Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

[Smallville102001]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Dude......I simply telling you we can agree to disagree. We are both right.

It’s subjective. If you think it is a top 4.....it’s your top 4. For me...not even top 5.

It’s all good.

And that’s laughable to you. Like me thinking your taste in Star Wars films is clearly not mine.

All good.

While I just don't get the love for RO and like I said I don't think 4 has aged while and even if you put 4 above then I don't see how this is not better then at least 1-3 and RO and that would mean then 5th then but yeah its all good. Its not that people have to agree with me its just I am sure there are some opinions that people have that make you think what and to me that is one.

1. ROTJ
2. TFA
3. ESB
4.NH
5. ROTS
6. RO
7. AOTC
8. TPM

I don't know where I put This movie but it is top 4 for sure.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

While I just don't get the love for RO and like I said I don't think 4 has aged while and even if you put 4 above then I don't see how this is not better then at least 1-3 and RO and that would mean then 5th then but yeah its all good. Its not that people have to agree with me its just I am sure there are some opinions that people have that make you think what and to me that is one.

1. ROTJ
2. TFA
3. ESB
4.NH
5. ROTS
6. RO
7. AOTC
8. TPM

I don't know where I put This movie but it is top 4 for sure.

Well in all fairness.....I have only seen TLJ once. I am going again this week for a second viewing with my son.

But as of right now:

1) ESB
2) ANH
3) ROTJ
4) RO
5) TFA
6) ROTS
7) TLJ
8) TPM
9) AOTC

It could go past Episode III with repeated viewings....but I know it will not go into my top 5. No way. Rogue One for me as an old school Star Wars fan was so good. The last 40 minutes of that movie may be the most epic Star Wars battle in the series history. Just intense and it felt like war movie. I loved it.

The tension of having to get those Death Star plans was immense and they captured it brilliantly.

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

Rey lineage reveal:
this one I blame 150% on the filmmakers. They're the ones who dangled this carrot in front of us in TFA. Tease upon tease. Then scolded us in TLJ for it with a "Shame on you for thinking her parents were important". This was the only payoff I found to be insulting to the audience.

Spoiler

I think the theme of "normal people can be heroes" was so extreme throughout the movie that I'm leaning towards Kylo's reveal about Rey's parents being a lie.

1) Kylo isn't revealing all his cards. I do think he knows who her parents are but lied to see how she'd react. I don't think Rey is strong enough with the Force to learn about her parents with complete certainty.

2) As mentioned above about the theme, I think this will be a surprise twist and be one of the few things that still points to a "special" person in Rey.

3) It's an homage to Obi-Wan lying to Luke in Ep 4, "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father."

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I don't get the complaints that people have with the comedy in this movie at all. The first joke early in the movie I thought was kind of stupid and didn't work but I thought ever other comedy moment worked just fine. I do think TFA did the best job with comedy of any star wars movie though.

Spoiler

In most cases, it doesn't fit with the characters or situation at all. Much of it is pointless slapstick/one-liners meant for cheap laughs. The rock falling into the nun's cart after Rey slices it in half? WTF? What's the point? That's the kind of pointless, forced humor that plagued the prequels. That stuff will be so awkward when people are re-watching this a decade down the road. BB-8 with the coins in the casino? So bad. The OT didn't have forced comedy. It didn't have comedy for the sake of comedy. It had cheesy but well-timed comedy that fit into a scene.

The two that killed me with Luke and were SO out of place for how they handled his character...

1) The flip of the lightsaber over his shoulder. We end TFA with that remarkable expression on Luke's face. We wait two years. We get back to that scene and he does a 180 and throws it over his shoulder. Details matter. If he simply dropped it and walked away it would have fit his character and situation so much better. He's a broken old man in the film, filled with regret. He's sullen and bitter. That's fine, but then they inject awkward humor into his character to the point where he felt like a mix of ESB's eccentric Yoda and broken old man Luke Skywalker. It doesn't work at all.

2) Brushing off his shoulder after the AT-AT bombardment. Ugh. So cringey. Again, forced and unnecessary. Who in the world would believe Luke Skywalker would do something like that? If you're even a mild Star Wars fan that stuff has to drive you crazy. It's lazy, inconsistent writing aiming for cheap laughs.

I'm sure some pay more attention to this kinda stuff than others, but it was major drag on the movie for me. It's hard to connect to characters when I'm rolling my eyes every few minutes at their awful jokes.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Kinda long. Just a list of some issues with the movie I had.

Spoiler

So when I say unearned payoffs, I mean ending to story threads that happen before all the elements of that story thread are explored on screen.

So I'm just gonna list a couple off without giving too much more commentary.

Snoke's abrupt death

Kylo deciding to kill Snoke

Phasma dying...again

Poe becoming a top commander

Rey lineage reveal:
this one I blame 150% on the filmmakers. They're the ones who dangled this carrot in front of us in TFA. Tease upon tease. Then scolded us in TLJ for it with a "Shame on you for thinking her parents were important". This was the only payoff I found to be insulting to the audience.

Things that stick out in general as odd:

Rose randomly being in love with Finn. And Finn seemingly reciprocating it. Where the hell did this come from?

Rose surviving

Finn surviving

The rose and Finn story being included in the film at all. It was pointless. Finn is pointless. He is becoming Jar Jar. Why did they think to turn his character into this? Hell they even distanced him as a love interest from Rey because even they think he isn't worth her. I mean wtf.

Rey and Kylo "sexual tension" Force Skype conversations. If these two make out in episode 9, the communal rage of the fanbase may destroy the planet.

Why did Leia and Holdo keep their plan secret??? All they did was cause more problems by doing so.

Why is everybody all of a sudden an expert pilot when they need to be?

Kylo asks Rey to join him, leaving the sith and Jedi in the past. Immediately re pledges to dark and hunts down last members of the light? Ok.

Where are the Knights of Ren?

Why were some others of Luke's disciples so quick to escape with Ben Solo? Luke never *almost* kill them too did he?

The movie wants us all to leave the past in the past....Rey steals Jedi books to preserve them.

Poe hitting Rey with the "I know" line to Rey. Don't do it Disney.

And plenty more but I'm tired. And I'll bow out for now.

I really can't wait to see episode 9. I want to see how they work this jumbled mess into a grand finale.

There were many things I did like though. I don't want to make it sound like I HATED the film. It's like a 6 or a 7. But it's not about to win an oscar for screenplay or directing or anything. Visuals maybe.

Spoiler

A lot of these I agree with.

Snoke was not given the time he needed to make his death really impactful. Looking back I almost wish he had just stayed the giant holohead for this movie, especially because he could just show off using the force from wherever he was.

The more I think about Kylo killing Snoke the more I dislike it. It's the end I wanted to get to, but I don't feel satisfied having gotten there. Kylo's motivations are still really unclear, what are his intentions? Why kill your master to save Rey of all people? They've shown us that they're connected obviously but I still don't feel like I know why.

Phasma was indeed useless but I figured she would be after she was useless in TFA. Poe being a commander is a weird gripe to me. After the events of TFA, you don't think he's earned his rank? Luke was Lt Commander after ANH.

I feel like people just got themselves too excited waiting for a Rey lineage reveal. I rewatched TFA and felt like the best clue was Maz telling her something like her story is written in the future and not the past when she keeps insisting on going back to Jakku. I think they're going out of their way to tell people she isn't special and they just don't believe them lol.

Agree on Finn and Rose, more time only adds more confusion as to why that stuff was included. The only one of the Rey/Kylo scenes that bothered me was the one with his shirt off where she makes the comment about it. Just felt weird, might not seem so odd when I see it outside of the theater.

The keeping the plan secret thing didn't bother me but I guess I see why it would others. I guess I just look at it like military orders, doesn't matter what the plan is, do what you're told kinda stuff.

He went back to the dark side because he woke up with Hux right there. He panicked and took the easy way out, he's not really ready to go off on his own.

No idea where the Knights are, were they in TFA? I'd hope they show up in 9 now that Kylo is the Supreme leader.

Maybe the other kids just believed in the dark side as well?

I definitely need to see it again. I also wonder how many of these are being set up to be answered in Ep 9.

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

The problem I have with Rey’s lineage is if she really is a nobody then why did Luke’s lightsaber call to her? Why did she see visions specific to Luke? And why did Obi-wan speak to her in her vision. That ties her to those characters.

Sure Lucas was flawed in his execution of getting the prequel stories made but he had the story and he stuck to it. I feel like Lucasfilm didn’t have a firm story from the beginning for this trilogy because what seemed important in TFA just doesn’t seem to matter anymore.

Rey’s lineage was important in TFA and Ren and Snoke knew about her. There was some backstory to her in that movie that they knew, now there is nothing. Unless Ren was lying to her, I sure hope so.

There were some cool parts in the movie and I’m looking forward to seeing it again, but I’m hoping the second viewing helps with the problem areas more than just me seeing the good parts again.

Leia flying through space was just so hokey. There is zero evidence she has the Force powers to do that.

The lightsaber flip was awful and that soured the movie for me from the start. I really hope I can get past that in the second viewing.

I was also upset that Luke died the way that he did. I know they were going for the Obi-wan approach of joining the Force on his own terms but i can’t believe we never get to see Luke in action for real.

The more I think about the movie the more irritated I get.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

It was better for me on the second viewing. My expectations weren’t as high, I guess. My initial impression still holds true: it’s good but far from great. I still much prefer Force Awakens in the new trilogy.

[mestevo]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

The problem I have with Rey’s lineage is if she really is a nobody then why did Luke’s lightsaber call to her? Why did she see visions specific to Luke? And why did Obi-wan speak to her in her vision. That ties her to those characters.

Sure Lucas was flawed in his execution of getting the prequel stories made but he had the story and he stuck to it. I feel like Lucasfilm didn’t have a firm story from the beginning for this trilogy because what seemed important in TFA just doesn’t seem to matter anymore.

Rey’s lineage was important in TFA and Ren and Snoke knew about her. There was some backstory to her in that movie that they knew, now there is nothing. Unless Ren was lying to her, I sure hope so.

There were some cool parts in the movie and I’m looking forward to seeing it again, but I’m hoping the second viewing helps with the problem areas more than just me seeing the good parts again.

Leia flying through space was just so hokey. There is zero evidence she has the Force powers to do that.

The lightsaber flip was awful and that soured the movie for me from the start. I really hope I can get past that in the second viewing.

I was also upset that Luke died the way that he did. I know they were going for the Obi-wan approach of joining the Force on his own terms but i can’t believe we never get to see Luke in action for real.

The more I think about the movie the more irritated I get.

When in doubt... 'because the force'.

[Behindshadows]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

The problem I have with Rey’s lineage is if she really is a nobody then why did Luke’s lightsaber call to her? Why did she see visions specific to Luke? And why did Obi-wan speak to her in her vision. That ties her to those characters.

Sure Lucas was flawed in his execution of getting the prequel stories made but he had the story and he stuck to it. I feel like Lucasfilm didn’t have a firm story from the beginning for this trilogy because what seemed important in TFA just doesn’t seem to matter anymore.

Rey’s lineage was important in TFA and Ren and Snoke knew about her. There was some backstory to her in that movie that they knew, now there is nothing. Unless Ren was lying to her, I sure hope so.

There were some cool parts in the movie and I’m looking forward to seeing it again, but I’m hoping the second viewing helps with the problem areas more than just me seeing the good parts again.

Leia flying through space was just so hokey. There is zero evidence she has the Force powers to do that.

The lightsaber flip was awful and that soured the movie for me from the start. I really hope I can get past that in the second viewing.

I was also upset that Luke died the way that he did. I know they were going for the Obi-wan approach of joining the Force on his own terms but i can’t believe we never get to see Luke in action for real.

The more I think about the movie the more irritated I get.

Spoiler

Other than the fact! She's Vader's Daughter and her son and daughter Rey have powers. It's all genetic within their bloodline.

Even in the books she was a Jedi, that's a given that she's always had them.
Even in Episode VII she felt solo's death and knew things were going on in places using the force!

[kingkilla56]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

I think the theme of "normal people can be heroes" was so extreme throughout the movie that I'm leaning towards Kylo's reveal about Rey's parents being a lie.



1) Kylo isn't revealing all his cards. I do think he knows who her parents are but lied to see how she'd react. I don't think Rey is strong enough with the Force to learn about her parents with complete certainty.



2) As mentioned above about the theme, I think this will be a surprise twist and be one of the few things that still points to a "special" person in Rey.



3) It's an homage to Obi-Wan lying to Luke in Ep 4, "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father."

In my original longer post I did mention this idea. But I began rambling so I rewrote the entire post.

I want to think it is Kylo playing mind games. But as you say, a major theme is linage doesn't matter, the person matters. So how can they go back on that now? Taking that reveal back at this point would be a mistake imo.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I was disappointed in this movie. And the more I think about the movie the more annoyed I get. After reading that this movie was supposed to rival Empire and seeing that it got 93% on Rotten Tomatoes I really thought we would get a good movie. So wrong. Force Awakens was so much better (despite the re-use of the Death Star which annoyed me).

I actually liked the humour in it. There were some good action scenes but outside of Rey, Luke and Kylo the rest of the movie was just gigantic, unrealistic filler crap that dragged the movie well past the 2 hour mark and left me hoping for the movie to end. So many unrealistic head scratching moments too. Outside of Rey/Luke/Kylo we learned nothing else in this movie. The rest of the movie could be cut out and nothing changed.

Spoiler

The entire movie was filler and failed to even make sense. This was nothing more than a huge car chase scene across the galaxy waiting for the rebels to run out of gas. Seriously? That's the best you could come up with while Rey encountered Luke and Kylo? The idea that the huge Empire army can't fly as fast as the rebels so we'll just wait them out over the course of the 2.5 hour movie is just bad. And Leia gets blown into outer space but doesn't die? Somehow the Force powers saved her? Not the worst stretch with Luke spanning half the galaxy to communicate with people using the force as a hologram and delay Kylo at the end of the movie. At least that was a cool scene but I guess there are no rules or limitations as to what the Force can do now.

Poe is no Han Solo. I think he's supposed to take his slot as the hothead, charasmatic fly boy but he's nowhere near as good. The amount of excused mutiny goes overboard too as his character is overly stereotyped. I don't hate him but I don't love him. I really liked Finn in Force Awakens but his character was a waste of time in this movie like most of the others. You re-use the "gotta take the shield down" subplot one more time and nobody even cared about it. All of the Rebel leaders on the cruisers arguing over how to waste film time added zero to the movie and just delayed it.

I personally did not have a problem with Luke's character and his actions outside the super Force hologram stretching the powers of the force. The original movies were a lot more subtle with the power of the force. And Luke assumes the Obi-Wan role by giving his life up to the Force. One of the better scenes was Snoke, Rey and Kylo but did anyone have any doubt as to what the outcome was going to be there? They just ripped off the Return of the Jedi scene because nothing original happens anymore apparently. Just re-use "take down the shield", "Death Star", etc.

One last "super realistic" plot line. Rebels are holed up in their final, old base and they can't escape because there is only the giant front door? Nobody designed other exits? Are you kidding me? So the Empire is focusing this massive force and super cannon (mini Death Star) to take down their blast door to fully finish the rebels holed up in this otherwise impenetrable base except it's not impenetrable. In fact, the white crystal coyote finds there is just some rubble lying around the back that just needs to be moved out the way to get out. I guess the First Order should have tried shooting at the back of this base/cave which would have been easier.

In the end this movie accomplished next to nothing outside of Snoke dying and Kylo being the new leader. The rebels are still small and on the run. Back to square one with almost no overall plot advancement and just ridiculous and unrealistic writing. People could watch episode 7 and then jump to episode 9 and almost nothing would need to be explained.

[Herky]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Overall I really liked the movie and want to see it again.

One big question I still have...

Spoiler

Where are/what happened to the Knights Of Ren. Luke said Kylo took some students with him when he burned down the academy but we've never seen them. If they are all dead who killed them? Did Luke run away right after Ben became Ren or did he take out the students? Maybe that will be explained but you'd think if any were left they would have been there at the assault near the end.

One thing I didn't like in the movie...

Spoiler

The Leia floating in space scene was just silly. Especially the long shot of her.

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

After watching it twice, I still don't understand...

Spoiler

... how the Codebreaker knew Admiral Holdo's evacuation plans to the rebel base so that he could sell out Finn and Rosa as a bargaining chip. Not even Poe knew of her plans, and he was on board with her.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

After watching it twice, I still don't understand...

Spoiler

... how the Codebreaker knew Admiral Holdo's evacuation plans to the rebel base so that he could sell out Finn and Rosa as a bargaining chip. Not even Poe knew of her plans, and he was on board with her.

Spoiler

After Poe finds out, he mentions it to Finn as they’re heading toward Snoke’s ship. They show the Codebreaker overhearing that conversation.

[eremiomania]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Life long fan. Loved Force Awakens and Rogue One. Was so excited after reading the early impressions and then the reviews. I did not like this movie.

Spoiler

Yes, there was some amazing action, but I just really hated everything they did with Luke. That alone was enough to ruin the movie for me. I won't complain about the lack of a pay off to the Snoke and Rey's parents mysteries, but man I want to scream from a mountain top "REMEMBER ANAKIN AND OBI WAN'S FINAL BATTLE?? WELL GET READY FOR HOLOGRAM LUKE TO DO A COUPLE MATRIX MOVES ON KYLO REN BEFORE DYING BECAUSE REASONS. WTFFFFF!!!!!" OMG I'm sorry, but I am getting angrier about Luke as I write this. When he walked out to face Kylo, I was so excited. If they were going to kill Luke off, couldn't they have at least had him actually show up and have a big lightsaber fight before eating it??

*EDIT*

Reading back through the thread and do see a lot of people loved the movie. I want to love it. Please explain to me how to be ok with

Spoiler

how they handled Luke. Especially cheating us of an actual final showdown and instead him never even leaving the damn island. I hated that.