Computer Advice

[Unoriginal Name]

I posted a couple weeks ago about a computer I wanted to buy and after reading the response I decided maybe I should go along the route of putting one together myself. I would like to get some advice on what I have thus far and see if there is anything I have left out.

This is my situation: I have always been a store bought computer buying, just walking in to the store and picking up a system already built for me but I have been thinking about building my own for quite some time.

As far as what my wife and I currently use the computer for: general internet surfing (although wife wants to start to download music), e-mail, some gaming (simulation games like SimCity or Age of Empires, other games like Syberia).

We would possibly like a system that we could use to watch/record television shows.

I have been looking at the following components suggested by someone on another board:

CPU: Intel E2140

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P31-S3G

Memory: Wintec Ampo DDR2-800 2GB

Video: Gigabyte GV-NX86T256H 8600GT 256MB Video Card

Video Capture: Hauppage WINTV-HVR1800 MCE Combo (Right now I only get HD video through connecting the cable line to my television. I do not have digital cable or satelite right now.)

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500GB

Case: Cooler Master Centurion 534

Power Supply: Rosewill RV-430 430W

DVD/CD Drive: Samsung 20x DVD/CD Burner

I will not be connecting this to my HDTV. I have a DLP and the manual recommends not connecting it. I will be buying a monitor to use with this.

It has been awhile since I've looked at new computers so I am not really sure where to start. I don't really know what type of components to be looking at and what is good enough for what I want to do. I want something that will work great for what we want to do now but also not become outdated very quickly. Can I get any suggestions/changes? My budget is probably $500-$1000.

Thanks in advance,

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

Looks like a decent budget computer. Should be able to do everything you list. I'm not a fan of rosewill power supplies though. I'd look at antec, seasonic, corsair, fortron...can't think of any others off the top of my head. Are you going vista or xp? That computer should be able to run vista just fine.


CPU: Intel E2140 - 70

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P31-S3G - 70 - you only have 2 total slots for RAM, just be aware of this. If you want to increase ram, you'll have to replace what you have because you'll have no open slots to add to. For another 20$ to 50$ you could get a p35 board instead of a p31 and have 4 total slots for more RAM. Not a huge deal if you use vista 32 bit or xp media center edition as they'll only see a little over 3 gigs of RAM anyways. A p35 board will also give you another 2 SATA ports I believe (SATA for hard drives and sometimes cd/dvd). Not really a big deal either unless you plan adding a lot of hard drives.

Memory: Wintec Ampo DDR2-800 2GB -35 at newegg, wow that is cheap.

Video: Gigabyte GV-NX86T256H 8600GT 256MB Video Card - 110 - decent

Video Capture: Hauppage WINTV-HVR1800 MCE Combo - Almost bought this tuner today, but instead went with the Visiontek 650 because it was on sale at BB and I had a gift card. Depending on where you live, you might be able to pick up local HD channels over the air with a simple antenna. I can pick up local hd channels with the fm radio antenna my card came with, but I'm pretty close to the transmission towers and up high. 105

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500GB - 100 or so. I'm assuming you're getting a SATA drive. If not, do so.

Case: Cooler Master Centurion 534 - 40 (or 80 depending on which option you are getting)

Power Supply: Rosewill RV-430 430W -35 - I never read good things about rosewill from 'professional' psu reviewers.

DVD/CD Drive: Samsung 20x DVD/CD Burner - 30

Right about $600. If you are willing to go up to 1000, I'd spend a little more on the power supply and a better cpu.

corsair 450 power supply - 70 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139003

e6550 processor - 170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115030

so that would add 135$ to make it 735.

Building a PC isn't that hard if you take your time, read all the instructions for all the stuff you get slowly and in full, and if you run into trouble don't force things. Most connections in the case will only work one way now, the right way. So if something isn't connecting right, you probably are trying to connect it backwards or to the wrong connection.

Cpu goes on the motherboard, install heatsink. Add ram. Put psu in case, run psu cables to general area. Install mobo in case. Add vid card. Attach front panel leads for power button/usb etc. Add drives. Attach fans. Boot into bios and make sure it sees your drives, then reboot and install OS and pray Then install your drivers - chipset, audio, lan, vid card. Then I'd let windows update run, then make sure you have the latest drivers for chipset, audio, lan, and vid card. Once all that was working, I'd turn it off and add the tv tuner.

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

oh and just do some basic reading on pc building to get familiar with terms and names for things. Watch this too, should give you a good idea what you are getting into even if some of the steps won't be exactly what you'll have to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVJ5ZEbf6F4

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

Looks like a decent budget computer. Should be able to do everything you list. I'm not a fan of rosewill power supplies though. I'd look at antec, seasonic, corsair, fortron...can't think of any others off the top of my head. Are you going vista or xp? That computer should be able to run vista just fine.

The tuner card I was looking at comes with Vista Home Premium 32-bit OEM software so I was leaning that way because whichever way I go I am going to have to buy the OS. For what I want to do would I be better off with Vista or XP? Do I need 64-bit or stick to 32-bit?

CPU: Intel E2140 - 70

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P31-S3G - 70 - you only have 2 total slots for RAM, just be aware of this. If you want to increase ram, you'll have to replace what you have because you'll have no open slots to add to. For another 20$ to 50$ you could get a p35 board instead of a p31 and have 4 total slots for more RAM. Not a huge deal if you use vista 32 bit or xp media center edition as they'll only see a little over 3 gigs of RAM anyways. A p35 board will also give you another 2 SATA ports I believe (SATA for hard drives and sometimes cd/dvd). Not really a big deal either unless you plan adding a lot of hard drives.

Which P35 motherboard would go with the E2140? I like the idea of having more than two slots for RAM.

If I was to take your later suggestion of E6550 what would the motherboard be then?

Thanks for the suggestions.

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

The tuner card I was looking at comes with Vista Home Premium 32-bit OEM software so I was leaning that way because whichever way I go I am going to have to buy the OS. For what I want to do would I be better off with Vista or XP? Do I need 64-bit or stick to 32-bit?

For Christmas I upgraded to vista (from xp media center) and I'm liking it. Seems like most of the big wrinkles have been ironed out of vista. I would say go with vista. For just a general use home pc, 32 bit is fine. The only compelling reason to go to 64 is you can go over 4 gig of ram (32 is limited to about 3.5). You'll run into some compatibility issues with 64 and older stuff (and some new).

The major thing to get used to with vista is it's security features. When you try to mess with files and install stuff, you'll always get a pop up asking you are you sure you want to do this? This should stop something running in the background from screwing with your files, but it can get annoying adding extra clicks to simple stuff. Good news is you can turn it off if you don't like it, just google 'vista turn off UAC.' So I don't see any real reason to stick with xp over vista personally. Sure there are reports saying xp still runs faster than xp, but I'm sure they'll iron that out at some point in the future. If you've got the computer to run it, might as well go vista, and you'll have the computer to run it with all the bells and whistles turned on.

I'm running vista 64 and haven't had any real problems other than a few older programs don't want ot run and an old hauppauge tv tuner doesn't have vista 64 drivers so that's why I got the new one. Main reason I went with 64 is that I got 4 gigs of ram.

I think for what you describe, vista home premium 32 bit would be fine. 2 gigs of ram should be cool too.

Which P35 motherboard would go with the E2140? I like the idea of having more than two slots for RAM.

If you wanted more ram, I'd say get 2 sticks of 2 gig rather than 2 sticks of 1 gig. With ram being so cheap nowadays, getting 3.5 out of the 4 gigs won't be such a huge loss money wise. But I think going over 2 gigs for you would be overkill.

If you really really wanted a p35 board though, here's 2 to look at. Personally I like gigabyte, asus, msi. I'm sure others are good too, but those are the names I've used before.

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 - 130$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128050

Asus p5k-e $140 - This is the mobo I upgraded to.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131225

I think the p31, vista premium32, and 2 gigs is fine for what you describe though.

If I was to take your later suggestion of E6550 what would the motherboard be then?

I think going to the e6550 would be the best upgrade from what you originally listed.

If you went for the e6550 processor, the p31 gigabyte mobo will work fine. The e6550 is a LGA 775 socket and that's what that p31 gigabyte board is.

Thanks for the suggestions.

No problem, ask away if you have any questions at all. That first build is scary because you aren't quite sure if what you are getting will work together or if you'll actually end up with a good computer.

Hopefully if I've said something stupid or made any bad suggestions someone will pipe up and put me in my place.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

Ok I made a few changes. I am still looking for a good power supply and case in about the same range I am already in.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - 170

ASUS P5K-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - 140

GIGABYTE GV-RX26T256H Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - 97

VisionTek TV Wonder 650 PCI HDTV Tuner w/Remote 900191 PCI Interface - Retail - 130

Wintec Ampo DDR2-800 2GB - 37

Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - 100

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM - 32

Cooler Master Centurion 534 - 50

Rosewill RV-430 430W - 35

Vista 64-bit Home Premium OEM - 111


I have a couple more questions:

1) How does the RAM work? On the motherboard specifications it says Memory standard is 1066 but the RAM I have in my list is 800. Will that work?

2) How much would the speed of the computer change if I was to switch out the processor for a E2180? ( I don't know if I want to Overclock or not yet. What would this do?)

3)Would I be better served to get a external tuner card instead of internal to cut down on heat inside the case? Would there be any drawback to this? Or should I get a PCI Express card so that it has some distance between it and the graphics card?

I'm sure I went overkill on some things but I want to build something that will last for awhile and be able to make some upgrades to in the future without starting over.

Thanks again for the suggestions/advice.

[rubisco43]

Re: Computer Advice

I usually trust anandtech's budget advice with some personal modifications to it (preference for specific brands). here's the link

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3148

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

1) Yeah the ram will work. That just means you could get faster ram. Not an issue unless you plan on overclocking. Even then, pc6400, or ddr2 800 mhz ram is fine. I overclock and I'm using that speed ram too.

2) The E2180 has a smaller L2 cache, slower front side bus, and slower overall speed. I think the 2180 has been replaced with the 2200 too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...6063&Tpk=e2200

It's a tough call. If you needed to shave some $$ of the total price, the 2200 would be fine. Me personally, I'd go with the 6550 for the bigger L2 cache if deciding between the 2. I believe if you compared the 2 side by side, you could see a small, but noticeable speed increase on the 6550.

3) If you aren't overclocking, an internal tuner will be fine. If you are overclocking and have good airflow in the case, an internal tuner will be fine. I'd say the only real reason to get the external tuner would be if you need the pci slots for something else.

I'd also say go for the PCIexpress version of the 650 tune card. The pci version of the 650 has a single hybrid tuner and you have to do a registry hack to trick vista into thinking you have 2 tuners whereas the pciX version actually has 2 tuners.

Just remember with vista 64 you may run into some peripherals that don't have 64 bit drivers and won't work.

Overclocking just means running the processor at a faster speed than it was set for at the factory. The higher you go, the more heat and stress you put on your components. There's usually a good amount of overhead in cpu's to squeeze out some more performance without hurting it. If you are going to do that, you need good case airflow and an aftermarket heatsink for the processor.

I've got a q6600 which runs at 2.4 ghz. I've overclocked it 3.0 ghz. I had to raise the voltage going to the cpu a small amount (but still well within tolerance) to get it to run stable at that speed. I've also got an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 aftermarket heatsink/fan to keep it cool.

Here's a good read on what's involved with overclocking dual and quad cores.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1198647

I'd suggest not scrimping on the power supply. Here's a different one for a little less, but still from a company with a great reputation in power supplies.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954

The case is sort of a personal choice for looks. Spending more will (usually) get you more fans, better airflow, better/easier mounting options (tool less rather than having screws), and more room for expansion. At the very least you want a fan in the back exhausting air (120mm fan here over 80mm). If you want to overclock, getting one in the front sucking in cool air helps. Some cases have fans on the side or top for even more air. Just remember the more fans you have, the louder the computer will be.

As rubisco said, anandtech is very good.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

Is this power supply any good:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...y=REVIEWS#tabs

How would that power supply go with this case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119068

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

I doubt you need a modular supply, so you can save money by not getting one (edit although if a modular psu is a similar price, no reason really to not get modular). Modular just means some of the cables are optional. Going modular helps reduce clutter in the case.

If it's an ATX power supply, it should fit in an ATX case, so yeah that should fit in that case.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

Ultra x2 in tier 4, not bad, but not great.

How about

35$ after rebate thermaltake purepower.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2932371&CatId=1079

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

What about this power supply?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151040

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

can't go wrong with a seasonic.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

On the hard drive what is the difference between a hard drive with 8MB Cache and 16MB cache with everything else being equal?

[mudtiger]

Re: Computer Advice

It should help with file transfers and loading large stuff faster. Essential? No. Nice to have 16? Sure.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: Computer Advice

Ok I think I am finally done deciding on what I want.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - 170

ASUS P5K-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - 140

GIGABYTE GV-RX26T256H Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - 97

VisionTek TV Wonder 650 PCI HDTV Tuner w/Remote 900191 PCI Interface - Retail - 130

Wintec Ampo DDR2-800 2GB - 37

Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - 100

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM - 32

Cooler Master Centurion 5 - 50

SeaSonic SS-500ES ATX12V 2.2/EPS12V 2.91 500W Power Supply OEM - 70

Vista 64-bit Home Premium OEM - 111

Anything look out of place?

Also should there be any concern about buying OEM instead of Retail?