No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

[p_rushing]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

So instead of trying to help the kids just don't do anything for them because they'll mess it up anyway. That's a self fulfilling prophecy, how would you know what would happen if you aren't going to do something? It's not like these kids have been in nice schools all their lives and just didn't take advantage, they've been in these ****ty schools for forever and they are the one's being left behind.


Except that isn't true at all, schools like this aren't given everything that they need to have their students succeed.

Its a cycle and until the community decides its had enough, it won't change. Its got to start there, the school doesn't matter and the teacher don't either. Until the students decide they want to learn, it doesn't matter how many books, computers, teachers, money, etc the school has. It will either go unused or get stolen. The people have to start the change themselves.

Schools don't need all the money that higher income area schools get, they need students willing to learn and put in the extra effort, and creative teachers. Take these kids out of the community they live in and put them in a middle class family with 2 parents that care and I bet every single one of them could go to some college. Sure they are disadvantaged from the start, but they are the ones making the choice to stay in their situation and not get out. It all starts with the mindset and expectations that the community puts on its self.

[jmood88]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

Its a cycle and until the community decides its had enough, it won't change. Its got to start there, the school doesn't matter and the teacher don't either. Until the students decide they want to learn, it doesn't matter how many books, computers, teachers, money, etc the school has. It will either go unused or get stolen. The people have to start the change themselves.

Schools don't need all the money that higher income area schools get, they need students willing to learn and put in the extra effort, and creative teachers. Take these kids out of the community they live in and put them in a middle class family with 2 parents that care and I bet every single one of them could go to some college. Sure they are disadvantaged from the start, but they are the ones making the choice to stay in their situation and not get out. It all starts with the mindset and expectations that the community puts on its self.

Wow. So now the kids are at fault for staying in the situations that they're in? That's ridiculous. At some point personal responsibility does come up but is not the case with kids in school and since they are forced to be in the schools they might as well get the same advantages that suburban schools get. I've seen first hand the difference in funding and how it impact students. I've been to an extremely rich high school and a city school that was one of the richer schools in the city but still lacked alot that I got used to at the rich school. When you have outdated books, equipment that doesn't work, old computers that can barely work etc how can you expect kids to as well as or be as interested to go to school as students at the richer schools? The poorer schools also have to worry more about No Child Left Behind so instead of getting creative lesson plans they have to be taught a worthless test.

[wwharton]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

Schools don't need all the money that higher income area schools get, they need students willing to learn and put in the extra effort, and creative teachers. Take these kids out of the community they live in and put them in a middle class family with 2 parents that care and I bet every single one of them could go to some college. Sure they are disadvantaged from the start, but they are the ones making the choice to stay in their situation and not get out. It all starts with the mindset and expectations that the community puts on its self.

Wait, are you saying that children should decide that they're going to move out of the house with their parent(s), family, etc. to go live with a middle class family so they can have a chance?

Your views are more skewed than I even thought.

[fsquid]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

This is why my kids will go to Private christian schools

[aholbert32]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

It's a goverment plantation mentality. I have a sister and many cousins that fall into this trap. Many of these kids and their parents have always had thier basic needs taken care of by the goverment. Jesse Jackson said "We have Babies making Babies". He left out one word in that statement that's very important in this. Welfare. We have welfare babies making babies. It's a vicious cycle. They have no incentive to get an education.

If they fail,they can still get free housing and food. The extras come from dealing drugs or other hustles. I found it pretty sad when the basketball team lost it's playoff game because of some questionable calls and the star player started this rant about dealing drugs and going to jail because that's where they want us. In my mind if that bull**** was true,that's even more reason to strive to do better.

These kids get 3 years to pass the SAT test. What's that tell them? They aren't smart enough to do it like all the other kids around the country? No thanks.

This school in DC proves that if you have just one parent willing to help their kids get an education they can break away from the goverment tit and become a sucess in many ways.The school is in one of the most crime ridden parts of town and all of the kids are from low income families.It should be the model for all schools. http://www.thurgoodmarshallacademy.org/



HBO needs to cover this school. I am tired of seeing failure stories. Cover some good **** for once HBO.

I gotta disagree with you here. Welfare is an issue but it isnt the main reason that these people continue to struggle. Cutting welfare is only going to make these people find other hustles or increase their current hustle whether its drugs, robbing or prostitution.

Also they do have an incentive to get an education. Most people arent satisified living on the bare minimum which is what welfare provides. No one on Welfare is living the high life. Most live in cheap subsidized housing in poor high crime areas and their only means of food is free lunches and through food stamps. Now some people are OK with living that sort of life but taking away their benefits wont motivate them to do better. It will just force them to find easier (likely criminal) ways to make ends meet.

Also many of the students that attend Thurgood Marshall dont live in the crim ridden portion of SE DC. Marshall is one of the many charter schools that accept low income students from all across the city but admission is done by lottery and the number of students able to attend is low. The reason that I point that out is that all of the Douglass students come from the same crime and poverty ridden section of the city.

Children have two aspects of their life...school and home. The students at Douglass rarely see anything positive. They attend a rundown school with poor trained teachers, a lack of facilities and books and poorly behaved students. Those same students come home to absentee parents, criminal activity on practically every corner and community that frowns on people improving their lives. Most of the students never had a chance in that situation.

Counter that with students at Marshall. Even if they come from a crime ridden neighborhood and have parents who arent active in their lives, those students get to spend 8+ hours a day at a school that encourages work ethic and higher education. I just dont think its fair to compare the students at Douglass with those at Marshall.

[mgoblue]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

It's a tough situation...I know if I were a teacher there's no way I'd want to teach in the crime ridden center of Detroit, DC, etc. I don't blame teachers for not wanting to go all "Dangerous Minds", you know?

[p_rushing]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

Wait, are you saying that children should decide that they're going to move out of the house with their parent(s), family, etc. to go live with a middle class family so they can have a chance?

Your views are more skewed than I even thought.

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that these kids are not dumb, they could all get into college if they put the effort in and had teachers willing to help them. The problem is the environment that they are in says you're too poor, stupid, and worthless to ever do anything and they buy into this. So they don't bother to try and better their life. If you replace that with an environment of a encouraging, caring, safe place, all these kids could do fine in school. Without that though, they really have no chance because they don't have anyone else in their life saying you can do better, you can make something of your life. Its hard to turn your life around if all you have it people telling you that you are wasting your time because it won't matter in the end. Even if they got that at good environment in school, it still would be hard for them if they didn't get any encouragement from home.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

Personally, I think this is a good point.

However, you've got people in middle-class/upper-class schools that don't see the big picture either. So just putting a good environment in there isn't going to automatically give every student good grades and great prospects to succeed. So it's not just the environments, it's not just the parents, it's not just the students, and it's not just the schools.

It's all of the things added together.

[wwharton]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

Also many of the students that attend Thurgood Marshall dont live in the crim ridden portion of SE DC. Marshall is one of the many charter schools that accept low income students from all across the city but admission is done by lottery and the number of students able to attend is low. The reason that I point that out is that all of the Douglass students come from the same crime and poverty ridden section of the city.

Children have two aspects of their life...school and home. The students at Douglass rarely see anything positive. They attend a rundown school with poor trained teachers, a lack of facilities and books and poorly behaved students. Those same students come home to absentee parents, criminal activity on practically every corner and community that frowns on people improving their lives. Most of the students never had a chance in that situation.

Counter that with students at Marshall. Even if they come from a crime ridden neighborhood and have parents who arent active in their lives, those students get to spend 8+ hours a day at a school that encourages work ethic and higher education. I just dont think its fair to compare the students at Douglass with those at Marshall.

I just wanted to add something else to Aaron's point that I think is key to some of these situations in Baltimore (can't speak for everywhere but I know it's insane in Baltimore). Don't underestimate the impact of actually traveling out of your neighborhood. I know most here watched The Wire and saw the kids reactions when they were taken to a different part of the same city or heard them talk about Philly (I think it was Philly) like it was next to China. Most of these kids don't even realize how easy it is to just leave for even a couple of hours, or that doing that could have any benefit. They have no idea there is this better life available to them. Everybody in their entire world is doing just as bad as they are. There's a huge disconnect from the world. It's honestly not that surprising when guys like Carmelo Anthony come back home and act a fool, even though you'd hope that he'd broken through. In his defense, along with the immaturity he's doing some good things in the community but he actually went to Catholic School so he had a foot out the door and a positive outlook on his future even without basketball.

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that these kids are not dumb, they could all get into college if they put the effort in and had teachers willing to help them. The problem is the environment that they are in says you're too poor, stupid, and worthless to ever do anything and they buy into this. So they don't bother to try and better their life. If you replace that with an environment of a encouraging, caring, safe place, all these kids could do fine in school. Without that though, they really have no chance because they don't have anyone else in their life saying you can do better, you can make something of your life. Its hard to turn your life around if all you have it people telling you that you are wasting your time because it won't matter in the end. Even if they got that at good environment in school, it still would be hard for them if they didn't get any encouragement from home.

What I posted is what you pretty much said though, just simplified so you can see how unreasonable that is. Here you're still identifying the problem but offering nothing but an unreasonable solution. I'm not saying you need to offer a solution but you are, it's just not a plausible one.

I know your main point is if the community was better then everything would be better. That's still not accepting how BAD the conditions are in these schools, as jmood was saying. But even looking at that, do you want to blow up the community? The funding to bring up communities is a different topic but it's tightly linked to education. Again, the children are the future. There are many programs in community centers, boys and girls clubs, etc that make great strides. You're right, an improvement in the community will help, but as GIGGAS just said, all these things are tied together and attacking all of them full force is a steep task. I'm just glad there's some national light being shined on it here.

[DC]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

wwharton and Alhorbert Much respect man

Children have two aspects of their life...school and home. The students at Douglass rarely see anything positive. They attend a rundown school with poor trained teachers, a lack of facilities and books and poorly behaved students. Those same students come home to absentee parents, criminal activity on practically every corner and community that frowns on people improving their lives. Most of the students never had a chance in that situation.

Counter that with students at Marshall. Even if they come from a crime ridden neighborhood and have parents who arent active in their lives, those students get to spend 8+ hours a day at a school that encourages work ethic and higher education. I just dont think its fair to compare the students at Douglass with those at Marshall.

Really needs to be re-read.

Good discussion folks.

[Jackdog]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

I disagree. I think no problem should be presented without hope for a plausible solution, but I think you're underestimating the HUGE number of people that are clueless to the true problem. I agree that stories on schools like the Thurgood Marshall Acadamy should be done to show that it can work. There are some out there... it'd be great if HBO did one since that would hit a wider audience. However, the failure stories need to be covered b/c too many people think like p_rushing (sorry, not trying to pick on you man) in that there's no hope, these kids need to see the opportunity they have, etc. It's much, much, much more complicated than that.

"The truth is if there's no hope for the youth, there's no hope for the future."

Ignoring the "failures" and giving up on the kids that teachers can't identify as 1 or 2 that might make it, is a bad plan.

I understand your point and thank you for it. My point is this. I would like to see both sides of the story told. I am tired of seeing negitive stories that involve people that look like me. I want the rest of America to see the success stories my race has accomplished. Not all of us that came from low income childhoods are failures.

[fistofrage]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

One of the issues I had with the kids as that there were teachers willing to give them one on one attention. Both the Spanish teacher and Mr. Snowden, that substitute English teacher to name a few. Mr. Snowden couldn't even get the kid to come in the classroom. And that was after Snowden indicated that he had spent alot of one on one time with the kid, but the kid would rather roam the halls.

So here you have teachers taking an interest in the kids, giving them attention, giving them the resources to succeed(one on one direction). But the kids want the easy way out. These kids are 17 in some cases, almost legal adults. AT some point you have to blame the kids in these circumstances. If you give these kids a free pass, the next generation is bound to fail too.

Snowden said it best, they don't understand what school is for. They don't have the mentality to comprehend that. They'd rather goof off.

We know throwing money at the problem isn't going to make the problem go away, but when you have dedicated teachers willing to spend time 1 on 1 with these kids and it still doesn't matter, it does seem like a hopeless situation.

[Jackdog]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

I gotta disagree with you here. Welfare is an issue but it isnt the main reason that these people continue to struggle. Cutting welfare is only going to make these people find other hustles or increase their current hustle whether its drugs, robbing or prostitution.

Also they do have an incentive to get an education. Most people arent satisified living on the bare minimum which is what welfare provides. No one on Welfare is living the high life. Most live in cheap subsidized housing in poor high crime areas and their only means of food is free lunches and through food stamps. Now some people are OK with living that sort of life but taking away their benefits wont motivate them to do better. It will just force them to find easier (likely criminal) ways to make ends meet.

I never said anything about cutting welfare. I am well aware that it is needed by folks of all colors. I just know for a fact many of my family members are using the system. They have living on the goverment tip down to an art.

Also many of the students that attend Thurgood Marshall dont live in the crim ridden portion of SE DC. Marshall is one of the many charter schools that accept low income students from all across the city but admission is done by lottery and the number of students able to attend is low. The reason that I point that out is that all of the Douglass students come from the same crime and poverty ridden section of the city.

I understand your point and I would like to see more schools like Marshall in our communities.

Children have two aspects of their life...school and home. The students at Douglass rarely see anything positive. They attend a rundown school with poor trained teachers, a lack of facilities and books and poorly behaved students. Those same students come home to absentee parents, criminal activity on practically every corner and community that frowns on people improving their lives. Most of the students never had a chance in that situation.

Counter that with students at Marshall. Even if they come from a crime ridden neighborhood and have parents who arent active in their lives, those students get to spend 8+ hours a day at a school that encourages work ethic and higher education. I just dont think its fair to compare the students at Douglass with those at Marshall.

I agree to a point. But at some time in our kids life they have to understand that jail or early death is not a smart option. The wisdom is that the older you get the smarter you get. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case with many of the kids we saw in the documentary. Instead they take the easy way out and blame their mistakes and failures on others. Accountability is lacking in many of our communities. I come from a two parent low income childhood in E Detroit. My parents loved us and taught us that an education was the way up. That still didn't keep me from losing two brothers to the streets. They were raised better than that,but yet they took the easy way out and it ended badly for both of them. Trust me it wasn't because they had bad parents.

All of our schools might not be great,but the country we live in offers us all a chance if you are willing to put in the effort. In my service I've met many children in Africa that would love to go to Douglass. That place is a palace compared to what they have. I know that might be a ****ty comparison,but it's true.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

[p_rushing]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

I got to watch some of this tonight. There are some great kids there that its ashamed that they get lost in the system. Look at the kid who is going to college, he had 2 parents at home who would not settle with him failing. He still had to make the choice though to go to school. These kids need more influences like those parents in their lives.

[wwharton]

Re: No Child Left Behind: Douglass HS (BMORE) Documentary (HBO NOW)

I understand your point and thank you for it. My point is this. I would like to see both sides of the story told. I am tired of seeing negitive stories that involve people that look like me. I want the rest of America to see the success stories my race has accomplished. Not all of us that came from low income childhoods are failures.

I guess I just don't see all the negative stories you're talking about. Personally I don't see ANY stories. I think you're looking at it from your point of view. You know the issues, you've seen the community and know the real deal. For people like you, seeing success stories is uplifting... for the kids in these situations, it could give them hope. But for most of the country that has no clue why these kids just don't "get it" and why they're ignoring all the great things available to them to just goof off, they NEED to see the truth. As far as I know there haven't been many documentaries in the mainstream like this one, showing the truth. Like I said, I'm with you... I'd like to see both sides but if I can only see one, I'd rather start with the ugly reality so more people want to help create the success stories.

All of our schools might not be great,but the country we live in offers us all a chance if you are willing to put in the effort. In my service I've met many children in Africa that would love to go to Douglass. That place is a palace compared to what they have. I know that might be a ****ty comparison,but it's true.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

You should check out a movie called The Boys of Baraka (http://theboysofbaraka.com). They sent a group of troubled inner city kids to Africa to experience true poverty and struggle. I'd say every one of them came back changed but the lack of support had pretty much every one of them back where they started only years later. It's a shame. I saw this in the theater and a few of the boys were there to answer questions after. It was sad hearing how they were now doing... even sadder the ignorance in the audience from people who clearly wanted to be helpful.

On the surface it appears this country offers us all a chance, but I hate that expression b/c it makes it sound so easy and it's just not for everyone. Hell it may not have been as easy for you as you may be remembering. Some of us have had good people around us in the midst of the same horrible environment. It'd be unfair to say that I came from that environment and made it so there's no excuse for everyone else and that kinda sounds like what you're sayin.