New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

I'm going to have to agree with Seymour and Kingkilla on this one. As much as I loved the series the finale left me saying "That's it?". It almost felt was if there should have been another episode or two, but HBO said nope only 8 episodes so that had to wrap it all up in a nice pretty little bow.

Honestly, it kind of reminded me of Man Men in that there were all of the wild theories floating around and in the end they basically turned out to be nothing. It was just all on the surface the entire time. Things like the flat circle talk, Audrey setting the dolls up, etc. were just them messing us just to mess with us. In the end, I felt that some of the theories worked up my random people on the internet were better than the finale itself.

I also wasn't a fan of how Rust came off in the end. It just seemed totally out of character from what we've learned about him in the past 7 episodes. In the hospital when Marty told him that they "couldn't catch them all" he just totally accepted that. Didn't he just spend the last 20 years obsessing about this case and about how "rich men are doing horrible things" now he's just going to let it all go? Also throughout the entire show Rust has felt guilty and has basically wanted to die. However, after he has a near death experience and see's his daughter, plus has the added guilt of knowing that he already met the killer before, now he wants to keep living. Okay?

Honestly, I would have been much more satisfied if either a) they would have just said that Tuttle, Errol, his father, Ledoux and the drug dealer where the "Five Horseman" (at least that we have have closure with the case) and b) if Rust would have just ended up dying, but would have had his moment of "seeing the light/the light winning" just before death.

With all of that said I did really love the series. The acting, especially from McConaughey, was some of the finest that I've ever seen. The story overall was good, not great. I did like the way it was told over 20 years, but other than that it wasn't really anything ground breaking. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us in Season 2. Part of me would love to see a continuation of this story with new detectives, but I don't know if that could work. Either way it's going to have some big shoes to fill.

I agree with everything in your post. Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the Rusty and Marty characters are played out and having them continue in season 2 would be anti-climatic and stale. There is not much more you could do with these characters that wouldn't feel recycled.

I like the fact that they will go with new actors and storylines with every new season. But they do have to be careful with the symbolism and red herrings next year if they aren't going to offer much of a payoff and have this big buildup but then resort to the conventional ending.

I think the other problem I had with the ending was the Childress character wasn't fleshed out enough for my liking. It was tough to feel the tension when the spaghetti monster was only vaguely hinted at in the first 6 episodes, and then only introduced at the end of the 7th. In the finale there was only a brief flashback of him and some throwaway talk with his half sister. You never really got the sense of what he was all about or why he should be so feared so the last chase for him wasn't as tense as it could be.

And the way Childress died did feel like a cheesy horror movie ending. I had the same problem with Ledux who at least had more build up but then was shot matter of factly and we really found out nothing about him or what his real role was.

All in all I still really liked the show but like you said, it needed another couple of episodes, everything felt rushed in the finale (for a show that felt so deliberate adn measured it shot through with Dexter like speed and logic to find the killer. New green paint related to green ears? Really? they clued into that after 17 years?) so they could get to the last 15 minutes and resolve the Marty\Rusty relationship.

[JBH3]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

One thing that would've been nice is to figure out how that one guy died in jail.

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Not really a spoiler I don't think: for those wondering about why the body was posed, the fact that the two detectives in 2012 were investigating another one (the girl strung up on the bridge) might indicate it is some component of the ritual. Maybe these women did something in their lives to distinguish them from other victims?

Here's my best guess. Errol Childress (the Spaghetti Monster) and the Ledoux cousins were the "muscle" of the cult that involved the Tuttles and others. In 1995, they killed and displayed Dora Lange without the permission of the cult "elders" (who seemed to favour child victims as opposed to adult women). The Tuttles et al were understandably nervous about Cohle's and Hart's investigation and made sure Errol kept his activities on the down low; between 1995 and 2010, his victims simply disappeared. With the Rev. Tuttle committing suicide in 2010, as well as several cult elders dying over the years (including Errol's father/grandfather), it's safe to assume there was no longer anyone to keep Errol in check, and he once again felt free to display his "handiwork."

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

One thing that would've been nice is to figure out how that one guy died in jail.

Not sure if it was mentioned in the show or in an interview, but one of the deputies at that jail was a Childress, from which we can infer that the prisoner was eliminated to prevent any links being revealed.

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

If you don't already watch it, then catch up with the Spaghetti Monster himself on Boardwalk Empire

"Remus is shocked and appalled at what his scarred doppelganger has been accused of."

- George Remus

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Here's my best guess. Errol Childress (the Spaghetti Monster) and the Ledoux cousins were the "muscle" of the cult that involved the Tuttles and others. In 1995, they killed and displayed Dora Lange without the permission of the cult "elders" (who seemed to favour child victims as opposed to adult women). The Tuttles et al were understandably nervous about Cohle's and Hart's investigation and made sure Errol kept his activities on the down low; between 1995 and 2010, his victims simply disappeared. With the Rev. Tuttle committing suicide in 2010, as well as several cult elders dying over the years (including Errol's father/grandfather), it's safe to assume there was no longer anyone to keep Errol in check, and he once again felt free to display his "handiwork."

That wouldn't make sense to me. Why drawn any attention to yourself with advertizing any if the murders. That would be incredibly stupid on thier part. And they were so quick to kill Rev Tuttle for having his house broken into and the video stolen and bringing attention to themselves. If secrecy was the most important thing then they would have killed Errol back in 1995 if they killed Rev Tuttle so easily.

The more this plot is examined, the more it shows how flawed and flimsy it is and really just there to act as background noise for the 2 main characters. I don't think this series would stand up to repeat viewings. Even the events between the 2 characters was ordinary and formulaic. Marty screws around, gets caught, begs for forgiveness, gets caught again, wife screws Rusty for revenge, big fight, they go their separate ways.

The real beauty of the series was just the random exchanges between Rusty and Marty. Anyone looking any deeper into the series won't really find anything because it's not there.

[fistofrage]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

That wouldn't make sense to me. Why drawn any attention to yourself with advertizing any if the murders. That would be incredibly stupid on thier part. And they were so quick to kill Rev Tuttle for having his house broken into and the video stolen and bringing attention to themselves. If secrecy was the most important thing then they would have killed Errol back in 1995 if they killed Rev Tuttle so easily.

The more this plot is examined, the more it shows how flawed and flimsy it is and really just there to act as background noise for the 2 main characters. I don't think this series would stand up to repeat viewings. Even the events between the 2 characters was ordinary and formulaic. Marty screws around, gets caught, begs for forgiveness, gets caught again, wife screws Rusty for revenge, big fight, they go their separate ways.

The real beauty of the series was just the random exchanges between Rusty and Marty. Anyone looking any deeper into the series won't really find anything because it's not there.

The story, the entire story was always about the dialogue and exchanges between Rust and Marty. Everything else was just noise. It was pretty good noise with the back drop of Louisiana and a hint of the occult and definitely caught everyone's attention, but that was really just filler. Rust could have been a war veteran broken by what he saw during the war an Marty could have been his partner narcotics vice squad and you could have ended up with the exact same story/dialogue with the exact same ending.

That being said, I think it is worth a re-watch though because Woody and Matthew delivered with some of the best acting I've seen in a long time.

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

That wouldn't make sense to me. Why drawn any attention to yourself with advertizing any if the murders. That would be incredibly stupid on thier part.

Errol and the Ledoux boys didn't strike me as terribly sharp. The cult elders are unlikely to have Errol & co. killed because a.) they needed the muscle/drugs, and b.) family is family. They didn't kill indiscriminately.

And they were so quick to kill Rev Tuttle for having his house broken into and the video stolen and bringing attention to themselves. If secrecy was the most important thing then they would have killed Errol back in 1995 if they killed Rev Tuttle so easily.

I thought Reverend Tuttle committed suicide because he thought he was going to be blackmailed with the tape.

The more this plot is examined, the more it shows how flawed and flimsy it is and really just there to act as background noise for the 2 main characters. I don't think this series would stand up to repeat viewings. Even the events between the 2 characters was ordinary and formulaic. Marty screws around, gets caught, begs for forgiveness, gets caught again, wife screws Rusty for revenge, big fight, they go their separate ways.

The real beauty of the series was just the random exchanges between Rusty and Marty. Anyone looking any deeper into the series won't really find anything because it's not there.

You're just as cranky here as you are on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Errol and the Ledoux boys didn't strike me as terribly sharp. The cult elders are unlikely to have Errol & co. killed because a.) they needed the muscle/drugs, and b.) family is family. They didn't kill indiscriminately.



I thought Reverend Tuttle committed suicide because he thought he was going to be blackmailed with the tape.





You're just as cranky here as you are on Rotten Tomatoes.

LOL, I've been exposed. Not bad considering I go by a different user name over there. Good find. Who do you post as over there?

Actually I think I'm alot more surly over there but then again its a lot more confrontational because you got some arrogant pricks posting. The posters here are much more respectful.

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

LOL, I've been exposed. Not bad considering I go by a different user name over there. Good find. Who do you post as over there?

Actually I think I'm alot more surly over there but then again its a lot more confrontational because you got some arrogant pricks posting. The posters here are much more respectful.

Same name, but I haven't posted there for years. Too much political bickering for my liking. Lurk on occasion.

[CMH]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

I feel as if I had the benefit of watching this series without being sucked into the theories fans were talking about on a weekly basis. I mean I was aware of the theories, but since I mostly binged watched the show over one week, I wasn't aware of the connection between the episode I watched and the theory being built off it.

For starters, I want to mention that the orgasm for the one shot scene was a bit much. It was nothing special and I don't understand why anyone in the digital age gets excited for these things anymore. It wasn't even visually pleasing of a shot and took you out of the scene far too often to even be memorable.

Second, I agree the acting was great and the dialogue between characters was special. The writing in that respect is undeniably good. I think if you didn't enjoy the dialogue writing, you wouldn't have stuck around no matter how you felt about the show's theories and ending.

And now to talk about the elephant in the room. My opinion is people are disappointed with the ending because they wanted it to be bigger than it was. Actually, I'm sure that's pretty much a fact for those that didn't enjoy it.

I also kinda take offense to anyone saying the show built up this large mystery and then didn't explain any of it because...well, the show didn't make up the mystery! The fans did. Twitter did. You guys did. Everyone else was talking up the Yellow King into this big fantastical thing. The only thing Rust and Marty did was find it curious that someone would be called the Yellow King and want to discover who it was.

Never did either character or the series make claim that the Yellow King was in relation to the old story, nor that it held some sort of theme to the show's intent. It was always just a piece of the series that ended up becoming something bigger than it ever was intended to be.

And I know someone will say: "Then why put it in there at all?" Well because doesn't every cult have a following for a reason? Doesn't every cult believe in something? This was what they believed in. It was their Edgar Allan Poe, their King James, their Charles Manson.

Rust and Marty never wanted to solve the mystery behind the meaning of the Yellow King; they wanted to find the Yellow King. They did that. The show delivered on the goals of the characters.

What it failed in doing is living up to the theories fans created on their own. That's a you problem.

[Bruins]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Great post. I agree with everything, except this part:

For starters, I want to mention that the orgasm for the one shot scene was a bit much. It was nothing special and I don't understand why anyone in the digital age gets excited for these things anymore. It wasn't even visually pleasing of a shot and took you out of the scene far too often to even be memorable.

Why was it a big deal? Because it's a ****ing hard type of shot to do. Took you out of the scene? It made the viewer feel like they were right there with Rust trying to escape. Not to mention the technical problems that have to be solved to accomplish the shot as perfectly as they did. It really was a masterful piece of filmmaking. Watch the clip below if you don't get why.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3MxWghCIpww?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[CMH]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Great post. I agree with everything, except this part:
Why was it a big deal? Because it's a ****ing hard type of shot to do. Took you out of the scene? It made the viewer feel like they were right there with Rust trying to escape. Not to mention the technical problems that have to be solved to accomplish the shot as perfectly as they did. It really was a masterful piece of filmmaking. Watch the clip below if you don't get why.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3MxWghCIpww?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I understand the technical difficulties but it was a long shot for stylistic reasons is how I see it.

I don't see the reason to make that take but to have a shot people could talk about being cool or difficult to shoot.

A long shot that actually has a purpose is the restaurant scene in Good Fellas.

True Detective's shot could have been kept you right in there without doing all that. Just my opinion of course.


Sent from my mobile device.

[DrJones]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

BTW, although it's never explicitly stated, I'm pretty sure this is the "Yellow King".

[JayBee74]

Re: New HBO Series True Detective (McConaughey and Harrelson)

Great post. I agree with everything, except this part:
Why was it a big deal? Because it's a ****ing hard type of shot to do. Took you out of the scene? It made the viewer feel like they were right there with Rust trying to escape. Not to mention the technical problems that have to be solved to accomplish the shot as perfectly as they did. It really was a masterful piece of filmmaking. Watch the clip below if you don't get why.

I agree. Great post by CMH but that sequence was seamless. The only thing that quelled my enthusiasm was that I knew Rust was getting out of there. I didn't know that in the "gut wrenching" last episode.