Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

[Dirty Turtles]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

The issue I see is with people who don't have the Internet, or people who do not have high speed Internet. There are more people out there with dial-up than we still think. Our DSL in this area isn't much better than dial-up.

[mestevo]

Easy to say now, what happens years down the line when servers get shut off and/or things start disappearing from servers? I can go hook up a 35 year old console and play a game, do you think I would be able to do that had those games been digitally distributed?

All things that happen already.

http://www.inquisitr.com/125942/ea-s...es-next-month/

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[Burns11]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

All things that happen already.

http://www.inquisitr.com/125942/ea-s...es-next-month/

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

You can still play those though, just not online.

[mestevo]

You can still play those though, just not online.

Ignoring that you're trying to compare games now to stuff like Pong... games disappear from current online services as well for a variety of reasons.

http://www.wpcentral.com/more-xbox-live-games-pulled-fast-furious-star-wars-battle-hoth-cantina

And while you contend it's not the same thing... a neutered game with no online might as well not even be purchasable. The BF and COD games only single player... yeah no, 'at least you can still play single player' doesn't really fly.

You can craft the hypothetical any way you want though, my original point is it's a psychological/educational barrier, when you buy a DVD or BD of a game, you're buying a license, not a piece of software, just as you are when you buy a game digitally.

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[p_rushing]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

The only way it works is if the game developers cut out the publishers and game stores. Give MS a small cut to host the game on their servers and it better not cost more than $30-35 for a new full game.

[Burns11]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

Ignoring that you're trying to compare games now to stuff like Pong... games disappear from current online services as well for a variety of reasons.

http://www.wpcentral.com/more-xbox-live-games-pulled-fast-furious-star-wars-battle-hoth-cantina

And while you contend it's not the same thing... a neutered game with no online might as well not even be purchasable. The BF and COD games only single player... yeah no, 'at least you can still play single player' doesn't really fly.

You can craft the hypothetical any way you want though, my original point is it's a psychological/educational barrier, when you buy a DVD or BD of a game, you're buying a license, not a piece of software, just as you are when you buy a game digitally.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

You know they still make single player games, right? And people still play single player games?

My 35 year old console was just an example of an aged console I have sitting on a shelf in the other room that will still work, imagine not being able to plug in a Dreamcast, for example, which would be all but plausible had it been digital distribution only.

All software has been issued on a licensing basis, but I can still take that license and play a game of Legend of Zelda on my NES. With a digital copy they can decide at any time that your license is moot once they shut down servers.

[mestevo]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

You know they still make single player games, right? And people still play single player games?

My 35 year old console was just an example of an aged console I have sitting on a shelf in the other room that will still work, imagine not being able to plug in a Dreamcast, for example, which would be all but plausible had it been digital distribution only.

All software has been issued on a licensing basis, but I can still take that license and play a game of Legend of Zelda on my NES. With a digital copy they can decide at any time that your license is moot once they shut down servers.

Maybe I am not understanding the point you are trying to make over, and over, and over... because I've shown you examples of games that would be borderline useless if their online component was shutoff, shown examples of games removed from the digital market(s) already that you can no longer download or purchase (but can still play if you had downloaded them) but you keep tweaking and restating this hypothetical about 'what could happen' - when it already does.

What is your point? Some anti-consumer console doomsday scheme where you might not be able to play your console 35 years later?

How does that change my point, that it's a psychological/educational (and convenience) issue about physical media, because right now you are only buying a license to play a game, and not the software itself.

You seem to assume all this digital content is being stored in a cloud that they could just shut off. That's not even the case now, I could put away my 360 for '35 years' and provided the electronics are in good working order fire it up and play all my 'single player' games to my heart's content - without even connecting to the internet.

Pretty sure we're even further off away from the draconian 'always have to be online, even for single player' DRM that has been used on PCs which you seem to be describing.

[Burns11]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

I don't understand why you think the minority of games rules every other example moot. There are plenty of single player games still being released, and had they been released digitally only you would be screwed once they shut servers down.

You can say "you don't actually own the software" all you want, but fact is you do own a physical copy of that software, and that's a distinction of note. It's the distinction between owning a license to use software that you can physically hold/protect and having a software license to software that is just gone on the whim of some corporation.

If you don't think that a download only console wouldn't work similar to Steam for DRM you are a fool and, yes, if Valve decided right now to shut off all the steam servers you would be shut off from all those steam games.

You say you can turn on the 360 years down the line and it will still work, but what happens when you have a mechanical failure in the HDD? What happens when you want to emulate that hardware and (legally) play transfer those games to be played on some other device?

[mestevo]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

I don't understand why you think the minority of games rules every other example moot. There are plenty of single player games still being released, and had they been released digitally only you would be screwed once they shut servers down.

So now your latest adjustment to the hypothetical, this only matters to the 'majority of games', ignoring the fact that the most popular and highest selling games are this 'minority' (the last couple Call of Dutys passing the debut revenue of any movie ever made even...) ?

You can say "you don't actually own the software" all you want, but fact is you do own a physical copy of that software, and that's a distinction of note. It's the distinction between owning a license to use software that you can physically hold/protect and having a software license to software that is just gone on the whim of some corporation.

I don't see the point of arguing this, I've already shown examples of this being done now and you've dismissed or ignored them. You're trying to debate the perils of the retirement of a console we know nothing about, I am not sure why.

If you don't think that a download only console wouldn't work similar to Steam for DRM you are a fool and, yes, if Valve decided right now to shut off all the steam servers you would be shut off from all those steam games.

I don't see why the name calling is necessary, I guess that's all you have left. The number of people with Wiis, 360s and PS3s is exponentially more than those who even have Steam accounts. To limit your customers to only be able to buy games digitally truncates your potential install base substantially which is why it won't work as early as this next generation, at least not exclusively.

You say you can turn on the 360 years down the line and it will still work, but what happens when you have a mechanical failure in the HDD? What happens when you want to emulate that hardware and (legally) play transfer those games to be played on some other device?

Apparently you didn't actually read my post, and missed the "the electronics are in good working order" part. Otherwise, how is this any different than what is happening now, with games that have already been removed?

I'm not sure why you continue to argue hypothetical on top of hypothetical about a console we know nothing about.

[Hooe]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

I'm all for digital distribution as a developer for obvious reasons, and also as a consumer under the condition that on-board storage space jumps for these devices jumps dramatically.

[mestevo]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

I'm all for digital distribution as a developer for obvious reasons, and also as a consumer under the condition that on-board storage space jumps for these devices jumps dramatically.

And reasonably so, the HDD prices from MS (prior to opening things up to allow thumb drives) and Sony's strategy for storage for the Vita are not so good.

[youvalss]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

Yikes! I only buy games at stores and don't even play online. I guess my gaming days are about to be over in a few years...?

I'd better find myself another hobby, a non-virtual one (and legal, of course!).

[Burns11]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

So now your latest adjustment to the hypothetical, this only matters to the 'majority of games', ignoring the fact that the most popular and highest selling games are this 'minority' (the last couple Call of Dutys passing the debut revenue of any movie ever made even...) ?

WTF are you talking about? Just because some games turn off some servers doesn't negate all the other games that don't depend on those. I'm not sure why one example negates all other exemplars of when games can be played decades in the future as long as you retain that physical copy.

I don't see the point of arguing this, I've already shown examples of this being done now and you've dismissed or ignored them. You're trying to debate the perils of the retirement of a console we know nothing about, I am not sure why.

Once again, just because you find some slim minority example doesn't negate the rest of the situation.

I don't see why the name calling is necessary, I guess that's all you have left. The number of people with Wiis, 360s and PS3s is exponentially more than those who even have Steam accounts. To limit your customers to only be able to buy games digitally truncates your potential install base substantially which is why it won't work as early as this next generation, at least not exclusively.

Oh just stop, nobody called you a name.

That aside, once again I have no idea what you are arguing here, I'm not even sure you know. Steam was brought up only as prime example of how a digital only service will work, and how that service would end access to any games should it disappear.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue hypothetical on top of hypothetical about a console we know nothing about.

All I am arguing are the perils of going solely digital distribution, and since we've yet to see that all we can argue is hypothetical. Bottom line I have a room full of games that represent thousands and thousands of dollars worth of investment that would, in all likelihood, no longer exist if things had been digitally distributed. They also retain thousands and thousands of dollars of value, value that would have evaporated had they been digitally distributed. So, no, your original statement that the only difference between physical and digital distribution is psychological is patently false.

[mgoblue]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

I'm all for digital distribution as a developer for obvious reasons, and also as a consumer under the condition that on-board storage space jumps for these devices jumps dramatically.

I'm right with you. Hard drives are so darn expensive nowadays that it's holding me back from wanting to get every game online.

They may start selling games on some sort of memory card similar to portable games (if they can get something cheap enough to be worth it).

Either way, i know it sucks if your HD gets full and I have to delete some games from being installed on my 360 (and that's just for improved performance). I went and got a bigger HD to solve that, but I'd hate to have to uninstall old games and have to re-download them later. That'd be the case unless they give us massive cheap storage.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Next Xbox To Have No Disc Drive

That article mentions it's "unconventional for MS." I disagree. I think this is possible because of Xbox Live. That service is strong enough now that it is substantial in that direct download is reasonable.

I don't see them doing it without another viable (hard copy) alternative, but removing the disc drive makes sense to me. At this point it just gets in the way. It won't be black and white like many will start claiming. There will be all sorts of things surrounding the option that will try and make it appealing.

It's not unconventional for MS though. They were the ones that introduced broadband only when 6-12% of households had broadband.