Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Well after having days to process it and seeing it twice, I'd rank this movie on par with Episode 3. It's better than 1 and 2 but I'm not sure it's better than 3 because of how emotional and tense the final battle between Anakin and Obi was. Nothing in Episode 8 felt as emotional as "You were the chosen one!"

I'd probably rank them

IV
V
VII
VI
R1
III
VIII
I
II

I'm still waiting to see it a second time but your rank of it is right with mine although the other movies are a little different. I go, but really IV and V and interchangable but V has a better lightsaber battle:

V
IV
VII
III
R1
VI
VIII
I
II

[SinisterAlex]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I watched TLJ on launch night and I've given myself time to sit back and think about the movie in general before giving my thoughts. I don't feel like going into a multi paragraph post so I'm going to try to make this short and sweet.

Spoiler

I'm terribly disappointed with The Last Jedi. For me the movie itself was such a mess. I enjoyed TFA even though it was A New Hope reskinned. I found TFA had good pacing and it built up the plot incredibly well and have a very convincing climax and end, I didn't find that the case with TLJ. I didn't feel any sort of buildup within the plot. No real character development happened IMO. There wasn't any point during the movie where I was starting to get onto the edge of my seat anticipating an intense climax. Instead it was just a boring, dull and slowly progressing story that answered nothing.

Everything that JJ Abrams setup in episode 7 was practically thrown out by Rian Johnson in episode 8. The end of episode 7 was setup as this intense moment between Luke and Rey. In the end it was nothing. This buildup towards Rey's lineage thrown away in episode 8. This mystique about Snoke thrown away (though I understand removing Snoke for plot reasons to further Kylo Ren's plot). I could go on and on about this. Just everything that was setup in episode 7 was entirely thrown away in episode 8.

As for Luke I just don't understand. I can see maybe Luke being paranoid about the dark side after dealing with his father but Luke trying to kill his own nephew because he felt the dark side within him? SMH. Luke felt the tiniest bit of good in his father and practically gave his life away to save Anakin from the dark side. Yet he feels a tiny bit of dark side in Ben and just decides not to try and save him and just kill him?! That's not Luke's character nor is it the way of the Jedi. As for the last scene with the force hologram I have no words.

I could talk about the casino scenes and the pointless resistance/ first order space chase scenes, wasting Captain Phasma again, Rose being a boring character, the awkward comedy, etc etc but then this post will become a novel.

I don't hate the movie. It has it moments but for me personally it's just a mess. It's like Rian Johnson wanted to keep us on our toes and tried to surprise us over and over again but only for it to fall flat. None of the "twists" shocked me nor was I surprised. I was left bitter and more annoyed. JJ Abrams has his work cut out for him for episode 9 that's for sure. JJ should've written and directed the entire trilogy IMO. Would've been much more consistent from both story and directing.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I watched TLJ on launch night and I've given myself time to sit back and think about the movie in general before giving my thoughts. I don't feel like going into a multi paragraph post so I'm going to try to make this short and sweet.

Spoiler

I'm terribly disappointed with The Last Jedi. For me the movie itself was such a mess. I enjoyed TFA even though it was A New Hope reskinned. I found TFA had good pacing and it built up the plot incredibly well and have a very convincing climax and end, I didn't find that the case with TLJ. I didn't feel any sort of buildup within the plot. No real character development happened IMO. There wasn't any point during the movie where I was starting to get onto the edge of my seat anticipating an intense climax. Instead it was just a boring, dull and slowly progressing story that answered nothing.

Everything that JJ Abrams setup in episode 7 was practically thrown out by Rian Johnson in episode 8. The end of episode 7 was setup as this intense moment between Luke and Rey. In the end it was nothing. This buildup towards Rey's lineage thrown away in episode 8. This mystique about Snoke thrown away (though I understand removing Snoke for plot reasons to further Kylo Ren's plot). I could go on and on about this. Just everything that was setup in episode 7 was entirely thrown away in episode 8.

As for Luke I just don't understand. I can see maybe Luke being paranoid about the dark side after dealing with his father but Luke trying to kill his own nephew because he felt the dark side within him? SMH. Luke felt the tiniest bit of good in his father and practically gave his life away to save Anakin from the dark side. Yet he feels a tiny bit of dark side in Ben and just decides not to try and save him and just kill him?! That's not Luke's character nor is it the way of the Jedi. As for the last scene with the force hologram I have no words.

I could talk about the casino scenes and the pointless resistance/ first order space chase scenes, wasting Captain Phasma again, Rose being a boring character, the awkward comedy, etc etc but then this post will become a novel.

I don't hate the movie. It has it moments but for me personally it's just a mess. It's like Rian Johnson wanted to keep us on our toes and tried to surprise us over and over again but only for it to fall flat. None of the "twists" shocked me nor was I surprised. I was left bitter and more annoyed. JJ Abrams has his work cut out for him for episode 9 that's for sure. JJ should've written and directed the entire trilogy IMO. Would've been much more consistent from both story and directing.

Excellent post. Pretty much how I feel. I don’t hate the movie, will see it again and by no means is it a stinker. But it really crapped all over everything TFE set up for it.

Spoiler

Especially that amazing chill inducing ending to TFE. They made a mockery of it.

Disney is not infallible. And they **** the bed giving Rian Johnson this movie and I hope they did not **** the bed giving him the entire new trilogy that will come after this set in an entirely different galaxy and be a true new Star Wars adventure.

And are we going to keep spoilers going even after the weekend? I mean you would think everyone coming into this thread would have seen this after this weekend.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Question for the older fans:

Spoiler

When Empire came out, obviously there was no internet so opinions couldn't be shared so easily, but how many people left the theater convinced that Vader was lying about being Luke's father? Serious question, I just wonder if they spent the next 3 years waiting for the debunk and then were disappointed with the end result.

On the other hand, if it turns out in Episode 9 that Kylo was just trying to manipulate Rey and was lying, is it still the case that they threw away the lineage reveal?

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

I'm confused with everybody saying that Kylo is throwing Rey off the scent. Wasn't Rey the one who said they were nobody? There he was going, "Go on, say it. I know you know, it's okay." I don't think he manipulated her using the force, either. So far it seems like she is now besting him in that department, and if she was manipulated I think she would know.

Now, was Kylo correct in that they were junkers or whatever, stating things that she maybe knew less about and just knew that they abandoned her? That I don't know. But the "nobody" trail has been speculation for quite some time, alongside being Luke's daughter, Obi Wan's granddaughter, yada-yada... or maybe Yoda's adopted kid heh.

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L9hwGZFPSmw" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thought this review was fantastic and covered a lot of the issues that fans had with the movie. Spoilers, obviously.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Question for the older fans:

Spoiler

When Empire came out, obviously there was no internet so opinions couldn't be shared so easily, but how many people left the theater convinced that Vader was lying about being Luke's father? Serious question, I just wonder if they spent the next 3 years waiting for the debunk and then were disappointed with the end result.

On the other hand, if it turns out in Episode 9 that Kylo was just trying to manipulate Rey and was lying, is it still the case that they threw away the lineage reveal?

Spoiler

OK so I was 10 years old and we all waited with baited breath for confirmation of this.

I thought Vader was totally telling the truth. Especially after he said..."search your feelings, you know it to be true" And also when Vader called out to him when he was on the Falcon....it was pretty obvious to me.

But we needed confirmation and got it from Obi Wan.

In this case with the Last Jedi, I don't believe Kylo is telling the truth. And if he is.....again I feel the storyline is weak sauce making her parent irrelevant. Then why strand her on a desert planet? Give me details. I really hope it is a troll job by Kylo. I really believe She is Leia and Han's daughter and Luke brought her there for her protection. I got the feeling she was with just how the chemistry was between her and Han on the Falcon. Wow The Force Awakens was so much better every time i think about it. Just so much better.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

OK so I was 10 years old and we all waited with baited breath for confirmation of this.

I thought Vader was totally telling the truth. Especially after he said..."search your feelings, you know it to be true" And also when Vader called out to him when he was on the Falcon....it was pretty obvious to me.

But we needed confirmation and got it from Obi Wan.

In this case with the Last Jedi, I don't believe Kylo is telling the truth. And if he is.....again I feel the storyline is weak sauce making her parent irrelevant. Then why strand her on a desert planet? Give me details. I really hope it is a troll job by Kylo. I really believe She is Leia and Han's daughter and Luke brought her there for her protection. I got the feeling she was with just how the chemistry was between her and Han on the Falcon. Wow The Force Awakens was so much better every time i think about it. Just so much better.

Spoiler

That's cool to hear. I was just reading a article about James Earl Jones reading his script and wondering "Wow he must be lying. How are they going to play that off?" Made me think.

The thing that made me ask is exactly the thing that convinced you that Vader was telling the truth. That scene plays out so much like Empire. Kylo basically tells her to tell the truth she already knows, and then she reveals they were nobody. It's very similar, but people aren't seeing it that way.

The more I think about it the more I think JJ should've just directed the entire trilogy. It's like this: imagine you're a director that's been coming up with Star Wars stories your whole life (Rian Johnson). You finally get the chance to do it and... You've gotta clean up all the **** the last guy did and answer questions you never even wanted to ask, while trying to find a way to take a movie exactly like A New Hope and not follow it up with a movie exactly like Empire. Just must be tough. You're trying to create something new and the guy you're following just brought back all the old stuff and told you to figure it out.

The other thing is that JJ was extremely complimentary of the script, said it was so good he regretted not being able to direct it himself, and also executive produced the movie and clearly has a hand in the overall direction of the trilogy. Yet people talk like "Oh now JJ has to come back and clean up this mess" like he wasn't there the whole time. I dunno, I just need Episode IX to come out already lol.

[Cardot]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I enjoyed it. But I am not much of a critic, and always enjoy Star Wars films....even the prequels!! I grew up with the Original Trilogy and spent 16 long years in my teens and 20's wondering what the Clone Wars were all about, and what the SW universe was like as a republic with many Jedi, as well as the Vader/Kenobi battle etc. So despite some things in the prequels I might have done differently, I still enjoyed the overall experience. And I have continued that approach with VII-IX.

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

Not really a spoiler, but Luke said he'd give Rey three lessons. I only recall him giving her two.

I guess they left the third one on the editing room floor?

[boomhauertjs]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Spoiler

Not really a spoiler, but Luke said he'd give Rey three lessons. I only recall him giving her two.

I guess they left the third one on the editing room floor?

Yes

Spoiler

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/1...-third-lesson/

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Wow, I feel like people would've hated that.

[KSUowls]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

A lot to catch up on. Hope I formatted all of this right.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan who was immensely disappointed with TLJ.

Spoiler

I have no problem going in a different direction, to a certain extent, but this was a discombobulated disaster. From a general movie perspective, removing the Star Wars label, this was a terrible movie. Bad writing, bad characters, bad pacing, plot holes, too many irrelevant characters/plots getting too much screen time, etc.

It felt like a B-movie from the Marvel/DC universe with a dash-too-much of Guardians of the Galaxy. From that perspective, this was not a Star Wars movie. It felt like every other half-baked, stick-to-the-formula, uninteresting film series from the last decade. I'm guessing that those who like Marvel/DC movies that get churned out year after year are the fans who enjoyed TLJ. I personally can't stand those movies as there's zero emotional connection and they all feel the same - that's what I felt with TLJ. My emotions were not stirred throughout the movie outside of Finn's near-kamakazee stunt. As much as TFA was a remake of ANH, it did move my emotions. Rogue One obviously did, I wouldn't argue with someone who said RO is the best Star Wars movie after ESB.

Kylo Ren was the only bright spot of the movie, he's essentially what Anakin should have been in the prequels. Outside of him, the writing and dialogue were so poor. The first hour and a half, every character felt wooden.

Luke, man what a controversial topic his character is. I don't hate where they were going with his character but the execution of it was dreadful. I understand why Mark Hamill disagreed with the script - it didn't feel like Luke at all, even if it's been three decades since we've seen him. He's been a hermit on this island for who knows how long, the fact that his biggest ambition in his life was a failure eating away at him - and he still has time for bad/cheesy/out-of-place humor. So, so bad.

Finn and Rose, don't even get me started there.

The new Force abilities made no sense. The Jedi are essentially gone yet two relative novices in Rey and Kylo are able to use this powerful, never before seen telepathy/hologramming - whatever you want to call it. Luke is a disaster of a Jedi master who've we been told as shut off The Force yet he's able to use that ability as well? Leia Mary Poppins-ing through space - my Lord the cringiness. And we still can't get a battle scene besides Vader in RO where a Jedi/Sith actually use their Force abilities. Kylo and Rey fight the handful of red dudes after killing Snoke and don't think to use a Force Push or Choke. It'd make the battle just a tad easier.

And that brings me to the comedic relief...

At one point I thought I was watching Spaceballs. The comedy was forced, too frequent, out of place and cringe-worthy. It repeatedly killed any emotional connection that was building. I literally face-palmed when Luke threw his lightsaber over his shoulder. You can get your point across in a much more poignant way. Have him drop it, have him hand it back to Rey, etc. His line of, "You thought I'd show up with a laser sword and save the day?" My Lord, shoot me. Brushing his shoulder off after the AT-AT bombardment. Ugh, so unlike Luke's character. This movie truly felt like a bad parody at times.

While TLJ isn't as bad as the prequels, the forced comedy was nearly as bad. The best Star Wars films have their brand of cheesy humor but it's well-timed and rare. There's a certain charm to it. I would say that TLJ failed miserably to achieve that charm but I think it's evident that they didn't set out to do so.

Ultimately, Disney is doing exactly what I feared when they bought LucasFilm, they're turning Star Wars into a garbage, shallow series like the Marvel/DC movies. It's cash cow time. There is no turning back from here - Star Wars is in the Disney machine and will now abide by their movie formula. If we're now going to get stuff like BB-8 commandeering an AT-ST, saving the day and then we learn that AT-STs can now sprint - then I want out. The uniqueness of Star Wars and its emotional appeal is likely gone forever.

Spoiler

I share some of those complaints, but I wouldn't take them that far. The movie/characters definitely lacked any emotional investment. That doesn't make it a bad movie imo, it just prevents it from being a great work of art. I'm one of those people who enjoy the Marvel movies because they're entertaining, and that is my only expectation of them.

I wasn't a fan of the Force connection between Rey & Kylo (because I think it's a silly way of driving conflict in any form of writing), but it was driven by Snoke. He created that connection so it wasn't like it was those 2 doing it. I also wouldn't call Kylo a novice. He trained with Luke for seemingly several years, and he's been under Snoke's direct tutorship for ~6 years as of this new trilogy. Rey's skills don't make a lot of sense given her apparent lineage though.

100% agree on the humor being over the top/forced. TLJ had several genuinely funny moments, but it had many others that just didn't fit. It certainly seemed to be "trying" to keep the movie light hearted, which is unfortunate after Rogue One showed that War is dark. I literally rolled my eyes after about the 5th "joke" in the first 10 minutes of the movie (I think it was the lightsaber flip).

Spoiler

What makes you think that? The point was that anyone could be special, like Rey. They busted the idea that you had to have a particular bloodline, etc.

The kid has hope, the spark is still alive, that's all it takes.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Spoiler

That's what I took from that scene as well. Like there are pockets of resistance in every corner of the galaxy, even some young slave kid is willing to fight back.

Spoiler

The more I think about the movie the more irritated I get.

Spoiler

Ha, I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the movie, and I had several very critical impressions of the movie walking out of the theater. Under more scrutiny though this movie failed in a lot of ways that are very irritating. Someone mentioned that this new trilogy is not going to stand the test of time, and I can't help but to agree. I loved TFA and I liked TLJ. It's very apparent that the two were not written by the same person though, and that's very unfortunate. Again, I enjoyed TLJ, but under scrutiny I can't help but feel like I just had a piece of the new Star Wars trilogy I was so excited about stolen from me.

*EDIT*

Reading back through the thread and do see a lot of people loved the movie. I want to love it. Please explain to me how to be ok with

Spoiler

how they handled Luke. Especially cheating us of an actual final showdown and instead him never even leaving the damn island. I hated that.

Spoiler

I actually liked that. I mean I hate that Luke is gone, but it was kind of cool that he denied Kylo Ren the satisfaction/closure of killing Luke himself. Though after showing the X wing in the water I thought for sure he would have shown up in person.

Spoiler

I'm confused with everybody saying that Kylo is throwing Rey off the scent. Wasn't Rey the one who said they were nobody? There he was going, "Go on, say it. I know you know, it's okay." I don't think he manipulated her using the force, either. So far it seems like she is now besting him in that department, and if she was manipulated I think she would know.

Now, was Kylo correct in that they were junkers or whatever, stating things that she maybe knew less about and just knew that they abandoned her? That I don't know. But the "nobody" trail has been speculation for quite some time, alongside being Luke's daughter, Obi Wan's granddaughter, yada-yada... or maybe Yoda's adopted kid heh.

Spoiler

I agree. That part is what makes me hesitate in thinking that Kylo wasn't lying. The one way they might get around that though is if whoever her real parents are left her with these junkers for some reason when she was a baby, and then those junkers abandoned her without telling her that her real parents were someone else.

I guess another possible way to get around it is that her "junker" parents weren't truly "junkers", but were living as "junkers" in hiding and had to leave her on Jakku to protect her.

[WDOgF0reL1fe]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I personally love

Spoiler

What they did with Luke. I get where the criticism comes, but to me this just shows his inner battle with how good/bad he was as a teacher and a "representative" for the Jedi and all that it stands for.
He still has demons after all these years and doesn't know how to react with Rey and the resistance showing up at his doorstep. (You could make the argument that he should have seen this coming, but I truly believe he closed himself off from the force and everything it stands for)

He failed Ben Solo and didn't WANT to kill him as shown in all the flashbacks.
So make with that what you will, but he was torn on the inside his entire life.
He wasn't the "badass" people thought he was supposed to be, but he was never that. He did what he was supposed to do, give an illusion of the hero he was his entire life.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

OK second viewing in the theater this Saturday morning with my son. Maybe I will have some more good thoughts....or even more less than stellar thoughts.

We shall see.