Beatles

**Bornindamecca** · 02-05-2010, 01:19 PM

Re: Beatles

By what criteria is Helter Skelter a heavy metal song? Ditto for Abbey Road and "classical". I've never heard a classical song with a similar arrangement.

That having been said, fav Beatles song is probably Come Together. Generally I like their heavier, faster, more gritty work.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:24 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Bornindamecca

By what criteria is Helter Skelter a heavy metal song? Ditto for Abbey Road and "classical". I've never heard a classical song with a similar arrangement.

That having been said, fav Beatles song is probably Come Together. Generally I like their heavier, faster, more gritty work.

Abbey Road is under "medley" since the last 6 minutes or so is straight medley. Helter Skelter is generally considered one of the first songs that inspired heavy metal, and it shares a similar sound. I guess you could call it somewhere between hard rock and heavy metal. This is for sure, no songs like that existed before it.

**Fresh Tendrils** · 02-05-2010, 01:25 PM

Re: Beatles

Helter Skelter seems like more a of a hard-rock song then metal.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:26 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Fresh Tendrils

Helter Skelter seems like more a of a hard-rock song then metal.

I've read it listed as one of the first inspirations for metal. At the time it was agruably the hardest song ever recorded, going on to loosely inspire that genre.

**Fresh Tendrils** · 02-05-2010, 01:28 PM

Re: Beatles

Right, but before then it was probably I Can See For Miles, so that should get some credit too. I love the Beatles, but they didn't inspire everything after them.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:33 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Fresh Tendrils

Right, but before then it was probably I Can See For Miles, so that should get some credit too. I love the Beatles, but they didn't inspire everything after them.

Exactly right, Mccartney heard that song and it inspired Helter Skelter, like Pet sounds inspired Pepper. But the truth of the matter is I Can See For Miles is not even nearly as hard as HS-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7As8L-0bwsM

Beatles took it to a completely different level. No way you can hear ICSFM and think heavy metal. With HS you sort of can.

**Fresh Tendrils** · 02-05-2010, 01:37 PM

Re: Beatles

Born to Be Wild was pretty damn hard.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:38 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Fresh Tendrils

Born to Be Wild was pretty damn hard.

Exactly, still no where near as hard as HS. But that in addition to HS was one of the songs that went on to inspire the genre (You can hear it in the rip of the guitar). What was that '68? Both were created around same time.

**Bornindamecca** · 02-05-2010, 01:40 PM

Re: Beatles

You can "loosely" trace the origins of anything by stretching the definition of influence until it suits you.

Bottom line, Black Sabbath is the first group to put together Heavy Metal. Yeah, yeah, they were influenced by blues and the Beatles and a bunch of other bands, but so is everyone. Black Sabbath are the real pioneers of Metal. Other people like Zeppelin, Hendrix and to a lesser degree the Beatles have influenced metal bands directly, but Sabbath is the intact foundation and blueprint.

I have never met a metalhead that considers Helter Skelter a metal song and I have also never met a metalhead that doesn't consider Sabbath a metal band.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:43 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Bornindamecca

You can "loosely" trace the origins of anything by stretching the definition of influence until it suits you.

Bottom line, Black Sabbath is the first group to put together Heavy Metal. Yeah, yeah, they were influenced by blues and the Beatles and a bunch of other bands, but so is everyone. Black Sabbath are the real pioneers of Metal. Other people like Zeppelin, Hendrix and to a lesser degree the Beatles have influenced metal bands directly, but Sabbath is the intact foundation and blueprint.

I have never met a metalhead that considers Helter Skelter a metal song and I have also never met a metalhead that doesn't consider Sabbath a metal band.

Noone is saying the Beatles were the first heavy metal band. The Beatles had one song arguably in that genre, and Black Sabbath did exclusively heavy metal. HS is alot hard than many BS songs incidently. The song is that out there for its time. Check out who Ozzy credits as his main influence.

**Bornindamecca** · 02-05-2010, 01:51 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Adam Dayton

Noone is saying the Beatles were the first heavy metal band. The Beatles had one song arguably in that genre, and Black Sabbath did exclusively heavy metal. HS is alot hard than many BS songs incidently. The song is that out there for its time. Check out who Ozzy credits as his main influence.

That's Ozzy. Geezer and Tony Iommi are a different story, lol.

HS is loud, but not hard. There is a difference. It's also harder and louder than many intense metal bands' songs, because metal bands often don't always play loud, fast or hard. However, it is not harder or louder than what is traditionally considered metal. More importantly, it doesn't bear the rhythmic or melodic roots of heavy metal, which is the real issue.

The phrasings, beats and syncopations in HS do not contain the fundamentals or building blocks of heavy metal.

And Sabbath did not exclusively do metal, do you even listen to the band?

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 01:56 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Bornindamecca

That's Ozzy. Geezer and Tony Iommi are a different story, lol.

HS is loud, but not hard. There is a difference. It's also harder and louder than many intense metal bands' songs, because metal bands often don't always play loud, fast or hard. However, it is not harder or louder than what is traditionally considered metal. More importantly, it doesn't bear the rhythmic or melodic roots of heavy metal, which is the real issue.

The phrasings, beats and syncopations in HS do not contain the fundamentals or building blocks of heavy metal.

And Sabbath did not exclusively do metal, do you even listen to the band?

I love Black Sabbath. Maybe I'm wrong but I attributed metal to the particular sound and style of the guitars. Wiki lists that as part of its defining criteria-

the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness

**Bornindamecca** · 02-05-2010, 02:13 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Adam Dayton

I love Black Sabbath. Maybe I'm wrong but I attributed metal to the particular sound and style of the guitars. Wiki lists that as part of its defining criteria-

the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness

^^^^but that's not what they always played.

**Adam Dayton** · 02-05-2010, 02:19 PM

Re: Beatles

Originally posted by Bornindamecca

^^^^but that's not what they always played.

Huh, I listed that as showign that Helter Skelter shares elements to what is thought as a "classic" heavy metal song. Anyway, the point of the "genre" or style list was to showcase the unprecedented diversity of the group. I will change Helter Skelter to hard rock for the sake of getting back on topic.

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