHL, etc and Tiger Woods. The stadiums are part of the licensing for each sport. There is nothing in the PGA TOUR license for Tiger that all PGA TOUR courses are in the game. If this were the case, then EA would have been using ALL the courses since PGA TOUR Golf for the Sega Genesis. Each TW 360/PS3 course is between 150-250 MB in sixa, FAR larger than what a stadium file size would be and EA also has to go to each course, laser-scan, GPS and then create the course. And oh BTW, they have to negotiate a LICENSE for each real course in the game. This is probably one of the larger expenses for TW that other games do not have to deal with both from a monetary and personnel perspective. Comparing PGA TOUR courses to stadiums is really nowhere near an apples to apples comparison, nice try though.

[sroz39]

This DLC thing gets beaten to death every single year. Thing is, the facts don't change. There's nothing to debate. Guys compare the Wii TW to the 360/PS3 TW. That's not even apples and oranges. Its worse. The size of a course on the Wii Tiger doesn't even come close to the 150MB MINIMUM that it is on the 360/PS3. They can't fit anymore courses on a 360 disc.

"But a Blu-Ray disc can hold so much more" is what I've seen in this thread. No doubt. But EA can't, in any sensible business scenario, make the PS3 version more appealing than the 360 version for the same price. They have too many fans of the game who play it on the 360. They can't offer a PS3 version for $60 that has 30 courses and a 360 version for $60 that has 15/16. Might as well kiss your relationship with MS goodbye. Even still, they offered a Collector's Edition on the PS3 for $10 more with 5 additional courses ($2 a course!).

Every year, there seems to be a thread like this and every year but this one, we've had a legitimate complaint. This year, we got cheaper courses, available on Day One AND they are able to be used in Career Mode? I see NO reason for complaints, despite the less-than-ideal manner in which the courses get included in Career Mode. Definitely not a gamebreaker.

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[kerosene31]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I wonder why they added the DLC courses to career mode? What made them change this?

Oh yes, because the community has been asking for this for years.

Rather than get "upset" people need to make informed decisions. The included course list is not kept secret.

This year I am skipping TW12 and just sticking with TW11 since I already have most of the DLC for that. Nothing against those that are buying it either.

[peigone]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

Oh yes, because the community has been asking for this for years.

No, the community has been asking for years for EA to put the career mode customization features back in the game that they removed several years ago.

Adding empty tournament slots for DLC to career mode -- calendar dates that remain unplayable until you purchase the appropriate courses -- is manipulative at best. Why do you think EA would choose to go that route, instead of simply putting those customization features back in the game that would allow us to select and assign which courses we wish to play in career mode tourneys? BECAUSE THEY CAN SELL MORE COURSES THAT WAY, is why.

How many gamers are going to play years of career mode, staring at empty tourney slots that are missing courses they know are available for sale online? How long will it be before they break down and just buy the damn things because they're sick of having to skip a half dozen career mode tourneys each year? As I said, manipulative at best. Well thought out, clever, and manipulative.

[Whitesox]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

This DLC thing gets beaten to death every single year. Thing is, the facts don't change. There's nothing to debate. Guys compare the Wii TW to the 360/PS3 TW. That's not even apples and oranges. Its worse. The size of a course on the Wii Tiger doesn't even come close to the 150MB MINIMUM that it is on the 360/PS3. They can't fit anymore courses on a 360 disc.

"But a Blu-Ray disc can hold so much more" is what I've seen in this thread. No doubt. But EA can't, in any sensible business scenario, make the PS3 version more appealing than the 360 version for the same price. They have too many fans of the game who play it on the 360. They can't offer a PS3 version for $60 that has 30 courses and a 360 version for $60 that has 15/16. Might as well kiss your relationship with MS goodbye. Even still, they offered a Collector's Edition on the PS3 for $10 more with 5 additional courses ($2 a course!).

Every year, there seems to be a thread like this and every year but this one, we've had a legitimate complaint. This year, we got cheaper courses, available on Day One AND they are able to be used in Career Mode? I see NO reason for complaints, despite the less-than-ideal manner in which the courses get included in Career Mode. Definitely not a gamebreaker.

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The first two bolded phrases contradict each other, and the third is just wrong.

Missing out on potentially vital events because you haven't bought the DLC course is a huge deal.

[shigogouhou]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

Is it even possible to get all the trophies without buying the CE/DLC? I don't see how I can ever win the FedEx Cup or the #1 world ranking if I'm finishing dead last over 20% of the season.

[peigone]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

Is it even possible to get all the trophies without buying the CE/DLC? I don't see how I can ever win the FedEx Cup or the #1 world ranking if I'm finishing dead last over 20% of the season.

That is the killer issue that has been mentioned by at least a couple people on this thread, and that others here are choosing to simply ignore, lol. :wink:

[gritzblitz56]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

Is it even possible to get all the trophies without buying the CE/DLC? I don't see how I can ever win the FedEx Cup or the #1 world ranking if I'm finishing dead last over 20% of the season.

That's working under the assumption that a DNP is the same as finishing dead last. In the real FedEx Cup and World Golf Rankings, that's not remotely the case. No golfer plays every tournament. When Tiger was ranked #1 he played maybe half of the events.

I don't know how it works in the game but if the rankings treat a DNP the same as finishing last, then that's neither fair nor realistic.

[osubeavs721]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

That is the killer issue that has been mentioned by at least a couple people on this thread, and that others here are choosing to simply ignore, lol. :wink:

yeah thats because its a non issue. No golfer plays every single week and they win the fedex cup in real life. You dont have to have the DLC courses to win the FedEx. does it make it easier? of course but its not a gamebreaker or a mode unplayable.

BTW I love your high and mighty approach on this subject yet you are continually misinformed and making statements that are untrue and just speculation like the not being able to win the fedex cup if you dont buy the DLC.

[TajDeni]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I think ive read every post in this thread and I see that there are basically 2 camps of thought going on here....

what i dont understand and havent seen sufficiently addressed here from the "no reason to complain camp" is:

Since the main argument for DLC is the disk space, and the PS3 (supposedly) has enough space to house more courses, why dont EA just drop a 2 disk game for the 360?

where you have to download the additional courses to your hard-drive like how Oblivion handle their downloaded content (you load the extra content once but still play game content via the main disk)

I guess what im asking is what is a legit reason for having to pay for DLC at all in TWs. I know the obvious response is some form of capitalism, but it goes back to the fact that TW on the orginal xbox which had more space on the disk (i guess) used to included majority of these courses with the game. Guess at the end of the day aside from just wanting more money i dont see a legit reason why alot of these courses couldnt be included via a 2nd disk for free if space is the issue

i dont know how many actual golf courses in the world hold actual PGA event, but im guessing (and i could be wrong) that only a select few courses, in relationship to the total number, get to host PGA events every yr. why cant the courses that true golf fans really care about as far as career mode goes come with the game and other courses that are nice but on the outskirts of PGA events and fantasy courses be handled via DLC.

if DLC had to happen dont understand why it cant happen in this manner. that said im glad the prices atleast came down from previous yrs, guess thats a plus

[kerosene31]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

No, the community has been asking for years for EA to put the career mode customization features back in the game that they removed several years ago.

You still have to admit there's some irony here. :wink:

Those of us who have been more interested in online tournaments have been dealing with this for years.

It all gets back to my original point: do your homework before you buy. If I do buy TW12, I want DLC courses. Not having the option to expand the game is silly.

Don't buy a TW golf game and then be "shocked, surprised and offended" when DLC comes out. When I decide whether or not to buy a TW game, I factor that in with my purchase. This year I am most likely passing on TW12 and just continue with 11. Nothing against the game, I just don't think I will get my bang for the buck out of it after purchasing DLC.

[Blublub]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I bought the whole package of DLC last year and am pretty steamed that these have to be re-purchased at full price again this year. Angry enough to walk away from TW altogether. It's even more insulting when pretty much nothing much of note changes in the game itself anyway.

There is no reason why these couldn't be a one-time purchase that would work from year-to-year. Remember the old Links series? You bought a course once and they made sure it could be converted to work even with new games in the series.

[Zalf]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I think ive read every post in this thread and I see that there are basically 2 camps of thought going on here....

what i dont understand and havent seen sufficiently addressed here from the "no reason to complain camp" is:

Since the main argument for DLC is the disk space, and the PS3 (supposedly) has enough space to house more courses, why dont EA just drop a 2 disk game for the 360?

where you have to download the additional courses to your hard-drive like how Oblivion handle their downloaded content (you load the extra content once but still play game content via the main disk)

I guess what im asking is what is a legit reason for having to pay for DLC at all in TWs. I know the obvious response is some form of capitalism, but it goes back to the fact that TW on the orginal xbox which had more space on the disk (i guess) used to included majority of these courses with the game. Guess at the end of the day aside from just wanting more money i dont see a legit reason why alot of these courses couldnt be included via a 2nd disk for free if space is the issue

i dont know how many actual golf courses in the world hold actual PGA event, but im guessing (and i could be wrong) that only a select few courses, in relationship to the total number, get to host PGA events every yr. why cant the courses that true golf fans really care about as far as career mode goes come with the game and other courses that are nice but on the outskirts of PGA events and fantasy courses be handled via DLC.

if DLC had to happen dont understand why it cant happen in this manner. that said im glad the prices atleast came down from previous yrs, guess thats a plus

What would be EAs motivation to do this? The number of courses included with the game has been established for this console generation. The number of courses you get for $60 has been consistent on this generation of consoles. So unless a real competitor to TWPGA comes along with more included courses or EA becomes convinced there is a sizable group that isn't buying the game solely because of on disc course count there is zero business reason to do it.

The disc size excuse felt hollow when it was first used years ago. It was about $ then and it is about $ now. It isn't that shocking or outrageous. Now add in the facts that this year the DLC courses are much much cheaper, available from day one, and useable in career mode it shouldn't be hard to see why many aren't outraged with "not perfect but definitely better."

No one is blind to the blatant capitalism but many are intelligent enough to recognize what in my opinion is a net move in the right direction for DL courses. +1 for cheaper, +1 for day one, +1 career use, and -2 for forced buy or skip; adds up to a net gain on the topic of DL courses for many of us. Others will of course place different value on the various points and have different opinions. So far I am not seeing a concensus of opinion that this years DLC is unacceptable and that is what you would need to have any hope of forcing a change.

[DivotMaker]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I bought the whole package of DLC last year and am pretty steamed that these have to be re-purchased at full price again this year. Angry enough to walk away from TW altogether. It's even more insulting when pretty much nothing much of note changes in the game itself anyway.

There is no reason why these couldn't be a one-time purchase that would work from year-to-year. Remember the old Links series? You bought a course once and they made sure it could be converted to work even with new games in the series.

Nothing much of note has changed with the game?? I beg to differ.

There are plenty of reasons why these DLC courses are not a one-time purchase. A very large reason is because of the licensing agreements that EA has with real courses. EVERY version of TW that the course agrees to have in the game, there is a licensing fee that EA has to pay for those rights. You think EA is going to eat the cost of this without passing it on to consumers? And we are talking about an AVERAGE cost of $2.70 per course for courses that 8 years ago cost $20 EACH. Hell, a decent cheeseburger costs more than that these days and you get 10 minutes of enjoyment out if it and hours and hours of enjoyment out of each DLC course. EA is damned if they do and damned if they don't....

Course licensing has changed since the Links and Tiger PC days, so you can throw that argument out the window. Tiger also had a course converter, but you would not see features like those in this day and age...

[Wilk5280]

Re: OUTRAGE over DLC courses?

I get what you are saying EG. For me the fact that DLC courses are a part of a career mode and if you don't pay for them you can't play parts of a mode of the game you already paid for. That to me is tough to swallow as a consumer of past TW games.

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Sounds like to me EA was in a lose-lose situation. People were upset that we couldn't use DL'd courses in our careers. Now we can and people are mad that you see the hole in your calendar if you don't download.

Sorry, but I'm much happier that we now have the option to use DL'd courses as part of our careers. MUCH HAPPIER.