Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

[Dudd]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Feels way, way too much like TS3. I played a decent amount of TS3 a year or so ago, and it just feels like the same game, just a bit quicker. Serving is still too easy, just hit a button and let go, you don't really have to worry too much about power or aiming, the return will generally be the same no matter what. Then just keep hitting slice shots back, eventually you'll open up an opportunity for a winner, which of course requires no finesse at all to make since you have virtually no chance of making an error on any shot. This was fun for a while back when I first bought TS3, but I got tired of it back then. It just feels so mechanical, I always know where I am in a point. There should be shots where I know I'm most likely going to make an error, but the only chance I have to get back in the point is to go for a low percentage winner down the line. There should be times in a rally where I have to risk hitting a ground stroke long to get back the upper hand, but to do it anyways because to do other wise is to eventually give my opponent the point. Instead I'm just slicing the ball constantly back over and over until my opponent gets tired and slows down enough to leave half the court open. Maybe the higher difficulty levels will fix this, but they didn't in TS3, and I'm not paying to find out if they do this time.

On a positive note, they did slightly improve the presentation. I don't know what reason they possibly could have for putting a giant CPU and 1P icon over each player before every point in TS3, but it's nice that they came to their senses and realized that it was ugly and we're smart enough to remember which player is ours. Crowds are better too.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Feels way, way too much like TS3. I played a decent amount of TS3 a year or so ago, and it just feels like the same game, just a bit quicker. Serving is still too easy, just hit a button and let go, you don't really have to worry too much about power or aiming, the return will generally be the same no matter what. Then just keep hitting slice shots back, eventually you'll open up an opportunity for a winner, which of course requires no finesse at all to make since you have virtually no chance of making an error on any shot. This was fun for a while back when I first bought TS3, but I got tired of it back then. It just feels so mechanical, I always know where I am in a point. There should be shots where I know I'm most likely going to make an error, but the only chance I have to get back in the point is to go for a low percentage winner down the line. There should be times in a rally where I have to risk hitting a ground stroke long to get back the upper hand, but to do it anyways because to do other wise is to eventually give my opponent the point. Instead I'm just slicing the ball constantly back over and over until my opponent gets tired and slows down enough to leave half the court open. Maybe the higher difficulty levels will fix this, but they didn't in TS3, and I'm not paying to find out if they do this time.

On a positive note, they did slightly improve the presentation. I don't know what reason they possibly could have for putting a giant CPU and 1P icon over each player before every point in TS3, but it's nice that they came to their senses and realized that it was ugly and we're smart enough to remember which player is ours. Crowds are better too.

I went back and played TS3 today and I have to say TS4 has improved a lot. The shots feel more natural, movement improved a lot.

If you're only going to use one button to play the game, on a low difficulty level it seems, then of course you're not going to get the most out of it. This game has a lot more depth than you give it credit for, but to each his own.

[Cro Morgan]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Feels way, way too much like TS3. I played a decent amount of TS3 a year or so ago, and it just feels like the same game, just a bit quicker.

The TS4 demo is absolutely nothing like TS3. Granted, the courts look similar, but the difference in the gameplay is night and day.

I think 2k nailed it this go around, if for no other other reason than the game is a blast to play. After all, when the dust settles, the fun-factor is all that matters!!

[Dudd]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I went back and played TS3 today and I have to say TS4 has improved a lot. The shots feel more natural, movement improved a lot.

If you're only going to use one button to play the game, on a low difficulty level it seems, then of course you're not going to get the most out of it. This game has a lot more depth than you give it credit for, but to each his own.

If the game was balanced properly, being able to use one shot for the bulk of every single rally shouldn't be a dominant strategy, even on a lower difficulty. Just compare the winners/unforced error ratio in the demo to real life tennis, I probably was around 7:1 all told when real tennis, a good day is anything above 1:1. I realize this is a video game and you get a little creative license to make it fun, but it's not even close, something like 2:1 winners/UE would be acceptable. Like I said, maybe it's fixed on a higher difficulty level, but I doubt it since strategy wise, TS3 played the exact same way no matter what the difficulty.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

If the game was balanced properly, being able to use one shot for the bulk of every single rally shouldn't be a dominant strategy, even on a lower difficulty. Just compare the winners/unforced error ratio in the demo to real life tennis, I probably was around 7:1 all told when real tennis, a good day is anything above 1:1. I realize this is a video game and you get a little creative license to make it fun, but it's not even close, something like 2:1 winners/UE would be acceptable. Like I said, maybe it's fixed on a higher difficulty level, but I doubt it since strategy wise, TS3 played the exact same way no matter what the difficulty.

Well it isn't a valid judgment IMO to play the game on a low difficulty and say the game is too easy for you, without at least giving a high difficulty a try. I'm assuming you played on easy or normal, without giving hard a try; if I'm wrong then correct me. If that's the case, it's akin to playing a game like NBA 2K11 on rookie and complaining that it's too easy to drive to the paint and score.

In any case, if you're not willing to fully explore the game and only use one button to play, then you're obviously a) not playing the game the right way, and b) not getting the most out of the game. But like I said, it's your judgment, just don't think you should come in and say it's the same as TS3 when a lot of others have noted the improvements just in this demo, and assuming there will be more in the retail version (as well as higher difficulty levels).

[Smallberries]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I can understand what Dudd is saying, and it was this arcadey experience that brought the gameplay down for me in TS3. However, I do think TS4 feels improved, at least in the groundies department on the hard level. Not impressed with serving, though. WAY too easy. Something they may consider doing next year is including a little shake or wiggle in the control on crucial points (a la a nervous pitcher in the MLB2k series) to make it more difficult and risky to go for wide or down-the-T serves.

In conclusion, I wanted to share an awesome point I had, which has almost sold me on this game alone. I was playing as Nadal and was in an extended rally with Federer from the baseline. He finally hit a short ball, which forced me/Nadal to the net to retrieve. My return to his backhand was fairly deep but not great, putting Federer in the driver's seat. He hit a massive crosscourt shot that would have won the point had it not tipped the net. Still, it managed to skip up and past me on my left, landing behind me and behind the service line. I ran back and retrieved it JUST before the second bounce and, woudn't you know it, my ball also tips the net, barely dribbling over to earn me the point. The whole thing ends with Nadal holding out his hand for the customary apology. Amazingly cool! It's stuff like that, in a brief 5-minute demo, that has me excited.

I still need to know that there's more depth and challenge in this year's single player experience before I commit to buying. I'll wait for the reviews. But I'm definitely hoping for good scores.

[Methlab]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

It's tough for me to take a guy seriously who says you can just slice and set up a winner and then admits he has not even played the hard mode yet. Plus, this game is online based this year so that strategy will not work against every human player. Also, the game is nothing like TS3 to me.

the demo is real fun..I am excited that we may finally have a good tennis game to play.

[at23steelers]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

It's tough for me to take a guy seriously who says you can just slice and set up a winner and then admits he has not even played the hard mode yet. Plus, this game is online based this year so that strategy will not work against every human player. Also, the game is nothing like TS3 to me.

the demo is real fun..I am excited that we may finally have a good tennis game to play.

Not to mention, I believe there are 2 higher difficulties than hard. I heard some people are dominating hard, but remember, this isn't the full version of gameplay, and hard isn't the hardest difficulty in the retail version.

[Dudd]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

All my impressions are from the hard difficulty, when I say maybe it's different on a higher difficulty I'm referring to those which aren't included in the demo. However, I went and played a set of TS3 on its very hard setting to reacquaint myself with it since it's been a while, and again the virtual complete lack of errors was the elephant in the room. I won one set 7-5, but had only 4 unforced errors the entire match (don't remember how many forced errors I had, they only track unforced) That's my fear for what the two harder difficulty levels are in this game, the AI gets more aggressive and moves you around the court more/hits more winners, but also makes a ton more errors, and all you have to do is outlast it because it's so difficult to make an error. I mean, I've played probably a dozen tiebreakers in the demo so far, and I haven't hit a single ball into the net. Not a one. I think I've hit one single shot long. The timing window on the shots are just way too generous, even when it says too early or too late, 95/100 the shot is ok, it just doesn't have as much speed or depth. If I'm trying to hit a deep shot or trying to hit the lines, getting the timing off should be a much bigger deal.

[jd@os]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I asked this question in the career thread, but does anyone know if you can take an existing pro into a career or do you have to play with a created player?

[rangerrick012]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I asked this question in the career thread, but does anyone know if you can take an existing pro into a career or do you have to play with a created player?

From the dev diaries it seems its only created players.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

I have a question too. What's the difference between an unforced error and a forced error? Because I was playing the demo on hard and I had a particularly grueling tiebreaker with Federer (I was Nadal) that ended with me winning 9-7 and I know Federer hit it out or into the net at least 4 of those 9 points but he only had 1 unforced error.

[jd@os]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

From the dev diaries it seems its only created players.

Thanks rangerrick.

I hate that because I don't like playing with created players. I know a lot of people do it, but I like "keeping it real." I play NBA 2K11 and never use "My Player", and I would like to have taken Agassi instead of a fake guy into a career on TS4.

[Dudd]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

Forced error is where you hit into the net because the other player made you stretch for a ball or do something else where it was hard to return, unforced error is just where you miss a shot. Just a judgment call basically.

[at23steelers]

Re: Top Spin 4 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions Here (360, PS3)

@Dudd: I know what you're saying, and I agree that there aren't nearly enough unforced errors, and should be a result from poor timing. In addition, I am a little worried that the CPU won't make ANY unforced errors in the toughest levels, seeing how they rarely make any in this demo. However, you have to remember this isn't the final product and hope that was all sorted out. Since I think the demo might have tried to target some of the casual crowd, maybe that was on purpose in the demo, but not so in the real game!