What do teachers really make?

[Skerik]

Traditionally regarded as woefully underpaid, teachers don't really appear to be so....

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26818

It's dry, so here's the meat of the interview....

First tell us: how much are teachers really paid?

Greene: According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), public school teachers earned, on average, $34.06 per hour in 2005. That is 36% more than the average white collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker, which are the categories in which the BLS places teachers. To give some examples, public school teachers are paid at a higher rate than architects, mechanical engineers, psychologists, and chemists. These earnings figures exclude benefits, such as health and retirement, which tend to be more generous for public school teachers than other workers. I should also emphasize that we did not calculate any of these earnings figures ourselves. We simply repeated information collected by the BLS’ National Compensation Survey, which your readers can view themselves here.

FP: So how much do teachers get paid on an annual basis? And how much do they get paid on an annual basis if you factor in that they only work 10 months a year?

Greene: On an annual basis the average teacher in the United States is paid about $47,000 for 38 weeks of work. The equivalent for 50 weeks of work would be about $62,000.

FP: How do we address concerns about failing to count work that teachers take home?

Greene: It is certainly the case that many teachers take some work home, but that is also the case with many other professionals. The BLS survey is designed to capture all hours actually worked, both by teachers and by other workers....

So not only have they established that teachers are, in fact, quite well paid as opposed to underpaid, consider also that they work 10 months a year (or less), receive a bunch of off days during those 10 months, while working 8 hours a day (at most) not counting work that they take home.

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me. Both of my wife's parents are teachers and they, quite honestly, don't work all that much compared to the hours I'm pulling as a senior software engineer. Granted I'm making more than either of them, but I'd let my company keep a portion of my salary in exchange for a huge two-month block of vacation every year to spend with family, travel, etc.

The full report is here, for those curious: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: What do teachers really make?

My wife's a teacher, trust me, it's not as easy and great as that sounds.

[SPTO]

Re: What do teachers really make?

I don't know...the average can be misleading sometimes.

I also take some umbrage on the idea that teachers don't work all that hard. I think it's quite hard to get the attention and respect out of the kids these days. The amount of work may not be THAT much in terms of hourly work and such but there's a lot of stress involved. I think some of the best teachers are the ones that take their job a step further by personally caring about their students and working hard to mold minds rather then just dump information (most of which is useless) on kids.

As for the 2 month's "vacation" that's more myth then reality. Sure they're off for those 2 months but from what I know teachers have to start preparing for the new curriculum and such about a month before the school year starts.

[Skerik]

Re: What do teachers really make?

I didn't say teachers don't work all that hard, just that they don't work all that much. Say what you want about the stress of teaching, but it's a very different kind of stress (if it's comparable at all) to the stress involved in the 50-plus-hour-week corporate rat race.

As for the myth of the two month "vacation," c'mon now. No teacher is devoting 8-hour days to preparing for their new curriculum every year before school starts during their precious two month vacation, and a lot of teachers teach the same thing year after year. Not a whole lot of preparation required there. If I can take my laptop on a trip with me and put in an hour here and there "preparing my curriculum," it's a vacation.

I'm not hating on teachers, I'm just saying it's hard for them to scream injustice about being underpaid when they're not only making good money, but not working a lot of hours to get it.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: What do teachers really make?

My wife goes to school at 7:30AM, classes start at 9. School is out at 3:30, she gets home at 4:30-5. She grades papers at night, about an hour every other night or so.

To say it's not hard work, much work, or no stress is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

Yeah, they get 2-3 months off over the summer, but at the same time, my wife has been graduated for 5 years now, and still hasn't found a full time position, so we go all summer trying to help her find a job, as we have no income coming in.

So yes, they are very underpaid, especially considering they are molding the future.

[SPTO]

Re: What do teachers really make?

I'm not hating on teachers, I'm just saying it's hard for them to scream injustice about being underpaid when they're not only making good money, but not working a lot of hours to get it.

You may be right but if it's as great as you make it out to be why is there still a shortage of GOOD teachers out there?

Actually I wonder if there's stats on the average age of teachers as I have a strong feeling the average is over 50.

[TJdaSportsGuy]

Re: What do teachers really make?

So not only have they established that teachers are, in fact, quite well paid as opposed to underpaid, consider also that they work 10 months a year (or less), receive a bunch of off days during those 10 months, while working 8 hours a day (at most) not counting work that they take home.

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me. Both of my wife's parents are teachers and they, quite honestly, don't work all that much compared to the hours I'm pulling as a senior software engineer. Granted I'm making more than either of them, but I'd let my company keep a portion of my salary in exchange for a huge two-month block of vacation every year to spend with family, travel, etc.

My wife is a teacher also. This article is not taking many things into account. The 2 month "vacation" as you put it? For my wife at least, that's spent going to seminars, participating in workshops, and other things that can be considered "Continuing Education". Trust me...of the 2 months of summer vacation, my wife really only had 2 and a half weeks where she didn't have any sort of obligations related to her job.

Plus, with you as a senior software engineer, her hours may not be as plentiful (a fact I seriously doubt in the first place), but I'd venture a guess and say her 8 hour days are a hell of a lot tougher than your 10 hour (or however many) days.

Do you have 7 periods a day, each lasting anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half where you're in charge of a classroom of 25-30 kids? Do you have to break up fights at your job? Do you have parents calling you anytime, day or night, to discuss why their kid keeps getting reprimanded for hitting other students with broken pieces of pencils? Do you have kids throwing pieces of pencils at you?

Didn't think so.

I'm not saying your job is easy, but you're a software engineer, which in the grand sceme of things, is a lot less stressful and important than being at least partly responsible for educating and babysitting 150-200 kids everyday.

Sorry, but teachers are WELL underpaid. I see it everyday, first hand.

[fishepa]

Re: What do teachers really make?

I'm not hating on teachers, I'm just saying it's hard for them to scream injustice about being underpaid when they're not only making good money, but not working a lot of hours to get it.

Could not agree more.

[tribesyoungguns]

Re: What do teachers really make?

Traditionally regarded as woefully underpaid, teachers don't really appear to be so....

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26818

It's dry, so here's the meat of the interview....



So not only have they established that teachers are, in fact, quite well paid as opposed to underpaid, consider also that they work 10 months a year (or less), receive a bunch of off days during those 10 months, while working 8 hours a day (at most) not counting work that they take home.

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me. Both of my wife's parents are teachers and they, quite honestly, don't work all that much compared to the hours I'm pulling as a senior software engineer. Granted I'm making more than either of them, but I'd let my company keep a portion of my salary in exchange for a huge two-month block of vacation every year to spend with family, travel, etc.

The full report is here, for those curious: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm

Funny you bring this up because I'm a teacher and I was just talking to a friend about this today. I, for one, have never thought that teachers are underpaid. We work about 185 days a year, have great benefits, great retirement, and I make about $50,000 (a little more than the norm because its a wealthy suburban town) as a 5th year teacher and coach with my masters. The downside is I have no choice but to get my masters which isn't all that cheap especially since I have student loans already. Also, the pay for coaches is basically pennies per hour depending on the sport but I choose to do that and don't do it for the money so its not a big deal. I'll also be able to retire when I'm 57 and get 89% of my pay for the rest of my life. Its a great gig if you like kids and have a lot of patience.

Unfortunately you'll probably find 8 out of 10 teachers who will disagree with me and say that we are vastly underpaid. Thats because most teachers are whiners and complainers who don't understand how the world works outside of education. If its not complaining about money, its about standards, and if its not about standards its about the kids. They really just don't understand how good they have it.

[TJdaSportsGuy]

Re: What do teachers really make?

Unfortunately you'll probably find 8 out of 10 teachers who will disagree with me and say that we are vastly underpaid. Thats because most teachers are whiners and complainers who don't understand how the world works outside of education. If its not complaining about money, its about standards, and if its not about standards its about the kids. They really just don't understand how good they have it.

Wow...calling my wife a whiner, are you? Bold. I happen to think her complaints are extremely justified because I've seen it with my own eyes. You happened to luck out and get a job in a great district that obviously compensates you guys very well. Seems like you might be living in a little bubble though, because most districts are not like that. Hell, my wife makes about half of what you do and she's in her 5th year also. When she finishes her Master's (she'll have it by mid-2007), she's expecting a slight bump in pay, but not 50K a year though.

Consider yourself lucky. You've found yourself a wonderful place to teach and coach. But realize that most places aren't like that.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: What do teachers really make?

Wow...calling my wife a whiner, are you? Bold. I happen to think her complaints are extremely justified because I've seen it with my own eyes. You happened to luck out and get a job in a great district that obviously compensates you guys very well. Seems like you might be living in a little bubble though, because most districts are not like that. Hell, my wife makes about half of what you do and she's in her 5th year also. When she finishes her Master's (she'll have it by mid-2007), she's expecting a slight bump in pay, but not 50K a year though.

Consider yourself lucky. You've found yourself a wonderful place to teach and coach. But realize that most places aren't like that.

Agreed, my wife has been out of college 5 years now, still no full time job since Cleveland area schools are a mess. Salary ranges are very low, this year in a one year long term contract, she's making just about 35K.

But yeah, she's got it easy.

[Skerik]

Re: What do teachers really make?

So because your wife can't find a job, teaching is a brutal profession. Ok....

Obviously to make whatever the average teaching salary is, you have to have a job. Similarly, to be pulling down what I'm making as a software engineer, I also have to have a job. If you can't find a job, you don't really relate to a discussion about average salaries in either field. It sucks to be without work in any field, but I can't see how not having a job relates to the topic at hand because there are plenty of out of work software engineers too, as well as everything else.

As for the "your job isn't as important" as a teachers' remarks, and the "teachers mold our youth" remarks, those are a little tiresome. I do important work and while I'm not preventing kids from hitting each other on a daily basis or teaching them how to add, I like to think I'm making a difference in the world with the work I'm doing. Kind of like cops, assembly line workers, auto mechanics, hospital workers, soldiers etc are all doing important work to make a difference in the world, despite not being teachers.

But teachers get a break because they're, in your words, "educating and babysitting" our kids. It's important work, sure, but so are a lot of things.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: What do teachers really make?

I give up, you're right, my wife's profession sucks, and is the biggest crime against this country.

EDIT - by the way, are you at work right now, posting on OS? Man, you must be one overpaid software engineer that has time to surf the web and post topics all day on a website.

[Skerik]

Re: What do teachers really make?

Way to engage the issues. Obviously someone's salary, ability to find work, etc are based upon a lot of factors. I just pointed to a study that said, on average, that teachers aren't as woefully underpaid as they're traditionally regarded. Averages mean that some people will have experiences below the average, while others will have experiences above it. I'm sorry for your wife's struggles, but they don't indicate that the teaching profession, by and large, is an absolute pressure cooker living hell. For her it is right now and that's a shame, but you're not really engaging the larger issue here, which is the study.

[Kashanova]

Re: What do teachers really make?

teachers where i work at get like 50-56k but they have no lives cause of grading and such