*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[Coug00]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

forget it. Already said.

I couldn't respond in time before you edited the post, but I think you made a great point about time not being a straight line for them. For everyone else or for a normal person, time is a straight linear path from left to right...like your standard event timeline.

For the Losties they have either made a loop back to somewhere else in the straight line (the O6 minus Sun/Aaron) or have looped numerous times (Sawyer, Juliet, Myles, etc.) along the straight line. Think of a sideways 'P' for a visual example of a straight line with a time loop.

So we can view the timelines two different ways. The first is viewing time holistically from left to right so we see all things happening in sequentle order from 1954 to 2007. Or we can view each individual person's timeline from their birth to death, which would include numerous loops along the normal (straight) timeline.

Hope that made sense.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Right, I agree with what you are saying but because the decisions they make are set in stone and we'll see that as the story of Ben unfolds.

The way I look at it is you are really seeing the story of Ben Linus unfold. That story will carry a chronological timeline. We'll see(or maybe not see but at least it will be implied) his life. We know when and how he born, we know how he got to the island, we know how he got to the hostiles, and we know how he destroyed Dharma, then there is a chunk of time we'll learn about how he became a leader and met up with the Losties on flight 815. We know what happened there between 2004 and 2007. Now we need to have some more time filled in. Its almost right now the Losties aren't the main focus because what they are doing in 1977 doesn't really have any consequence as far as we can tell, we're not watching what they are going to do next, we're watching what they have already done if you are looking at the story from the Ben perspective.

When the story gets back into to present time, we'll be looking at the Losties with Free Will to make their own decisions that impact things.

Its almost like watching a sports replay and screaming at the baserunner to slide. He was out no matter what he did and you already know that. When it gets back to real time the next batter comes up and now you have no idea whats going to happen. Only when they all get back to 2007 or whatever you want to call the present will the Losties have free will to make an impact.

So yeah, no 2 timelines. 1 timeline, pretty clear by Ben not dying. After last episode I started looking at this like the Benjamin Linus "this is your life" and not "I wonder what the Losties will do next".

But eventually everything will get back to present day and we'll have a good old fashioned show down. Nothing that we are seeing that is done in the past can prevent Ben from laying on that Cot, talking to Locke that we saw at the end of the episode last night(assuming that is absolute present time).

The replay makes perfect sense. I like that. "Ben's Story." It does feel that way and right now, that is exactly what we are getting. We are finding out why Ben is the person he is. They even tried to make us feel a bit sympathetic for him when Roger spoke to Kate. It's almost like you want to ask: Did he do this to himself?

And perhaps that's what we're learning. We're learning that even Ben couldn't avoid the path laid out for him.

Though, I don't think I can be the only one that feels as if Alpert was trying to change something. The way he tells Kate and Sawyer if this is what they really want, it's like he was testing them. Or rather, testing the entire theory. I feel like he wants to scream: You idiots! He's going to want to kill you. You already know that and yet, you still want to let him live? Why?

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I couldn't respond in time before you edited the post, but I think you made a great point about time not being a straight line for them. For everyone else or for a normal person, time is a straight linear path from left to right...like your standard event timeline.

For the Losties they have either made a loop back to somewhere else in the straight line (the O6 minus Sun/Aaron) or have looped numerous times (Sawyer, Juliet, Myles, etc.) along the straight line. Think of a sideways 'P' for a visual example of a straight line with a time loop.

So we can view the timelines two different ways. The first is viewing time holistically from left to right so we see all things happening in sequentle order from 1954 to 2007. Or we can view each individual person's timeline from their birth to death, which would include numerous loops along the normal (straight) timeline.

Hope that made sense.

Yea, I deleted it because I got into religion with the whole destiny vs. free will and trying to explain that I think destiny can coexist with free will. When I reread my entry, I just felt it best to avoid that entire discussion.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The replay makes perfect sense. I like that. "Ben's Story." It does feel that way and right now, that is exactly what we are getting. We are finding out why Ben is the person he is. They even tried to make us feel a bit sympathetic for him when Roger spoke to Kate. It's almost like you want to ask: Did he do this to himself?

And perhaps that's what we're learning. We're learning that even Ben couldn't avoid the path laid out for him.

Though, I don't think I can be the only one that feels as if Alpert was trying to change something. The way he tells Kate and Sawyer if this is what they really want, it's like he was testing them. Or rather, testing the entire theory. I feel like he wants to scream: You idiots! He's going to want to kill you. You already know that and yet, you still want to let him live? Why?

I think its because 1/3 of the Losties know that no matter what they do, they can't really change anything. The others think they are making a difference and trying to act ethically by saving a child.

Its like Sawyer thinks he's making a difference and really doesn't mind being trapped in 1977 because thats a good place for him. Doesn't have to deal with the mess he created in present times(2004).

But you have Jack that seems to be just not doing anything, knowing he can't really do anything about anything until he gets back to present time.

Alpert was going to have Ben either way. Even if the Losties had never shown up(because it doesn't appear that they have an impact anyway) he had already struck the deal with Alpert. Its just later on I think that the Losties are going to blame themselves for creating this Monster.

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Just watched online with CC on and it's "Ellie".
So it's official, my hearing sucks.

Nice! Glad it worked and you guys don't have to fight to the death now.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I was prepared to fight.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I was prepared to fight.

But you have an unfair advantage! Who can argue with anyone who has such an awesome avatar of lovely Keeley Hazel???

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

She is amazing. And I know it's awesome. I made it.

I wonder if the Numbers will make an appearance again. I think it would be ironic if Hurley was forced to use the Numbers to do something important in 1977. And as a result, it's because of him that the man in the psych ward knows the numbers and Hurley ends up playing them in the lotto.

You know what. I'm saying that's what happens, or something very similar involving Hurley.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

She is amazing. And I know it's awesome. I made it.

I wonder if the Numbers will make an appearance again. I think it would be ironic if Hurley was forced to use the Numbers to do something important in 1977. And as a result, it's because of him that the man in the psych ward knows the numbers and Hurley ends up playing them in the lotto.

You know what. I'm saying that's what happens, or something very similar involving Hurley.

Or it's another chicken or the egg thing.
For example: Hurley's memory is going to be wiped clean and sent back in time to before he won the lottery and crash on the island. But he, and possibly many others, know that if this doesn't happen some catastrophic event will take place.
So Hurely, or one of the Losties, makes sure they create a distress signal with the numbers implanted into it.
That way, the numbers will always get back to Hurely one way or another.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

She is amazing. And I know it's awesome. I made it.

I wonder if the Numbers will make an appearance again. I think it would be ironic if Hurley was forced to use the Numbers to do something important in 1977. And as a result, it's because of him that the man in the psych ward knows the numbers and Hurley ends up playing them in the lotto.

You know what. I'm saying that's what happens, or something very similar involving Hurley.

Well they were broadcast over the radio tower right? When was that first broadcast made?

Let me ask you a question, Hurley in 1977 is living his present, so he already played the numbers correct? Because he already lived his 2004.

Its more likely that they told Hurley to put some numbers into to something in 1977 which came after his 2004, so he just said screw it and put in the Lotto numbers.

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Its more likely that they told Hurley to put some numbers into to something in 1977 which came after his 2004, so he just said screw it and put in the Lotto numbers.

I like this. Would be a nice resolution and I'm sure they could have Hurley finally see some closure and realize it was HIM who put the numbers in.

I really like how they can explain most of this stuff now.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Well they were broadcast over the radio tower right? When was that first broadcast made?

Let me ask you a question, Hurley in 1977 is living his present, so he already played the numbers correct? Because he already lived his 2004.

Its more likely that they told Hurley to put some numbers into to something in 1977 which came after his 2004, so he just said screw it and put in the Lotto numbers.

I think they said the broadcast had been running for 16 years.
That would put it to 1981 in Lost years correct?

So that's only 4 more years from where they are now.

But the message was in French correct? I wonder how the connection with Danielle Rousseau's crew will come into play here.

EDIT: Sorry, that's incorrect. Rosseau replaced the original message, which ran the numbers, for her own distress signal:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Distress_signal

So I wonder how long the message with the numbers was run for?
And in Rousseau's message she mentions Brennan took the keys. What keys? What are they for?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I just started thinking.......

How many flashbacks have we seen from the losties youth....Meaning can we pinpoint where they were circa 1977.

Locke....Its prettyy clear he was kicking around the United States in some capacity.

Sawyer....Don't know how old he is but circa 1977 he was hiding under a bed when the con man came in right?

Any others?

[Coug00]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I just started thinking.......

How many flashbacks have we seen from the losties youth....Meaning can we pinpoint where they were circa 1977.

Locke....Its prettyy clear he was kicking around the United States in some capacity.

Sawyer....Don't know how old he is but circa 1977 he was hiding under a bed when the con man came in right?

Any others?

Jack had a childhood flashback where he got beaten up and his Dad told him he couldn't handle failure if he tried to be a hero or something like that. It would be close to 1977, but its impossible to figure the exact year.

Sayid had a childhood flashback a couple weeks ago when he killed the chicken. He was in Iraq.

I couldn't remember any others, so I cheated and looked on Lostpedia.

• Kate & Hugo haven't had any 1977 flashbacks...they were born in that year though.
• Jin was born in 1974 and hasn't had any 1977 flashbacks, but we can assume he was in South Korea fishing.
• Sun wasn't born until 1980.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Jack had a childhood flashback where he got beaten up and his Dad told him he couldn't handle failure if he tried to be a hero or something like that. It would be close to 1977, but its impossible to figure the exact year.

Sayid had a childhood flashback a couple weeks ago when he killed the chicken. He was in Iraq.

I couldn't remember any others, so I cheated and looked on Lostpedia.

• Kate & Hugo haven't had any 1977 flashbacks...they were born in that year though.
• Jin was born in 1974 and hasn't had any 1977 flashbacks, but we can assume he was in South Korea fishing.
• Sun wasn't born until 1980.

So some of these Losties are 2 different ages in the same year? They just won't be in the same place because they are on the island.

Take Jin. So he was in a poor fishing village as a toddler in 1977. From 1974 to 1977 he also was living his present....which correlated to 2004 to 2007 on the outside world.

So that Toddler Jin grew up in his normal course married Sun, worked for her father, got on flight 815 in 2004(went back in time from 1974 to 1977) for the last 3 years and now its now 2007. 1 person, one timeline. No Problem.

The writers are going to have to be very careful with this or throw in Magical Memory earaisng temples and other gadgets or it could blow up real easily.