*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I think what alternate reality we are seeing are what will happen if Smokey gets uncorked. The key is the conversation Eloise had with Desmond about how he has everything he ever wanted, but he doesn't belong her.

Everyone's alternate reality has given them exactly what they wanted, but only if they've chosen to be with Smokey. Sayid goes with Smokey, he gets Nadia. Kate goes with Smokey, she helped Claire and Aaron be together. Sawyer is with Smokey, he is a good guy redeeming himself (and will probably meet up with Juliet at some point. He has to).

Sun and Ben decide not to go with Smokey and Ben doesn't get the new job and Sun doesn't get her baby or possibly Jin.

I think it will ultimately come down to a Matrix type thing with Smokey as the architect. You can CHOOSE to get off the Island with Smokey, and live the life that Smokey promised you (which we are seeing) - but you will know that it's not real. We are seeing the characters getting deja-vu at moments, and Desmond walking around telling them all that this isn't where they are supposed to be will set off memories for all of them like it did Charlie and Faraday.

I see where you're going with this and not to say you're wrong, but man, that would just make me sad because it is one of the few theories that pretty much guarantees that not everyone will live a life happily ever after.

If Desmond really becomes the necessary ingredient to set things straight then he is one of the few that gets what he wants (Penny). Others will die or live miserably.

[matthewk]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I think what alternate reality we are seeing are what will happen if Smokey gets uncorked. The key is the conversation Eloise had with Desmond about how he has everything he ever wanted, but he doesn't belong her.

Everyone's alternate reality has given them exactly what they wanted, but only if they've chosen to be with Smokey. Sayid goes with Smokey, he gets Nadia. Kate goes with Smokey, she helped Claire and Aaron be together. Sawyer is with Smokey, he is a good guy redeeming himself (and will probably meet up with Juliet at some point. He has to).

Sun and Ben decide not to go with Smokey and Ben doesn't get the new job and Sun doesn't get her baby or possibly Jin.

I think it will ultimately come down to a Matrix type thing with Smokey as the architect. You can CHOOSE to get off the Island with Smokey, and live the life that Smokey promised you (which we are seeing) - but you will know that it's not real. We are seeing the characters getting deja-vu at moments, and Desmond walking around telling them all that this isn't where they are supposed to be will set off memories for all of them like it did Charlie and Faraday.

I don't think that's quite right. In the Alt timeline Hugo is lucky and owns a company. Jack has a son and appears to be happy being a doctor. Ben also seemed satisfied that he was able to see his daughter (who isn't really his daughter, but he still cares for her in the alt timeline) alive and happy.

[techhokies]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I think what alternate reality we are seeing are what will happen if Smokey gets uncorked. The key is the conversation Eloise had with Desmond about how he has everything he ever wanted, but he doesn't belong her.

Everyone's alternate reality has given them exactly what they wanted, but only if they've chosen to be with Smokey. Sayid goes with Smokey, he gets Nadia. Kate goes with Smokey, she helped Claire and Aaron be together. Sawyer is with Smokey, he is a good guy redeeming himself (and will probably meet up with Juliet at some point. He has to).

Sun and Ben decide not to go with Smokey and Ben doesn't get the new job and Sun doesn't get her baby or possibly Jin.

I think it will ultimately come down to a Matrix type thing with Smokey as the architect. You can CHOOSE to get off the Island with Smokey, and live the life that Smokey promised you (which we are seeing) - but you will know that it's not real. We are seeing the characters getting deja-vu at moments, and Desmond walking around telling them all that this isn't where they are supposed to be will set off memories for all of them like it did Charlie and Faraday.

Nice theory. When they first started w/ the flash sideways, it was seemed as if everyone on Jacob's side ended up redeeming themselves in the sideways world and everyone on MIB's side stayed true to who they were in the 'original' or island world. But they only showed Jack, redeeming himself w/ his son; Ben, redeeming himself by not selling Alex out; Sayid, still killing; Jin, still killing; Kate, most likely still killing as I don't tend to believe a single thing she says. But it had many loopholes or would have taken too long to flesh out and show the storylines, like with Miles, Claire, Locke, Hurley etc...

Whereas a variation of your theory would make more sense and be more satisfying in the end.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why? To create the alternate reality in which Eloise never kills Daniel. Why is Eloise aware of the multiple realities? My guess is that she cut a deal with the MiB on the island in 1977, shortly after realizing she'd killed her son, and became his agent to make sure that everything from 1977 to 2007 happened as it should, leading to MiB's escape from the island. MiB probably offered her a deal similar to the one he made to Richard and Sayid. If she acts on MiB's behalf to make sure "what happened, happened", the time loop is now broken and a new "reality" exists, one in which Daniel doesn't have to die.

I thought this as well but what doesn't make sense is to create an entire show that ultimately is focused on individuals that didn't really matter.

That, IMO, would be terrible. So much time and investment in developing characters that don't mean anything. Pawns in a larger game.

I honestly would feel cheated as a fan of the show.

[ChaseB]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Great thoughts YankeePride. Especially the last part.
It's something I was thinking about last night as well. About which reality is the real one.
Afterall, when they crashed it was due to a major electric-magnetic overload.
Did that tear make a new reality that wasn't correct?
How many of those overloads have occurred on the island?

Eloise's motives might be simplistic in that this 'new' reality is the one she prefers because her son is alive (she did shoot him afterall). So it makes sense that she wants to keep things the way they are in the new world.

Yeah, that was my thinking after last night. She has done enough for the Island in her own mind and now she just wants her son to live. Generally, I go with the simplest explanation when it comes to Lost when it comes to certain motives like that.

I think what alternate reality we are seeing are what will happen if Smokey gets uncorked. The key is the conversation Eloise had with Desmond about how he has everything he ever wanted, but he doesn't belong her.

Everyone's alternate reality has given them exactly what they wanted, but only if they've chosen to be with Smokey. Sayid goes with Smokey, he gets Nadia. Kate goes with Smokey, she helped Claire and Aaron be together. Sawyer is with Smokey, he is a good guy redeeming himself (and will probably meet up with Juliet at some point. He has to).

Sun and Ben decide not to go with Smokey and Ben doesn't get the new job and Sun doesn't get her baby or possibly Jin.

I think it will ultimately come down to a Matrix type thing with Smokey as the architect. You can CHOOSE to get off the Island with Smokey, and live the life that Smokey promised you (which we are seeing) - but you will know that it's not real. We are seeing the characters getting deja-vu at moments, and Desmond walking around telling them all that this isn't where they are supposed to be will set off memories for all of them like it did Charlie and Faraday.

I had a sort of similar theory, but it's a bit different from yours. I feel like, yes, probably the MiB gave these people lives he thought they would like, except not all of them worked out. Sayid is "with" Nadia, but he's not "with" her and he's still a killing machine. Sun got shot in the gut, though, they are together in the U.S. now. In fact, it seems like everyone who went with the MiB got a different life -- and it does have some positives -- but the more rewarding stories have been Jack's, Ben's, Hurley's etc. So I'm not sure what that all means or what the MiB can or cannot control in the grand scheme of things in the real world.

[Steel5]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Great Episode last night!

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I don't think that's quite right. In the Alt timeline Hugo is lucky and owns a company. Jack has a son and appears to be happy being a doctor. Ben also seemed satisfied that he was able to see his daughter (who isn't really his daughter, but he still cares for her in the alt timeline) alive and happy.

Well it could be said that Smokey's promises were backhanded and not truly as promised. It also doesn't really work because Locke shouldn't fit in at all - but I still think it's SOMETHING along those lines.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Well it could be said that Smokey's promises were backhanded and not truly as promised. It also doesn't really work because Locke shouldn't fit in at all - but I still think it's SOMETHING along those lines.

Couple of thoughts;
In the sideways reality, is MIB dead? They blew up the island and it's sunk. So is smokey dead, or is he free to unleash hell on the world?

As far as Eloise, I'm not sure she foresaw this. Afterall, she told Desmond in the hospital that for the first time she didn't know what was going to happen.

I'm not sure how she knows this other reality is not 'real'. Maybe she's seen some flash's from the other world. Who knows? But I'd be surprised if she made a deal with smokie. But you never know.

I really do like the theories of smokie giving them their requests if they come with him. Sure, he sort of gave them what he promised but not the way they thought.
And so far, only Sayid has really gone to the dark side. Sawyer, Kate and Jin are all on the fence still.

[matthewk]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I don't think the alternate timeline is due to the MIB giving those on his side their wishes. There just isn't a clear distinction between those on his his side and those who are not. It seems that overall peoples lives seem better, but the Losties are still having issues there, like Sayid killing and Kate being on the run.

What if the two timelines are more fate vs. choice? The timeiline we've been seeing since the beginning may be the one that is affected by choice, while the alt one is the "fate" timeline. Throughout the show fate and choice have been brought up constantly. Maybe Jacob & the MIB is not a good vs. evil but a fate vs. choice thing too. Jacob brings people to the island, but after that he leaves things up to them. He wants them to choose and decide where their lives lead. The MIB seems more willing to interfere and direct people to where he thinks they should go.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Yea, I don't see the timelines being anything more than "this is what would have happened if they blew up the swan hatch."

I think it's just an example of no matter how much things change, they stay the same. Fortunes may be better for some over others, but you can't determine that prior to a cataclysmic event.

That's the lesson I see. The Losties thought they were making a better life for themselves, but they don't know that to be true. It's better for one person, but worse for others. Changing the past has world wide effects. Think about the people that lived on the Island. Where are they now? These are important factors to consider.

[tsalbysp]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Yea, I don't see the timelines being anything more than "this is what would have happened if they blew up the swan hatch."

Damon and Carlton have continuously said that they would not waste all this time on "what could have happened."

Just like they've said the "flash-sideways" aren't "alternate realities." They are both real, there is no "fake" reality.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Damon and Carlton have continuously said that they would not waste all this time on "what could have happened."

Just like they've said the "flash-sideways" aren't "alternate realities." They are both real, there is no "fake" reality.

No, I know that. What I'm saying is that the flash sideways is the reality that resulted from that event. I don't see it as something someone else just made happen as a promise to others.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Interesting theory I just read:

The key isn't just "love", it's also "death"



It's being said that the key for the ALT is LOVE. But it doesn't seem like it. Otherwise, Jack and Kate would have recognized themselves inside the plane. In other POV, Desmond recognizes Penny as his 'lover', but Penny doesn't recognize Desmond. Daniel recognizes Charlotte and Charlie recognizes Claire.

This is because all characters (with the exception of Desmond, check above) that proves this theory are already dead.


Jack and Kate doesn't recognized themselves because they are alive in the Main TimeLine. That applies for Sawyer too when he saw Kate (twice).

Charlie recognizes Claire because he's already dead in the MTL.

Daniel recognizes Charlotte because of the same reason.

Desmond recognizes Penny because he's the exception. He's special, he doesn't follow the rules.

I guess in the next episodes, more and more losties will recognize themselves because they are going to die in the MTL. For example, Sawyer will remember Juliet because he'll die in the MTL.

Other proofs about the relation between timelines being death, there's SUN. Sun stopped talking english as soon as was shot in the Alternate TimeLine. This is because Sun died in the ATL. Since Sun died, she started to remember the ALT in the MTL, and can't speak english, just like in the ALT.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

That's a good theory.

Is Juliet alive in the ATL?

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

That's a good theory.

Is Juliet alive in the ATL?

We haven't seen concrete evidence yet, but people assume so.