Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Seems like I get into the asme argument with the EA Sports guy who posts here every year, but I still don't see why they couldn't use a model like the old Access/Microsoft Links game on PC. There you bought a course once and used it each year. You could retain the same level of graphic detail from year to year and would have the option to repurchase if they made significant improvements in the future. Great marketing model to get folks to buy new editions of the core game, as once you have that initial investment in courses you'd love to try them out with the new engine. EA's model is exactly the opposite - with no incentive for past course purchases there is, for me at least, little incentive to purchase the new game and all the DLC again each year. Particularly when the core mechanics have been largely the same for years. I could care less about competing as the toddler Tiger Woods - it's the courses that matter to me.

And I haven't followed that closely, but someone please tell me they restored the ability to save/upload shot replays. Facepalm over that being taken out in 13...

Not sure there is any arguing going on, but below is one of my responses to you last year and it still pertains today as well as the posts I have made in this thread.

Nothing much of note has changed with the game?? I beg to differ.

There are plenty of reasons why these DLC courses are not a one-time purchase. A very large reason is because of the licensing agreements that EA has with real courses. EVERY version of TW that the course agrees to have in the game, there is a licensing fee that EA has to pay for those rights. You think EA is going to eat the cost of this without passing it on to consumers? And we are talking about an AVERAGE cost of $2.70 per course for courses that 8 years ago cost $20 EACH. Hell, a decent cheeseburger costs more than that these days and you get 10 minutes of enjoyment out if it and hours and hours of enjoyment out of each DLC course. EA is damned if they do and damned if they don't....

Course licensing has changed since the Links and Tiger PC days, so you can throw that argument out the window. Tiger also had a course converter, but you would not see features like those in this day and age...

If you don't like the answer, fine. However, making the same claims each year does nothing to justify your position. Show me ANY Links PC version that came with 20-25 courses on the CD/DVD (six for PC and 6 for Links 2004 for XBox....comparing Links PC to a console game is disingenuous at best as it is apples versus apples and licensing has changed which has a COST no matter who the developer/publisher is. EA nor any other publisher is going to eat the cost of licensed courses.

Show me ANY current Golf game (Hot Shots Golf, John Daly Prostroke, etc) that ships with more than SIX courses....how many DLC courses available for HSG? One, maybe two? Why didn't they allow their DLC to come from previous versions? How many DLC courses did JDPSG offer? Not sure if they offered any. You can spin your argument any way you want, but avoiding the facts is not the answer.

[kickingguru]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Let me just add.... Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War, ect... will make you pay for the exact same maps one year to the next. No freebies in those games either...... They do not even have to license those...

[ndhalogod]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

For me, Tiger Woods is an every 2-3 year purchase. It's not because I hate EA or feel ripped off, golf games just don't lose their luster annually like many other titles.

'12 was a must own due to Augusta for me, and I'm really liking the '14 course offerings, as Muirfield Village is a personal favorite of mine. So I'm all-in for this year's game. My next buy of the series will probably be the second game on PS4/720, once they have the inevitable kinks worked out.

The only real way to constructively voice your displeasure with the DLC situation is to just not buy the game. Trolling every thread in this forum is weak sauce and makes me wonder if the complainers even have the integrity to not buy the game that they're ripping.

[Danimal]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Easy on the tone in her guys. People are allowed to express their opinions without getting blasted. Both positive and negative. Keep in mind trolling it not just reserved for the guys who post negatively.

For my own two cents on the topic. The argument over paying for courses is silly to begin with, that ship has long since sailed.

Once golf games left the mod friendly PC market there is no reason not to charge people for courses even if there weren't licensing cost involved.

Unfortunately the days of replicating a PGA season and playing on every course are long gone. Do the benefits out weight the loss of those free courses and course architects? That is a whole other discussion for a different day.

The fact we're getting 25 courses this year should make up for the loss of free ones. My earlier point was not a complaint on DLC, heck I buy it every year. I was just pointing out the reasoning seemed sketchy.

In my opinion this is a make or break year for Tiger Woods. They are adding more sim features, loading with courses etc. If the sales remain low who knows if we even get a game next year.

[Danimal]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Again for clarity.

If you feel a post is against TOS report it. That is all I am asking. It's suppose to be a big news day fo TW lets keep it civil.

[Hollywood88]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Does anyone know how sales of TW games have been the last 5 years?

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Does anyone know how sales of TW games have been the last 5 years?

From what I've read, there has been a pretty steep decline in sales since Tiger 10.
There was a slight recovery in '12 with the introduction of the Masters, but then there was significant drop in '13. It will be interesting to see if the vastly expanded play and presentation options in Tiger 14 turns the trend around.

[Mt Oread]

The problem is, golf needs to be an annual release less than any other sport. It's not like they even do realistic ratings that are updated from year to year.

TW 10 was a seriously good game, and was really the first golf game of this gen to really excel. While TW 11 was a significant upgrade, for most gamers, there really wasn't a need to upgrade to the new version. And if folks bought courses, there was a huge disadvantage to upgrading. Sales tanked, but it wasn't a quality issue.

I thought the last two releases really suffered in terms of game play, as EA convinced themselves that TrueAim drove gamers off. While it looks like the new sim difficulty is going to bring me back, I don't expect the final release in this gen to be the one to regain TW 10's sales numbers.

I just hope they leave the new sim difficulty in for the next gen version. I do believe that the high cost of DLC courses persuades a higher % of gamers to buy the game once every few years, if not just once a generation. While we may be hardcore here, we are not the target audience.

[stormjr]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

I do believe that the high cost of DLC courses persuades a higher % of gamers to buy the game once every few years, if not just once a generation. While we may be hardcore here, we are not the target audience.

Here is where I get confused. There has yet to be a TW game where the DLC was necessary. Why would the cost of optional DLC persuade the average gamer to NOT buy it. For me, it screams ignorance. The fact that they DON'T know that you can play the game as intended without the DLC.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

I don't think the TW series is in any jeopardy of going away anytime soon. I read somewhere that TW12 had set sales records with the introduction of Augusta so last year would have been a hangover year sales wise but also remember the Wii version was stopped so that would have affected TW13 sales.

More and more licensed courses are made available each successive year and more pros are in it so it doesn't look like their budget is being cut in any way or a game that's in trouble. The devs on the EA board have never hinted that the future is in jeopardy and keep talking about things they are planning for future versions and golf would seem to be a game that will greatly benefit from next Gen systems with their greater memory.

I guess a telltale sign will be TW15, I read somewhere that the licensing with Augusta was 3 years so if the Masters is dropped next year then that would be a sign that the game could be in trouble if they don't renew the contract because I would think keeping Augusta would be top priority unless they can no longer afford to.

[Mt Oread]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Here is where I get confused. There has yet to be a TW game where the DLC was necessary. Why would the cost of optional DLC persuade the average gamer to NOT buy it. For me, it screams ignorance. The fact that they DON'T know that you can play the game as intended without the DLC.

Because if the average gamer spent $20-$60 on DLC courses, he is going to be far more inclined to stick with the old game than buy a new one with half the courses for another $60. If we are talking about buying the courses every year, then TW is the most expensive video game on the market.

And TW is not a game that needs to be bought every year. There is no roster update, and for the average gamer, there is not much different at all.

[stormjr]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Because if the average gamer spent $20-$60 on DLC courses, he is going to be far more inclined to stick with the old game than buy a new one with half the courses for another $60. If we are talking about buying the courses every year, then TW is the most expensive video game on the market.

And TW is not a game that needs to be bought every year. There is no roster update, and for the average gamer, there is not much different at all.

But that's my point. DLC is NOT needed to play the game. Just like buying map packs for Halo is NOT needed to play that game.

Do they add to the long term playability? Sure. But in the end they are not required to play. There is nothing anywhere in the game that says that a gamer has to purchase the DLC to continue playing. Nor does it give other gamers who have bought the DLC an advantage.

If it was the other way around and there was (for some reason) a requirement to purchase the DLC, then I would agree 100%. But in the end, it is the 'average gamers' choice to supplement the game with DLC. They are not required to purchase the DLC.

[Mt Oread]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

Do they add to the long term playability? Sure.

This is why. Sure, they can buy the new game for $60 and play the new hotness with 1/2 the courses. Or, they can play last year's game, which now has double the number of courses, and pay nothing.

The hardcore guy buys the new hotness. The average dude that just thinks having a golf game for his console is cool, which is 95% of the market, will see more value in playing the game in which he already invested money in courses. The old game is still fun. He doesn't read OS and gets inundated with news about new features.

I'm not saying he can't play the new game and have fun without the DLC. I'm saying he already owns a game he enjoys with more courses.

But feel free to explain why you think the sales tanked for TW 11 and TW 13. My theory is that golf not a game that strikes most as needing to be an annual purchase, and and EA bleeds this game for more money, which makes skippoing a year or two even more attractive.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

But feel free to explain why you think the sales tanked for TW 11 and TW 13. My theory is that golf not a game that strikes most as needing to be an annual purchase, and and EA bleeds this game for more money, which makes skippoing a year or two even more attractive.

EA is not "bleeding this game for more money". They release a version every year which is part of the licensing agreements they have with the PGA TOUR, etc. This is why EA tries new features every year to see what will grab the attention of more gamers and golf fans. Plus, there have been enough new features each year that it is not the same game every year, IMO. Some of the new features are subtle, but some are not such as TruAim, the TSC Total Swing Control from last year and August for TW12. Some features are a bust like the caddy in 12, the Tiger legend thing in 13. They are committed to trying new things to keep users coming back for more. TW14 will introduce more new features from a gameplay and presentation perspective than any other version I can remember. Keep in mind, they have not released very much information and very few videos of TW14 so far.

[stormjr]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Removes Course Mastery System, Will Use Traditional DLC

This is why. Sure, they can buy the new game for $60 and play the new hotness with 1/2 the courses. Or, they can play last year's game, which now has double the number of courses, and pay nothing.

The hardcore guy buys the new hotness. The average dude that just thinks having a golf game for his console is cool, which is 95% of the market, will see more value in playing the game in which he already invested money in courses. The old game is still fun. He doesn't read OS and gets inundated with news about new features.

I'm not saying he can't play the new game and have fun without the DLC. I'm saying he already owns a game he enjoys with more courses.

But feel free to explain why you think the sales tanked for TW 11 and TW 13. My theory is that golf not a game that strikes most as needing to be an annual purchase, and and EA bleeds this game for more money, which makes skippoing a year or two even more attractive.

You're not getting my point, so I'll just stop.

I would love to see the sales numbers for DLC. I'm guessing the 'average dude' doesn't buy $50 worth of DLC. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the 'average dude' only buys a few courses if any.