What is it about the IRL you don't like?

[Chaos81]

Since we have quite a few people on here who don't like the IRL, why don't you like it? I'm talking strictly racing here, not, "tony george is an ***" and things like that.

What is it about the racing you don't like?

[Chaos81]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

What, nobody can give me a good answer?

[jcollins28]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

Here is why I do not care for the IRL.

1. *The first founding principle of the Indy Racing League, announced by Indianapolis Motor Speedway president Tony George in 1994, is “to establish and maintain a governing structure that represents all constituencies in the sport fairly and equitably.” “The IRL system took the bias out of racing,” Ungar said. “All the constituencies that make up racing must be benefited. When you have one entity, namely the league, making the decision and there is no vested interest in the outcome, except to benefit everyone, we think there’s a strong system in place to make decisions benefiting everyone’s future.”

The IRL took the bias out of racing?? Excuse me! No vested interest in the outcome?? Do Honda and Toyota know about this? I have a real problem with the "represents all constituencies in the sport fairly and equitably." Shortly after that statement, the IRL announced that there would be 25 spots in the 1996 Indy 500 reserved for IRL competitors only, thus making it nearly impossible for CART teams to compete. Fair? No. A giant hypocracy, yes. The IRL does nothing except contradict itself, becoming more and more of a CART copycat by the day.

2. *The Indy Racing League's second founding principle is possibly its most sweeping. Michael Andretti, a veteran open-wheel driver turned owner of Andretti Green Racing, summed up one aspect.

"It's as competitive a series as I've ever seen," he said. "You're running inches from each other. It's fierce, fierce racing. And you can't tell who's going to win until the last lap. You don't just have two cars; you have 10 fighting for the lead." "By having outstanding specifications created by (senior technical director) Phil Casey and (technical consultant) Les Mactaggart, we've increased the quality of race teams, engineers and drivers, and now we put one of the most competitive products on the racetrack in all of motorsports," said Brian Barnhart, the IRL's senior vice president of racing operations.

Manufactured results. Need I say more. The reason that the IRL is so "competitive" is because the rules do not allow for anything except a drafting parade. The wing angles are fixed, not allowing the teams to make changes to the aero package. All a driver has to do is plant his foot on the floor and turn left, then left, then left, then left, as the spotter yells clear, clear, inside, clear, outside, outside, clear. There is very little race craft required to be competitive in the IRL.

3. *With all the movement in open-wheel racing in the mid-1990s, the Indy Racing League's third founding principle didn't need much explanation.

In a letter to The Indianapolis Star published on Oct. 22, 1995, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and IRL president Tony George put it clearly: "There is much I would like to do in my life but I'll be unable to enjoy any of it if the '500' is not secure. That's why the Indy Racing League was formed. I felt the long-term protection of the '500' depended on a solid series of top-level, open-wheel oval-track races."

Let's back up the sanity bus for just a moment!! The security of the Indy 500? The 500 was getting massive worldwide media exposure, created by the international flavor of CART. With drivers named Mansell, Fittipaldi, Gugelmin, and DeFerran joining the Unser's, Andretti's, and other American drivers the sport was growing rapidly. At that time, CART was getting ratings equal to NASCAR, and was being viewed by F1 as a potential threat. The IRL was created because Tony George wanted to have soul control over open-wheel racing in the United States. Granted, CART had some teathing problems, but nothing that couldn't have been fixed, and fixed rather easily. Why else would the IRL have adapted so many of the practices of CART that they openly apposed in 1996. A perfect example would be engine leases.

4. *John Barnes was a longtime mechanic and crew chief when a unique opportunity came along in 1997.

"I was approached by Pennzoil to start a team," Barnes recalled. "The best thing I could do is have good people around."

He put together an Indy Racing League ownership group with Gary Pedigo, Doug Boles, Mike Griffin and former Indianapolis Colts quarterback Jim Harbaugh. Pennzoil Panther Racing's birth underscores the fourth IRL founding principle.

Panther not only showed up, but excelled. Scott Goodyear started as the team's driver and won three races. Then Sam Hornish Jr. posted eight wins over the 2001 and 2002 seasons and took home back-to-back IRL championships.

Let's take a look at the teams in the IRL. How many of these teams were in CART in the mid-90's when Tony George was busy telling everyone how awful and out of control it was? Penkse Racing, Ganassi, Rahal, Fernandez, and of course AGR to name a few. If Tony was so unhappy with the state of Champ Car racing, why did he go so far out of his way to recruit their teams. Sure, some of that had to do with money being thrown at the teams by Honda and Toyota, but that is another discussion altogether. Also, what ever happened to the "original" IRL teams? Ron Hemelgarn and John Menard had been fielding cars at the 500 for several years, competing with the CART regulars. They joined the IRL at the very beginning, along with others, such as PDM, Bradley, Logan, Treadway and others as well. None of these teams can be found on todays IRL grid, as they have been replaced by CART defectors. The IRL becomes more of IndyCART than "IndyCar" by the day.

5. The IRL race car. What the hell is it trying to be? With a long elongated nose that only an ardvark can love. The HUGE barn door rear wing . What's up with those side pods? THEY ARE HUGE BEYOND HUGE! The IRL car is just downright ugly! The damn thing has way way to much downforce and not enough horsepower Plus it sound just downright awful.

Well I think this sums it up pretty much if I can think of anything else I will let you know.

[TheLionKing]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

I don't have a problem with the racing, although the way they race on ovals, scares the crap out of me. My main problem with the IRL is Tony George and because of him, I could never support the IRL.

[Chaos81]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

Here is why I do not care for the IRL.

I'm not even going to bother reading what you posted. Glancing over it, you completly ignored the part where I said "racing".

I don't have a problem with the racing, although the way they race on ovals, scares the crap out of me. My main problem with the IRL is Tony George and because of him, I could never support the IRL.

I used to have a problem with Tony George, now, not so much. I still do, but I watch it because the racing is so exciting.

I didn't watch it to much until Michael Andretti bought out Barry Green. When he came over to the IRL is when I started watching more and more. The more I watch it, the more I love it.

[TheLionKing]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

I used to have a problem with Tony George, now, not so much. I still do, but I watch it because the racing is so exciting.

I didn't watch it to much until Michael Andretti bought out Barry Green. When he came over to the IRL is when I started watching more and more. The more I watch it, the more I love it.

This is going to sound extremely stupid.... but to me, TG is like the person that breaks up a perfectly good marriage. I just can't support it. Last year, I was offered free tickets and transportation to the 500, I had to turn it down because I couldn't see putting a dollar in TG's pocket for concessions and such.

I attend three Champ Car events a year. This year I plan on going to Cleveland, Toronto and Vegas. If Champ Car is still at Long Beach next year, I'll be there. As much as I love going to these events, I'd trade it in for the early 90's.... when people actually cared about the racing. There always seemed to such a buzz around the event at MIS or around Indy 500 time.... but now.... 33 is "just a number"...

[jcollins28]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

I'm not even going to bother reading what you posted. Glancing over it, you completly ignored the part where I said "racing".

That is to bad because you might have learned something. No I did not ignore the part were you said racing. You asked a question and I gave you a well thought out and detailed reason why on many different levels I do not like the IRL.

[Chaos81]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

That is to bad because you might have learned something. No I did not ignore the part were you said racing. You asked a question and I gave you a well thought out and detailed reason why on many different levels I do not like the IRL.

But you completly missed the point to my question.

I just read it, what was it I was supposed to learn?

[jcollins28]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

But you completly missed the point to my question.

I just read it, what was it I was supposed to learn?

Ok I will give you a cut down version of just the "racing" points.

1. Manufactured results. Need I say more. The reason that the IRL is so "competitive" is because the rules do not allow for anything except a drafting parade. The wing angles are fixed, not allowing the teams to make changes to the aero package. All a driver has to do is plant his foot on the floor and turn left, then left, then left, then left, as the spotter yells clear, clear, inside, clear, outside, outside, clear. There is very little race craft required to be competitive in the IRL.

2. The IRL race car. What the hell is it trying to be? With a long elongated nose that only an ardvark can love. The HUGE barn door rear wing . What's up with those side pods? THEY ARE HUGE BEYOND HUGE! The IRL car is just downright ugly! The damn thing has way way to much downforce and not enough horsepower Plus it sound just downright awful.

I like a good open wheel oval race just as much as the next guy but not the dumbed down IRL style of oval racing.

[pk500]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

JC:

Interesting points, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

If you don't like "manufactured results," then how do you justify the "Push to Pass" button and the red-wall "option" tires in OWRS? Are those not gimmicks manufactured to spice up the racing?

Take care,
PK

[Chaos81]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

1. Manufactured results. Need I say more. The reason that the IRL is so "competitive" is because the rules do not allow for anything except a drafting parade. The wing angles are fixed, not allowing the teams to make changes to the aero package. All a driver has to do is plant his foot on the floor and turn left, then left, then left, then left, as the spotter yells clear, clear, inside, clear, outside, outside, clear. There is very little race craft required to be competitive in the IRL.

If you think that aero is all there is to setting up a car, you need to study up a little bit. Let me guess, you prefer the push to pass button?

2. The IRL race car. What the hell is it trying to be? With a long elongated nose that only an ardvark can love. The HUGE barn door rear wing . What's up with those side pods? THEY ARE HUGE BEYOND HUGE! The IRL car is just downright ugly! The damn thing has way way to much downforce and not enough horsepower Plus it sound just downright awful.

You prefer the sound of a turbocharger? YUCK! I'll never understand why someone likes the sound of a turbo.

[pk500]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

I might get canned for saying this, but I love the sound of a turbo. I also love the sound of a normally aspirated car, too. But turbos, especially the F1 cars from the 1980s, sounded incredible.

Hell, I like the sound of WRC cars, and they're just little turbo-charged, 2-liter four-bangers generating 305 horsepower.

Take care,
PK

[Chaos81]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

I might get canned for saying this, but I love the sound of a turbo. I also love the sound of a normally aspirated car, too. But turbos, especially the F1 cars from the 1980s, sounded incredible.

Guess I should have clarified. I can't stand the sound of a turbo on a bigger racing engine. Like those of the F1 cars from the 80's or from OWRS today. I guess I'm strange, but I'd rather hear those cars at 15,000 RPM normally aspired instead of with the turbo.

Hell, I like the sound of WRC cars, and they're just little turbo-charged, 2-liter four-bangers generating 305 horsepower.

Those drive me even crazier. But hey, your opinion and your entitled to it.

About the only Turbo engine I like the sound of would be a 911. And that's probably only because I grew up with them.

[jcollins28]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

JC:

Interesting points, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

If you don't like "manufactured results," then how do you justify the "Push to Pass" button and the red-wall "option" tires in OWRS? Are those not gimmicks manufactured to spice up the racing?

Take care,
PK

I think you need to read up and learn about the Push To Pass button. It is not a magic button. Also it is only used on Road Course's not ovals. Plus the P2P button has been used in CART for a very long time as well as being used in Europe. They took it out in 02-03 then brought it back. The IRL has traction control and the fuel mixture joystick. What is your feeling on those items?

[jcollins28]

Re: What is it about the IRL you don't like?

If you think that aero is all there is to setting up a car, you need to study up a little bit. Let me guess, you prefer the push to pass button?

You prefer the sound of a turbocharger? YUCK! I'll never understand why someone likes the sound of a turbo.

I never said it was the only thing but on a Open Wheel formula car the wing angle is pretty big when it comes to the set up. As for P2P see my post. What is there not to like about the sound of a turbo?

Guess I should have clarified. I can't stand the sound of a turbo on a bigger racing engine. Like those of the F1 cars from the 80's or from OWRS today. I guess I'm strange, but I'd rather hear those cars at 15,000 RPM normally aspired instead of with the turbo.

The size of a CHAMP CAR engine is only 2650 cc. Smaller then a IRL mill.