PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

[Dawgfan1]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

That's how it works on EA golf too. Using VC to enter daily tournaments so you could earn tickets to enter weekly and seasonal tournaments. And if you run out of them as some were entering those tournaments numerous times to post a top score, they had to use real money to buy tickets.

EA’s weekly and seasonal tournaments gave good VC rewards for most finishers though, in their case the VC requirement to enter daily tournaments was paid back through the weekly and seasonal tournament rewards. It allowed you to pile up VC in that game. Whereas with 2K’s version you’re paying VC to enter tournaments but not getting any back specific to the mode (25 VC as a participation reward every 5-10 tourneys doesn’t count), at least at this point.

[scagwi]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Yeah but NBA 2K doesn't do this. They just screw you from the start haha.

LOL!

[bigkev]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

EA’s weekly and seasonal tournaments gave good VC rewards for most finishers though, in their case the VC requirement to enter daily tournaments was paid back through the weekly and seasonal tournament rewards. It allowed you to pile up VC in that game. Whereas with 2K’s version you’re paying VC to enter tournaments but not getting any back specific to the mode (25 VC as a participation reward every 5-10 tourneys doesn’t count), at least at this point.

Just brutal what 2K is doing.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Just gonna say it here...given what I've heard, I am 100% sure they won't go back to what VC was in early access, and I think they'll instead look for ways to incorporate new VC earns into the existing ecosystem instead of really changing anything.

For example... I'd look for things more like 2x VC events than for an adjustment to the current VC earnings per round or in Quests.

[Will I Am]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Just gonna say it here...given what I've heard, I am 100% sure they won't go back to what VC was in early access, and I think they'll instead look for ways to incorporate new VC earns into the existing ecosystem instead of really changing anything.

For example... I'd look for things more like 2x VC events than for an adjustment to the current VC earnings per round or in Quests.

That would be more than fair.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

That would be more than fair.

I think it's a nice idea to do something like that maybe in the short term, but it ultimately doesn't solve the issue of them shadow nuking VC with no warning on the night before the game's official release.

Personally, from conversations I've had, it seems to me that the 2K people don't really understand (or care) exactly why people are upset. I mean, they threw out a code for 600 VC when people started complaining, but 600 VC is really nothing with how they changed the economy in-game. And the code lasted for like 48 hours...not everyone even got to see it, since the code itself was only shared by content folks and NOT from any official 2K source.

Now, they're sitting back and waiting for "data" on what to do next, when they've been provided with a ton of user feedback and even some user research, case studies, and number crunching into how drastic their changes have been and how they are being perceived. People they use as NextMakers have presented tons of feedback on how their streams have gone, and how and why people are feeling upset about the changes.

But their best potential ideas to consider are all short-term options that don't address the deeper issues their actions have caused. A weekend where VC is handed out at a 1.5x rate? Giving VC out to course designers who get their course to a certain amount of plays? That doesn't look at the whole picture.

They cannot see the forest for the trees.

[scagwi]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

They cannot see the forest for the trees.

The old Upton Sinclair quote comes to mind

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

[AlanBer]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

I think it's a nice idea to do something like that maybe in the short term, but it ultimately doesn't solve the issue of them shadow nuking VC with no warning on the night before the game's official release.

Personally, from conversations I've had, it seems to me that the 2K people don't really understand (or care) exactly why people are upset. I mean, they threw out a code for 600 VC when people started complaining, but 600 VC is really nothing with how they changed the economy in-game. And the code lasted for like 48 hours...not everyone even got to see it, since the code itself was only shared by content folks and NOT from any official 2K source.

Now, they're sitting back and waiting for "data" on what to do next, when they've been provided with a ton of user feedback and even some user research, case studies, and number crunching into how drastic their changes have been and how they are being perceived. People they use as NextMakers have presented tons of feedback on how their streams have gone, and how and why people are feeling upset about the changes.

But their best potential ideas to consider are all short-term options that don't address the deeper issues their actions have caused. A weekend where VC is handed out at a 1.5x rate? Giving VC out to course designers who get their course to a certain amount of plays? That doesn't look at the whole picture.

They cannot see the forest for the trees.

Everyone is upset over VC. They scaled it back because it was initially way to high.

Seriously, it's silly and it's time to move on. The game is really very, very good. Am I supposed to bash this game generally because of some childish reaction to something is dumb as how much VC is fair?

Quit whining and play the game. To me 50 VC for finished a round is fair enough. All this is just mob mentality-- it's cool to complain about VC.

[Dawgfan1]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Everyone is upset over VC. They scaled it back because it was initially way to high.

Seriously, it's silly and it's time to move on. The game is really very, very good. Am I supposed to bash this game generally because of some childish reaction to something is dumb as how much VC is fair?

Quit whining and play the game. To me 50 VC for finished a round is fair enough. All this is just mob mentality-- it's cool to complain about VC.

If you personally don't care much about the VC situation and just want to enjoy the game, that's fine. But me - I'm seeing loads of people who started playing the game on Friday who are sitting on dozens of AP that they can't apply becuase they don't have the VC for it, unless they pay up of course. You have to play 59 holes to get the VC to apply one AP, around 1-1.5 hours of playtime. That is a busted system, and for me personally it's not something I can just get over especially when the system was more fair before (even if too easy to get VC). Moving on will only allow 2K to continue to move this game down the road of being more pay to win every iteration like every other sports game has gone (granted I think it's inevitable to some extent). It's not childish to want games to not push their consumers towards spending extra money for VC on top of the $70-120 they already spent.

Also to be specific, I've estimated they removed ~90-95% of the VC you could earn in the game, mostly quest rewards before, along with raising prices of pretty much everything by 10-40%. That's not a scaling back, it's a nuke. I wish they had just scaled it back, I'd be way less negative if it was just that.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Everyone is upset over VC. They scaled it back because it was initially way to high.

Seriously, it's silly and it's time to move on. The game is really very, very good. Am I supposed to bash this game generally because of some childish reaction to something is dumb as how much VC is fair?

Quit whining and play the game. To me 50 VC for finished a round is fair enough. All this is just mob mentality-- it's cool to complain about VC.

VC is the lifeblood of this game. It's used for nearly everything. They made a massive mistake with how easy it was to get in Early Access, and actually scaled it back from 126 per round to 90 per round during Early Access. That was fine, and I'd like to see it go back to 90/round.

What they did before standard launch was not "scale it back"...they blew it up, and made the standard edition adopters pay (literally and figuratively).

Those quests that used to give you VC in Early Access? GONE.

Those attribute points that cost 125? Now 175! The 5-year-old clubs in the shop? Raise the price 40%!

They upped the entry fee of Ranked Tour events...and you don't get VC as a reward for playing it! Pay 50 to get 54 in return and come out 4 VC ahead...use a consumable ball, and you're LOSING VC effectively!

I love how the game plays and I still play it every day.

But my goodness, sitting back and saying that this practice is OK and that anyone complaining about it is only doing so because of "mob mentality" and we should just move on (in a forum thread here with an actual OS article with the term "VC Greed" in it's title)?

Nah.

[Will I Am]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Humbug. People are pissed only because some early access users managed to get their player to a high level. If every player out there was a 65 would there be all this outrage, I doubt it.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Humbug. People are pissed only because some early access users managed to get their player to a high level. If every player out there was a 65 would there be all this outrage, I doubt it.

Well, I am a Early Access player with a 93 OVR player, and this isn't sitting well with me. And I don't know why content people like Respawn, Seamount, and ApexHound would be upset about it then, either, when they got the game one week before Early Access, too.

[MTLExpos4Ever]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

What's funny is "back in the day", someone bringing a player or team created to be superhuman 99 or such rating was seen as a cheat and a cheeser, and quite frankly, quite the *****. Now, it seems a lot of sports gaming developers practically promote this. Take The Show and Diamond Dynasty. I wasn't a big Show player, but when I saw this I couldn't help but shake my head and think these companies have caved into the cheaters/cheesers because they were gonna do it regardless.

I'd rather play with a "society" or league of guys not ramping anything up at all and just going with a given archetype. 99.9999% of us are not this good at golf and it should be difficult, but modern audiences won't stand for it. This and guys getting bunched up about the wrong cleats or a certain brand name shirt or sunglasses not being available or looking slightly off makes me cringe even more.

[scagwi]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

Whether you care or not about the VC rugpull, I don't think it's in anyone's interest to just dismiss it away.

As Beach has pointed out, VC is embedded in as the lifeblood of the game architecture.

I remain really disappointed we don't have EA still in the mix, just to provide a counterbalance and competitive option.

Having only one Dev in the space means they can do anything they want and get away with it.

[bigkev]

Re: PGA 2K25 Can't Squander Hot Start With VC Greed

What's funny is "back in the day", someone bringing a player or team created to be superhuman 99 or such rating was seen as a cheat and a cheeser, and quite frankly, quite the *****. Now, it seems a lot of sports gaming developers practically promote this. Take The Show and Diamond Dynasty. I wasn't a big Show player, but when I saw this I couldn't help but shake my head and think these companies have caved into the cheaters/cheesers because they were gonna do it regardless..

It's all about the business... Pay to Win. Pay or be a jabroni when playing online.