*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ben's most likely not Dead.

And the more I think about it, I'm ticked. Sayid is a trained killer. He took 1 shot at Ben from 20 or 30 feet away in the dark with 1 hand. Every other killing they showed Sayid do he took multiple shots into his victim or at least ensured they were dead. No Exit wound. A trained killer would be more efficient than that.

Not sure where the show is going, but I don't think we are seeing 1 path where history can't be altered. Meaning if we fastforward all the way to 2004 from 1977, you won't see the Losties back on flight 815 and crashing on the island.

I think you have to be dealing with a parralel universe of some sort. One that is functioning a layer below the one we know. The one that is in 2007 now with Jin and Ben on the other island.

Still doesn't explain how Locke is walking around. It would have made more sense if he somehow flashed to a day before his hanging. Him just coming back to life after a crash and not a flash is very odd. ANd even then, I would think death is permanent regardless of when it happens.

[ipitythafool25]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The trailer editor is a cunning little guy, though. ABC made it seem like Juliet was going to threaten Kate about Sawyer.

Juliet says: "I didn't know how to tell you without making it seem I was saying to stay away from him."

Trailer Juliet says: "Stay away from him."

Dun dun! Suspense! Clever.

Yes I have all but given up trying to base what I think will happen the following week based on the promos... they are never exactly how they paint them out to be

Also .. how can one not feel for Ben in someway.. here this poor kid who seems like a very good,nice kid... has a birthday which is a day meant to celebrate and be happy, also be the day his mother died.. have a father physically/emotionally abuse the kid and blame him for his wifes death.... then be shot in cold blood by a guy who he is trying to help flee certain death

No wonder he turned out as screwed up as he has

[ipitythafool25]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ben's most likely not Dead.

And the more I think about it, I'm ticked. Sayid is a trained killer. He took 1 shot at Ben from 20 or 30 feet away in the dark with 1 hand. Every other killing they showed Sayid do he took multiple shots into his victim or at least ensured they were dead. No Exit wound. A trained killer would be more efficient than that.

Not sure where the show is going, but I don't think we are seeing 1 path where history can't be altered. Meaning if we fastforward all the way to 2004 from 1977, you won't see the Losties back on flight 815 and crashing on the island.

I think you have to be dealing with a parralel universe of some sort. One that is functioning a layer below the one we know. The one that is in 2007 now with Jin and Ben on the other island.

Still doesn't explain how Locke is walking around. It would have made more sense if he somehow flashed to a day before his hanging. Him just coming back to life after a crash and not a flash is very odd. ANd even then, I would think death is permanent regardless of when it happens.

I too was a little threw off by Sayid just taking for granted that the Ben was dead, a little off of his normal self.. maybe he just assumed one bullet to the kids chest/heart area would suffice


Here's a little theory, maybe just maybe he does die.. temporarily..we have heard Ben say that he was born on the island, which we all know is a lie.... but maybe he's talking about being reborn/brought back to life.. and that is what has made him who he is today and the person that he was died back on that night

[born_bad]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I too was a little threw off by Sayid just taking for granted that the Ben was dead, a little off of his normal self.. maybe he just assumed one bullet to the kids chest/heart area would suffice


Here's a little theory, maybe just maybe he does die.. temporarily..we have heard been say that he was born on the island, which we all know is a lie.... but maybe he's talking about being reborn/brought back to life.. and that is what has made him who he is today and the person that he was died back on that night

There's absolutely no way Ben is dead. It's just a matter of how they're going to handle it. My guess is Richard is going to find him and that's how Ben becomes part of their group, goes on to kill the Darma people, etc. It will be interesting to see the role Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. have in the killings of the Darma Initiative because that's clearly where this is going. Either directly or indirectly, their actions play a major role in what happens. I think Sayid shooting little Ben is one of those actions that triggers something major happening.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I too was a little threw off by Sayid just taking for granted that the Ben was dead, a little off of his normal self.. maybe he just assumed one bullet to the kids chest/heart area would suffice


Here's a little theory, maybe just maybe he does die.. temporarily..we have heard been say that he was born on the island, which we all know is a lie.... but maybe he's talking about being reborn/brought back to life.. and that is what has made him who he is today and the person that he was died back on that night

A trained killer never "assumes" death.

We'll see if this is one timeline or not. It should become relatively clear soon. I am leaning toward another "path" all together right now. So little Ben could have kicked the bucket.

There is really no way that this is 1 path and history can't be altered. There would be too many holes in that theory.

[ipitythafool25]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

There's absolutely no way Ben is dead. It's just a matter of how they're going to handle it. My guess is Richard is going to find him and that's how Ben becomes part of their group, goes on to kill the Darma people, etc. It will be interesting to see the role Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. have in the killings of the Darma Initiative because that's clearly where this is going. Either directly or indirectly, their actions play a major role in what happens. I think Sayid shooting little Ben is one of those actions that triggers something major happening.

Yeah there is no way he's dead.. can't remember if it was last season or season 3, but Ben said that the purge wasn't his decision specifically...but that he made a decision that led to the purge.. perhaps tonight with freeing Sayid that is gonna ultimately turn out to be what sets the wheels in motion

[ipitythafool25]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

A trained killer never "assumes" death.

We'll see if this is one timeline or not. It should become relatively clear soon. I am leaning toward another "path" all together right now. So little Ben could have kicked the bucket.

There is really no way that this is 1 path and history can't be altered. There would be too many holes in that theory.

Lol... oh there's no doubt I would've put a few in his dome just to be sure

I agree these last batch of episodes are gonna clear up the timeline/timelines debate

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I'm thinking it's Sayid shooting young Ben is what helps shape Ben into what he becomes... in a twist of irony, the very thing Sayid thinks he is stopping by "killing" young Ben, actually happens because of this

Good point; It's immediately what crossed my mind when he actually shot him...

HOWEVER... and this is what bothers me about this... when Faraday implanted the thought into Desmond in the past, his present self immediately remembered it.

Never mind all the actions that occurred in between and how his actions should now be different because of this information... but how in the heck does this happen and Present Ben doesn't have an immediate reaction to it?

[ipitythafool25]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Good point; It's immediately what crossed my mind when he actually shot him...

HOWEVER... and this is what bothers me about this... when Faraday implanted the thought into Desmond in the past, his present self immediately remembered it.

Never mind all the actions that occurred in between and how his actions should now be different because of this information... but how in the heck does this happen and Present Ben doesn't have an immediate reaction to it?

Since I'm only speculating of course... I think it all has to do with the fact that Desmond is the anomaly in all of this time travel/timeline thing.. he potentially has the potential to be the one who alters something

[ehh]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ben not being dead is even more obvious than Jin not being killed when the freighter exploded, and that's not an easy feat to top.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Good point; It's immediately what crossed my mind when he actually shot him...

HOWEVER... and this is what bothers me about this... when Faraday implanted the thought into Desmond in the past, his present self immediately remembered it.

Never mind all the actions that occurred in between and how his actions should now be different because of this information... but how in the heck does this happen and Present Ben doesn't have an immediate reaction to it?

Do we know that present Ben didn't have a reaction to it?

We'll have to see. As far as I can understand, this shooting by Sayid is happening on a different dimension at the same time Ben lies in that cot with the other wounded from the plane crash.

Like when Desmond woke up and remembered the Faraday conversation, he didn't remember it until 2007.

Its like there are layers to time, but 2007 is the basis. Ben was shot in the past, but Ben isn't going to have recollection of it until 2007. Its like all of a sudden out of the blue, he's going to recall it if he lived.

But thats the thing thats unclear, the fact that Desmond rememebred would indicate that there is 1 path that can't be altered. You can mess with the past, but it isn't going to have any consequence until the present. Because the "base clock" is in the present. Despite the fact they are back in 1977, its 2007 for our purposes.

But there seems to be holes in that. Have to wait and see in a few episodes, alot will be more clear.

[aholbert32]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

And the more I think about it, I'm ticked. Sayid is a trained killer. He took 1 shot at Ben from 20 or 30 feet away in the dark with 1 hand. Every other killing they showed Sayid do he took multiple shots into his victim or at least ensured they were dead. No Exit wound. A trained killer would be more efficient than that.

.

I thought about that too but I think it makes sense. You could see in Sayid's face that he was conflicted about this. He knew that he had to kill Ben because he knows what he does in the future but he didnt want to kill him because he was a kid. Also, I dont think the writers wanted to make Sayid out as that bad of a person. The image of Sayid putting a bullet in the back of the head of a kid would have been too much for a character that is pretty much liked.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Could it be that the tumor that Ben suffers from later in life is related to being shot by Sayid?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I thought about that too but I think it makes sense. You could see in Sayid's face that he was conflicted about this. He knew that he had to kill Ben because he knows what he does in the future but he didnt want to kill him because he was a kid. Also, I dont think the writers wanted to make Sayid out as that bad of a person. The image of Sayid putting a bullet in the back of the head of a kid would have been too much for a character that is pretty much liked.

I guess my problem with it is that they go overboard with it to show that Sayid is a natural born killer. We know Sayid's background, but they went out of their way to show how he kills without remorse. And kills efficiently. Regardless of if he was conflicted or not, once he decided to do it, I would suspect it be done in a manner that would have been characteristic of his normal killing. Not a one handed shot in the dark from 20 feet away. Once he had already decided to kill him, doing it properly would be his M.O.

But I see what you are saying, an execution type shooting of a child on prime time TV wouldn't fly. But I don't think it would put Sayid in a different light, the writers have gone out of their way to make Ben the ultimate villain.

If little Ben turns up alive though because he was wearing a bullet proof vest or the shot missed his vitals, I'm calling BS though because there was no reason why Sayid wouldn't make sure the job was finished once he committed to doing it, its clear he finishes what he intends to do.

[aholbert32]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I guess my problem with it is that they go overboard with it to show that Sayid is a natural born killer. We know Sayid's background, but they went out of their way to show how he kills without remorse. And kills efficiently. Regardless of if he was conflicted or not, once he decided to do it, I would suspect it be done in a manner that would have been characteristic of his normal killing. Not a one handed shot in the dark from 20 feet away. Once he had already decided to kill him, doing it properly would be his M.O.

But I see what you are saying, an execution type shooting of a child on prime time TV wouldn't fly. But I don't think it would put Sayid in a different light, the writers have gone out of their way to make Ben the ultimate villain.

If little Ben turns up alive though because he was wearing a bullet proof vest or the shot missed his vitals, I'm calling BS though because there was no reason why Sayid wouldn't make sure the job was finished once he committed to doing it, its clear he finishes what he intends to do.

I gotta say it would have made me see him in a different light. Shoot, the one shot made me look at him different. Everybody else we've seen him shoot has been an adult. While adult Ben is definetly the ultimate villian, they made child Ben look like a decent enough kid. He wanted to get away from his abusive parent and he released Sayid before they killed him. Maybe I'm forgetting but I havent seen Sayid that conflicted about any of his previous kills (maybe one of the Iraqi ones but none on the island or after he left the island).

Also, the earlier Sayid kill in the episode wasnt exactly through. He shot him twice and didnt check if he was still breathing.