WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

[Xx 74 xX]

Well,

I can safely say i'll be at default for my career. I decided to give this a test, and I was EXTREMELY excited at the prospects regarding 'competition' with the AI.

I decided to get a feel for this at Daytona. I figured it would be good test from a 'speed' perspective, and it was.

I qualified 5th, and seized the lead on the backstretch of lap 4. While opening a near 2-3 second lead on the field, I feared I would be yawning in the next few laps, coasting to victory.

WRONG!

During the next few laps, I was constantly getting pushed by the CPU, assuming the drivers that drafted were able to close the gap. As I continued to hold a slight lead in I believe lap 15, I noticed coming out of turn 1 that Tony Stewart was trying to manuever inside to overtake him. I kept him pinned behind me, but while we were coming out of turn 2, he nudged my bumper, and shot me to the apron! At that point, making sure I didn't pass him under the yellow line, I backed off a bit, and 12 other cars flew by, leaving me in 14th place.

I continued a few more laps, and got spun out once again coming out of turn 3, when someone forced a bad position, and we went 3 wide.

I stopped the race, and came here to post my findings. The cool thing is I have my Performance Point Profile saved on my memory card, so anytime I want to get 'faster' for online racing, I can do so, and then load my HD Profile for my career.

The days of 'yawning' are over for me.

[catcatch22]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

I am doing the same. I will use performance points but only those earned during my career races through my contracts with teams and sponsors. That way its much more realistic, competitive and fun.

[TCrouch]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Curious as to what happens at the non-plate tracks. You can yard the field with PP on at Daytona and Dega, but the AI are far more competitive elsewhere. I'd like to know how it goes at Cali, Bristol, Richmond, Phoenix, etc.

[av7]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

I am doing the same. I will use performance points but only those earned during my career races through my contracts with teams and sponsors. That way its much more realistic, competitive and fun.

That's what I was thinking since I don't really enjoy the challenges (dodging the wreck in time with no damage, hate that).

But I'm with TC on how the default settings perform on other tracks before I start all over

[p_rushing]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

I've only had the game for a few weeks and have only been able to play a few hours on the weekends so far, so my cars are close to 50. At Daytona, my truck was below a 65 rating. I was racing at 25% with 4x. I set the AI to hard with everything except auto tran off. I qualified #1 using the default veteran setup. I led all the laps until the first pit stop. I waited until most of the cars had pitted, maybe 2 laps after the first car stopped. After pitting I came out 5th with about 6 laps left. The next time around I passed 2 cars who were pitting, so that left me 3rd. I was able to catch up to the 2nd place car and we drafted together allowing me to get to the 1st place car who had no drafting help. The pit stop really spread everyone out. So I pulled out and passed both of them once I got a great run.

Next was on to Cal and Atl. Hard will not work. At Cal, I had no shot. I qualified last and wasn't able to do anything. My setup may not of worked though so that might have had some issues. I was able to use some pit strategy by taking 2 right side tires and got up to the top 15, but then the truck was going away and I was trying to make it the last 10 laps. I thought I could get a top 20 or 25. With about 5 to go, I got sent spinning by a truck on the outside that hit my right rear.

I haven't run Atl yet, but I practiced and I couldn't keep up with them. I tried different things with the setup and tried following some other trucks' line, but it didn't work.

So I think it will work if you play plate races on Hard and others on Normal.

[Xx 74 xX]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Curious as to what happens at the non-plate tracks. You can yard the field with PP on at Daytona and Dega, but the AI are far more competitive elsewhere. I'd like to know how it goes at Cali, Bristol, Richmond, Phoenix, etc.

I'll know more by the end of this holiday weekend.

That said, there's been some talk regarding non-plate track racing............it seems that you'll get a much more competitive race with the AI on normal.

I'll post back as I progress through season 1, i'll be interested to see how many PP I gain during the season as I move up the 'sponsor/team' chain.

[mercalnd]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Curious as to what happens at the non-plate tracks. You can yard the field with PP on at Daytona and Dega, but the AI are far more competitive elsewhere. I'd like to know how it goes at Cali, Bristol, Richmond, Phoenix, etc.

I tried this. In Nationwide I was competitive at Daytona, finishing 6th. But when I hit California, Phoenix, Atlanta default performance points didn't seem to cut it. It's somewhat easier in trucks. Long story short I eventually decided to use performance points after seeing that I couldn't keep up on many tracks. As far as Bristol and Richmond are concerned I ran well at both but won neither though I did get the pole at Bristol twice but my car was rated around 65 by the time I ran these tracks. I couldn't pull away on either track.

Both Bristol races I dropped to 4th or 5th within a few laps. Richmond I qualified top 10 both times. First race I got up to 4th in the first race before spinning out on the last turn of the race. I finished 2nd the second time around, having a nice battle with Bowyer I think for first for the last 20 laps or so. I passed him two or three times but he would always get me back.

Phoenix was hell the first time with no performance points. At the end of the year my car was rated 68 or 70 and I ran better. I believe I was ran around 10th or 12th.

When I finished my Nationwide season I decided to try my hand at Cup. My car was somewhere between 68-70 in all categories and I qualified around 25th at Daytona. I got up to 15th until I made a bad move, got clipped and sent head-first into the wall which left me with a blown engine. I ran somewhere between 10th and 20th at California but not couldn't keep up at Vegas. All that with a car rated 70 across the board. So I doubt running Cup with default perfomance points would work.

I don't thinker much with setups I just run veteran an adjust a few things to address loose or tight conditions. I guess setup experts might have better results with lower rated cars. Also I run races without pit stops. I pick the longest race distance without a pit stop on normal wear so I still have to manage my tires. This is obviously not the most realistic way to race but it does have the advantage that my results are not affected by pit strategy which helps when trying to evealuate performance level with or without performance points.

[Xx 74 xX]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Note:

If you want to start your career in Sprint, you'll need to gain 2000 Rep BEFORE you commence your career to pickup a sponsor.

You can do this by racing 5 times in Race Now at, no other than Daytona.

[Flamehead]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

So I think it will work if you play plate races on Hard and others on Normal.

Is that the general consensus regarding AI difficulty? I keep going back and forth on this myself.

[catcatch22]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

You won't be the best car unless you come up with a great setup. At martinsville I won the pole and won the race but just working on the setup till it was exactly what I needed to win. You have to make alot of adjustments.

Performance points are more like assists, speed assist, grip assist, and damage assists. It hides the deficencies (it's spelled wrong I know) in your setup. Sort of like having traction control on in NR2003 season. When you turn all that stuff off, you are then faced with the "real setup".

[mercalnd]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

You won't be the best car unless you come up with a great setup. At martinsville I won the pole and won the race but just working on the setup till it was exactly what I needed to win. You have to make alot of adjustments.

Performance points are more like assists, speed assist, grip assist, and damage assists. It hides the deficencies (it's spelled wrong I know) in your setup. Sort of like having traction control on in NR2003 season. When you turn all that stuff off, you are then faced with the "real setup".

I'm not sure I agree with this. No amount of setup tweaking will increase your horsepower enough to be able to hang with the Cup guys on fast intermediate tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Vegas etc. if you have not spent any performance points. The AI in the trucks series is much easier to beat than in the Nationwide and Cup series.

The AI on Daytona and Talladega is a joke and should not be used as a barometer. Martinsville is one of those places where the driver makes much more difference than the car as top speed and aero are not much help there so I don't think this is a good test of whether a default 50-rated car/truck is enough to compete week in and week out. I think the best barometers are the 1.5 mile tracks as they necessitate horsepower/top speed and aero.

I do think the best approach for maximum enjoyment of the career mode is starting out in the truck with no performance points and only using performance points earned in that mode, just as you said earlier in the thread. My own experience described in my previous post makes me believe that being consistently competitive in the Nationwide and Cup series with 50-rated cars is next to impossible.

I must say they seem to have done a very decent job of making the AI incrementally harder between the series to balance the increase in performance points you get as you move up. I also like how you have to consider the objectives before choosing a sponsor and team as there's no use going with a set of objectives you have no chance of meeting as that will not get you anything and can even lose you some rep once you get to the higher level sponsors. Adds an element of strategy to career mode. Not terribly realistic but very well conceived overall.

[catcatch22]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

I wasn't talking about the cup cars, only trucks. I rarely raced the cup cars in NR2003 too just ran trucks and mods based off the trucks like the COT mod and the Aero Wars mod.

Did not touch any of the cup stuff much in this game. However by the time I reach cup I will probably have enough points to be somewhat competitive.

As for the 1.5 milers, your right you need some horsepower especially in the other series. I tried changing gears, rear wing and tape and it didn't help much at all when it came to straight line speed.

[Xx 74 xX]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

I'm not sure I agree with this. No amount of setup tweaking will increase your horsepower enough to be able to hang with the Cup guys on fast intermediate tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Vegas etc. if you have not spent any performance points. The AI in the trucks series is much easier to beat than in the Nationwide and Cup series.

The AI on Daytona and Talladega is a joke and should not be used as a barometer. Martinsville is one of those places where the driver makes much more difference than the car as top speed and aero are not much help there so I don't think this is a good test of whether a default 50-rated car/truck is enough to compete week in and week out. I think the best barometers are the 1.5 mile tracks as they necessitate horsepower/top speed and aero.

After doing some testing, I have to agree. I ran some good quals at both Auto Club, and Vegas with the AI on Hard, finished 43rd, a full second or two behind the leaders.

Conversely, with AI on Normal, I qualified 1st at both tracks.

Perhaps the best course of action, IF you want to start in the Sprint series is to disregard the 'yawning' victorys at the plate tracks, and dig in for the remainder.

Personally, I don't have any interest in racing in either the Trucks, or Nationwide series, so i'll try to get the most out of Sprint.:wink:

[mercalnd]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Perhaps the best course of action, IF you want to start in the Sprint series is to disregard the 'yawning' victorys at the plate tracks, and dig in for the remainder.

Well in that case you could always leave your Superspeedway attributes lower than the other categories. It's nice that you can modify the ratings for each type of track separately.

Either way I would advise testing ratings incrementally. Don't raise any attribute (especially Engine) too much before testing it since you could get too high and make most of your races boring because you'd pull away all the time. You can't reduce a rating once it's increased so be careful. You should be able to find a sweet spot for each type of track where most of your races are fun and competitive.

One last thing, I'm not convinced that "Race Now" mode is a good way to test your ratings, even if you use your own car. I used it a bit and things seemed different/harder once I went back into career mode.

[Xx 74 xX]

Re: WOW! - Offline Racing using DEFAULT Performance Points

Here's a good example the ramifications of DEFAULT PP's:

Auto Club (AI Normal) - Qualified 1st

As soon as the race starts, I fell back immediately, and I mean WAY back due to lack of horsepower.

That said, sure.............in a LONG race, I could probably make up the 8 second differential, but it doesn't seem 'right'.

So the choices are this:

1. Use Default PP's - Adjust each race AI difficulty to keep things 'real', while taking a season or so to get 'realistically' competetive
2. Use your maxed out PP's - Write off races such as Daytona, Talladega, etc.
3. Do all Driver Challenges over, leaving Superspeedway attributes at DEFAULT, while pumping up the other track type attributes with PP's

As much as I hate to do it, I believe i'll spend today re-doing the challenges.