Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

[Blzer]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Hm, this sounds about right. Honestly, I think (though I haven't seen the movie i'm going by what i've read) that the people behind this are doing a great disservice by making it 90% crazy action. At least the Marvel movies try to tell an overarching story and the action while not as awe inspiring at least ratchets up with each set piece culminating with the big end scene.

This movie is like 5% action.

[SPTO]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

This movie is like 5% action.

Really? Well that's great. I can't wait to watch it when the director's cut comes out.

[Blzer]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Really? Well that's great. I can't wait to watch it when the director's cut comes out.

I'm being very exaggerating about that number, but it's not just a brainless brawl either.

I don't know if this is related to the topic or not, but I kind of wish the film was just titled "Dawn of Justice." Would have made the effects of the morals told a little stronger for me, IMO. For those that are questioning what a film title has to do with the film, we may just have different opinions about that... but I think there is a big correlation between a film's title and its tone (look at other films called Drive Angry and Shoot 'Em Up).

[mestevo]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Batman: Dawn of Justice would have been perfect.

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[Ermolli]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pTuyfQ5CR4Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jm0ney2001]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Omg so dead on and hilarious. Shows exactly why this movie was sooo bad.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Spider-man has more lines in CW than Superman has in BvS.

[Leon]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

This is pretty cool. Wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFO3GWxk5Ra/

[mestevo]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Executive shakeup at DC as a result of this debacle, the oft-brilliant architect Geoff Johns will now co-run the DC films division.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-v-superman-fallout-warner-895174

[Blzer]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

^ While that's more than a good idea, it's just way too late. I've thought since day one that releasing this kind of film at the beginning was just a crap idea, and the execution behind it was even worse. They should have thought of this long ago.

EDIT: I don't mean it's too late for the DC universe, I'm saying that Batman v Superman could have happened under this management and probably fared much better, not to mention at a different time.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Damned if you do, damned if you don't apparently.

I don't think BvS' problem was putting the horse in front of the cart. If nothing else it has increased the interest for a Wonder Woman film and somehow gotten people excited for a Batman film following up arguably the best superhero trilogy.

The film has its share of problems, but I don't think its too late to try and fix the universe.

[Boltman]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

EDIT: I don't mean it's too late for the DC universe, I'm saying that Batman v Superman could have happened under this management and probably fared much better, not to mention at a different time.

I figured that's what you meant and I agree, they went about this film about as wrong as you could've took it on.

Universe is completely salvageable though.

[Blzer]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

Damned if you do, damned if you don't apparently.

I don't think BvS' problem was putting the horse in front of the cart. If nothing else it has increased the interest for a Wonder Woman film and somehow gotten people excited for a Batman film following up arguably the best superhero trilogy.

We've probably had this go-around before, but my argument has since changed with regard to my reasons behind it. Previously, it was more about: "Create their origin stories by themselves so you don't have to later." I understand the counter-argument is: "A medley film will pick up interest for the individual parts later." Marvel did it just fine: let what happens in Phase One take its own place (and look, plenty of people including myself went to see Thor, even though I thought it was mediocre), get The Avengers going, then move onto Phase Two.

My take this time has much more to do with emotional ties. This film really is built on emotions. They had me at the beginning because I had seen Man of Steel, so I had something to base the destruction on. But as the film went on and there were more things that were either supposed to grab you or sway on one side or the other, I just didn't "care" enough. I realized this once I saw Civil War. There is a dialogue exchange between CA and IM that goes like: "He is my friend." "So was I." It gets to me, too! Sure, they've shared two films together already at that point, but they have also had two (three for IM) standalone films each as well. The framework that was laid down for those lines don't end up becoming an Internet joke of some kind.

Also, I don't read the comics enough to understand how Doomsday evolves over time, and obviously they're going with a new Lex, but it seems they blew their own load a bit by the end with little to go off of in the surprise market, either for the audience or the characters. For example...

The Dark Knight Rises spoiler:

Spoiler

Gordon gets shot in TDK, is presumed dead, is discovered alive and well, etc. Well, in TDKR he is hit by bullets again. You just can't do it twice. You obviously aren't going to kill him, otherwise you're throwing us into a sick cycle carousel of the same thing happening over and over. Oh wait, wasn't that the entire TDKR plot? Bruce is hobbled, things go bad, gets back into the game... becomes hobbled again, things go bad again, gets back into the game again. Even that lost its steam a second time.

Person of Interest S5 spoiler:

Spoiler

While I have yet to see the most recent episode from last night, the one from Monday has Shaw shooting Reese and taking her own life, only to wind up being a simulation. That's all good and fine, I have no problem with the "it's just a dream" thing. The problem is if they decide to go any route that threatens or claims their lives again, either they will go through with it another time and I'll already have been desensitized, or I as an audience member know that's what the writers are thinking, therefore I feel they are protected hereon out.

So now, at this point for this DC universe, you can't just go off and...

Spoiler

... kill Superman again...

... without us feeling very numb to it. I'm glad we got one movie before all of this, but it would have felt a little better had we got another Superman sequel that really was just about him being Superman within the city. Yeahhh I get that wouldn't work given the story line they wanted to provide with BvS (or at least the reason behind BvS), but it did kind of make me chuckle when it said "18 MONTHS LATER" after the destruction of it all. Bruce sure holds grudges for a long time without doing anything about it. I almost felt like there was a statute of limitations that Supes would have thrown out to Bats, like: "Wait, why are you beating me up again? Dude, that was like over a year ago!" Little quibbles like that.

The only redeeming quality is it seems most of the standalone films will be prequels and not sequels. That being said, Batfleck is already past his golden age, so they better start filming damn soon before he gets one too many gray hairs there.

The film has its share of problems, but I don't think its too late to try and fix the universe.

I don't disagree with that at all.

However, and maybe I'm reading into this the wrong way... as truly excited as I am for Suicide Squad, I'm wondering how this also works in the whole universe. Is it before or after BvS? Either way, without knowing the ending, either these villains all break loose and do their thing, or they are vindicated and set off to do their thing, or whatever the case may be, and as much of protagonists as they are, I find it odd that we are actually going to truly being caring and rooting for the villains. How will I feel when one of our heroes has to face them? It's different in Civil War: all of those guys are painted as our heroes. Killer Croc, on the other hand, is one of Batman's biggest foes. How am I supposed to feel if Bruce takes him on at some point? If I end up feeling conflicted, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of having heroes and villains?

Just a thought that has crossed my mind once or twice.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

I still don't see why failing to properly develop a Superman you're emotionally invested in is mark against their approach for universe building. Whether Superman dies now or later has nothing to do with having a Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Latern, etc solo film before a "team-up" movie.

You're personally and emotionally invested in those Marvel characters because you've seen them on screen for a billion hours. Whether or not they've been developed properly is an argument itself, but at this point I think its more due to familiarity of seeing them on screen rather than having an actual tangible relationship developed. Frankly, Civil War is the product of a well-oiled machine that knows its characters well and has clear, non-contrived, motivations. It works in the film even if that's all you've seen. The punch of Superman's death wasn't developed or built up to very well. It basically just felt like a plot point being hit. Still, it didn't keep me from being excited about and enjoying Wonder Woman or the new Batman.

As for Suicide Squad you're asking questions that can only be answered by watching the movie. Having conflicted feelings about heroes and villains is a plus to me. It adds depth to areas where Marvel is woefully shallow which is having an adequately developed villain. Being able to relate to and root for a team of them is pretty interesting to me. Seeing how they all get folded back into (or not) Batman's world is interesting, too.

[Blzer]

Re: Batman Vs Superman - Dawn Of Justice

I still don't see why failing to properly develop a Superman you're emotionally invested in is mark against their approach for universe building. Whether Superman dies now or later has nothing to do with having a Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Latern, etc solo film before a "team-up" movie.

You're personally and emotionally invested in those Marvel characters because you've seen them on screen for a billion hours. Whether or not they've been developed properly is an argument itself, but at this point I think its more due to familiarity of seeing them on screen rather than having an actual tangible relationship developed. Frankly, Civil War is the product of a well-oiled machine that knows its characters well and has clear, non-contrived, motivations. It works in the film even if that's all you've seen. The punch of Superman's death wasn't developed or built up to very well. It basically just felt like a plot point being hit. Still, it didn't keep me from being excited about and enjoying Wonder Woman or the new Batman.

Once again, something I don't disagree with you about. I think we're arguing about heads and tails on two different coin flips here.

I'm excited about Batman and Wonder Woman, more so than I would have been without this movie before it. I just feel the other way around holds more merit, and furthermore makes more sense (unless, again, they are all prequels... but it doesn't help the punch that the team-up movie has IMO).

All that being said, I didn't love The Avengers. Heck, I enjoyed Age of Ultron so much more. However, the first time we got this:



It wasn't a "hellllll yeahhhh" as a result of having waited two hours to see it, but rather it was after having waited five films to see it.

I think the independent films will do well, and furthermore I think the next team-up movie will be great as well. But, as we have all said and as the article maintains (especially with the decisions they have made moving past previous executives), this is not the way they wanted to kick-start their universe. It could have been handled differently, and given the right timing I think the exact movie they put out (or the three-hour rated R version) could have also been much more impactful, especially emotionally. Feel free to disagree, but that's just my opinion.

As for Suicide Squad you're asking questions that can only be answered by watching the movie. Having conflicted feelings about heroes and villains is a plus to me. It adds depth to areas where Marvel is woefully shallow which is having an adequately developed villain. Being able to relate to and root for a team of them is pretty interesting to me. Seeing how they all get folded back into (or not) Batman's world is interesting, too.

That's definitely true. I'm just curious about how it will lead into things, especially when, as I said, this is as the beginning of the universe and not the end. DC is jumping into this where these characters have already existed, and for a long time to boot. No origin stories to speak of yet outside of Superman, which may be fine... just different, and possibly not as long-lasting as Marvel's.