Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

[dagger55]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

That is beside the point. Neither XBox 360 or PS3 really need to have an HD-DVD or BluRay drive. Games for both systems would fit on standard DVD's. In fact, I imagine that all PS3 games will initially be on DVD's just as early PS2 games were all on regular CD-Roms. Until the cost of BluRay media comes way down, there is no need for Sony to cut into their profit margin, especially when all that extra space isn't even needed.

I do, however, think that Sony and game publishers are going to see a lot of potential to use all that extra disc space for marketing purposes. Game makers could easily fill the disc with game trailers and demos, movie and dvd trailers, extra bonus features for the game itself, and even music demos and/or soundtracks. We are seeing more and more of that stuff already in games, so with more disc space at their disposal, it will just increase tenfold once the cost per unit becomes acceptable to them.

Back on topic, the reason for Sony putting BluRay drives in PS3 has nothing to do with games. It is simply about them gaining market penetration. BluRay is their proprietary format, so they have every incentive to get players into as many homes as possible. That way, they can get a huge head start on HD-DVD, and eventually strong arm all the movie studios into backing their format instead of HD-DVD and winning out. It looks pretty convincing when they can go to these studios and say "hey, we already have a user installed base of 10 million, while there have only been 500,000 or less HD-DVD players sold to date". Microsoft is not the creator of HD-DVD, so they have no incentive to increase their manufacturing cost (as well as retail cost) of their consoles to get the players into homes. Toshiba (HD-DVD proprietor), however, would love to get their drives into the 360, as it will give them a chance against Sony, so it will be real interesting to watch
this whole thing unfold.

i like the way you think.... i beat to the post by about 5 min

but all very good points. i think the 360 gets an HD drive for free in it

[luv_mist]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

Now, if only other companies would take these types of plans toward pushing their products forward. Honestly, I'm loving the fact that the XBOX 360 could have HD power in all facets of gaming. The thought of being able to get that HD-DVD for a reasonable price would definitely make me want to buy and XBOX 360. For some reason, I do have a hatred towards Sony. Why, I don't know. Always hated the big guys. However, this time it might be different. Definitely could make and break the Sony gaming world. Oh, and if Sony uses regular discs to put their games on, does that mean that they'll have their games going for the supposed $60 like every site foretells? That's my question for the night.

I definitely see this getting pretty good. However, I somehow think that Sony will get that significant lead over MS because of the supposed "quality" that the movies could have as well as the hype of the PS3. Still, it is up in the air. Oh, I wonder....who patented the 800 GB DVD thing that was in this thread not too long ago? Flawless or someone who read it, drop the knowledge for us lesser thinkers in here please. That might also have something. So many questions. They need to make a video game out of this where two companies are competing against each other or something....or maybe not....

[mjb2124]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

For some reason, I do have a hatred towards Sony. Why, I don't know. Always hated the big guys.

Microsoft's one of the "big guys" as well!

I don't think Sony is using regular discs either. They're using Blu-Ray. To the best of my knowledge, most games will be $60 this year. My guess is that if Xbox games are $60, Sony games will be the same and vice versa.

Both systems will be great IMO. Hopefully the developers can quickly find all the ways to take full advantage of the power that both these systems will have.

[Victory]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

That is beside the point. Neither XBox 360 or PS3 really need to have an HD-DVD or BluRay drive. Games for both systems would fit on standard DVD's. In fact, I imagine that all PS3 games will initially be on DVD's just as early PS2 games were all on regular CD-Roms. Until the cost of BluRay media comes way down, there is no need for Sony to cut into their profit margin, especially when all that extra space isn't even needed.

I do, however, think that Sony and game publishers are going to see a lot of potential to use all that extra disc space for marketing purposes. Game makers could easily fill the disc with game trailers and demos, movie and dvd trailers, extra bonus features for the game itself, and even music demos and/or soundtracks. We are seeing more and more of that stuff already in games, so with more disc space at their disposal, it will just increase tenfold once the cost per unit becomes acceptable to them.

Back on topic, the reason for Sony putting BluRay drives in PS3 has nothing to do with games. It is simply about them gaining market penetration. BluRay is their proprietary format, so they have every incentive to get players into as many homes as possible. That way, they can get a huge head start on HD-DVD, and eventually strong arm all the movie studios into backing their format instead of HD-DVD and winning out. It looks pretty convincing when they can go to these studios and say "hey, we already have a user installed base of 10 million, while there have only been 500,000 or less HD-DVD players sold to date". Microsoft is not the creator of HD-DVD, so they have no incentive to increase their manufacturing cost (as well as retail cost) of their consoles to get the players into homes. Toshiba (HD-DVD proprietor), however, would love to get their drives into the 360, as it will give them a chance against Sony, so it will be real interesting to watch
this whole thing unfold.

If HD-DVD comes at no cost to us, and that is certainly possible because I am sure there won't be a price increase just maybe a delay in the first price drop, then, obviously, I have no problem with it. I agree that even the Blu-Ray format that will appear on ALL PS3 consoles won't get used
very much because there are not many games close to full DVD size. The HD-DVD on the XBOX 360 can't even be used for trailers because there is no way they sell two different versions of a game - a DVD for early boxes and and HD-DVD with trailers. And I do understand that the console makers are eating a good chunk of the cost of the hardware. They always have done that before just to get the system into people's homes.

But I think this time they are eating the costs not to make a better system that people will want in their homes but to promote other parts of their business. Sony includes a Blu-Ray player and another video out for another HDTV (a Sony HDTV I'm sure they hope) but then to cut the cost of manufacturing the system they take out the Harddrive? That's good for gaming? Yes we get the first two features, which won't be used much for gaming, for cheaper than manufacturing cost, but this costs us the one feature that developers have the best chance of actually using.

I predict:
The 360 HD-DVD will NEVER be used for gaming because it isn't going to be in all 360's and the people that don't have it probably won't even be able to upgrade it even if they wanted to.

The PS3 expansion HD will not be used very much because, just like the PS2, it isn't standard. Maybe a game or two hear than there will have features for Hard Drive owners but they will be few and far between.

The 360 HD will probably start getting some actual use in development on 360 only games but not nearly as much as it would if these features could be ported to the PS3. IMO, lack of a standard Hard Drive was as big of a limiting factor on this gen's games as memory or processing power. The lack of a standard Hard Drive on the PS3 is a huge disapointment.

The second video out on the PS3 will rarely be used for gaming because whatever features you add with it can't be proted to the 360 and hardly anybody will have a hardware setup to give them the full effect of this anyway.

The Blu-Ray feature won't be used much for actual game features because that space probably isn't needed just yet and the cost of the Blu-Ray disc itself. We may see some use on PS3 exclusives later in the gen as games inevitably grow larger and manufacturing costs go down.

Yes, I know we are getting all this below manufactuing cost but what good does that really do us gamers?

[dagger55]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

If HD-DVD comes at no cost to us, and that is certainly possible because I am sure there won't be a price increase just maybe a delay in the first price drop, then, obviously, I have no problem with it. I agree that even the Blu-Ray format that will appear on ALL PS3 consoles won't get used
very much because there are not many games close to full DVD size. The HD-DVD on the XBOX 360 can't even be used for trailers because there is no way they sell two different versions of a game - a DVD for early boxes and and HD-DVD with trailers. And I do understand that the console makers are eating a good chunk of the cost of the hardware. They always have done that before just to get the system into people's homes.

But I think this time they are eating the costs not to make a better system that people will want in their homes but to promote other parts of their business. Sony includes a Blu-Ray player and another video out for another HDTV (a Sony HDTV I'm sure they hope) but then to cut the cost of manufacturing the system they take out the Harddrive? That's good for gaming? Yes we get the first two features, which won't be used much for gaming, for cheaper than manufacturing cost, but this costs us the one feature that developers have the best chance of actually using.

I predict:
The 360 HD-DVD will NEVER be used for gaming because it isn't going to be ina all 360's and the people that don't have it probably won't even be able to upgrade it even if they wanted to.

The PS3 expansion HD will not be used very much because, just like the PS2, it isn't standard. Maybe a game or two hear than there will have features for Hard Drive owners but they will be few and far between.

The 360 HD will probably start getting some actual use in development on 360 only games but not nearly as much as it would if these features could be ported to the PS3. IMO. lack of a standard HD was as big of a limiting factor on this gens games as memory or processing power. The lack of a standard Hard Drive on the PS3 is a huge disapointement.

The second video out on the PS3 will rarely be used for gaming because whatever features you add with it can't be proted to the 360 and hardly anybody will have a hardware setup to give them the full effect of this anyway.

The Blu-Ray feature won't be used much for actual game features because that space probably isn't needed just yet and the cost of the Blu-Ray disc itself. We may see some use on PS3 exclusives later in the gen as games inevitably grow larger and manufacturing costs go down.

Yes, I know wew are getting all this below manufactuing cost but what good does that really do us gamers?

oh i agree i dont wouldnt think the HD-dvd would get alot of use for gaming if it wasnt standard, but it would be used for viewing high def dvds, which is a very very good feature to have. however, if toshiba is able to get that baby in 360 for launch, then i would have to say that most future games for the 360 will be using an HD-DVD to store its contents

[luv_mist]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

oh i agree i dont wouldnt think the HD-dvd would get alot of use for gaming if it wasnt standard, but it would be used for viewing high def dvds, which is a very very good feature to have. however, if toshiba is able to get that baby in 360 for launch, then i would have to say that most future games for the 360 will be using an HD-DVD to store its contents

In my mind, I see it being a heck of a lot of time to put an HD-DVD into the first 360s shipped out. I know that MS is backing up the HD-DVD push against the Blu Ray. What I want to know is why is everyone doubting that the HD-DVD doesn't have a chance of making the first waves of 360s when we're 4 months away from launching? What has to happen and by when? I know it doesn't take that long to make those systems. Making a slight alteration wouldn't put them back a month or two would it? Is there a chance that the hardware might have a slight "rejection" of the HD-DVD causing a later release date or even some faulty 360s? Break it down for me playas....Break It Down....

[mjb2124]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

In my mind, I see it being a heck of a lot of time to put an HD-DVD into the first 360s shipped out. I know that MS is backing up the HD-DVD push against the Blu Ray. What I want to know is why is everyone doubting that the HD-DVD doesn't have a chance of making the first waves of 360s when we're 4 months away from launching? What has to happen and by when? I know it doesn't take that long to make those systems. Making a slight alteration wouldn't put them back a month or two would it? Is there a chance that the hardware might have a slight "rejection" of the HD-DVD causing a later release date or even some faulty 360s? Break it down for me playas....Break It Down....

I think the problem is that HD-DVD players are still in a late beta stage. Earlier in the year I heard the very first HD-DVD players to hit the market would possibly be released in the 4th quarter this year with a pricetag over $1000.

I think there's about a 1% chance Xbox360 gets an HD-DVD player. I also would be leery if it did. First generation technology is often buggy and takes some time to work out the kinks.

It takes a long time to get all these things to work. I'd guess manufacturers have been working on HD-DVD players for over a year now. Just a guess though....

[Kodiak33]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

I think the problem is that HD-DVD players are still in a late beta stage. Earlier in the year I heard the very first HD-DVD players to hit the market would possibly be released in the 4th quarter this year with a pricetag over $1000.

I think there's about a 1% chance Xbox360 gets an HD-DVD player. I also would be leery if it did. First generation technology is often buggy and takes some time to work out the kinks.

It takes a long time to get all these things to work. I'd guess manufacturers have been working on HD-DVD players for over a year now. Just a guess though....

I'm sure you guys know this, but both drives (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) will play CDs and DVDs as well. The only problem is paying for the drive itself, which if Microsoft doesn't get a deal with Toshiba, it probably won't happen. I don't think Xbox360s have gone into production yet, so they have a little more time to hammer the details. The other thing to think about is firmware updates (maybe over Xbox Live) in case they do supply an HD-DVD drive, which could hammer out some of the kinks in the first generation. More and more drives are doing this today.

[luv_mist]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

I'm sure you guys know this, but both drives (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) will play CDs and DVDs as well. The only problem is paying for the drive itself, which if Microsoft doesn't get a deal with Toshiba, it probably won't happen. I don't think Xbox360s have gone into production yet, so they have a little more time to hammer the details. The other thing to think about is firmware updates (maybe over Xbox Live) in case they do supply an HD-DVD drive, which could hammer out some of the kinks in the first generation. More and more drives are doing this today.

That's one of the key things that I know they're holding down. Honestly, I'm hoping they ship it. I'm slowly gaining that money foundation for my HD-TV and XBOX 360. If they ship it out on the first shipment, I'm definitely getting one. If not, then I'm definitely going to wait until they put one in if that's the plan. On another note, that Live 06 definitely made me looks sour at the system....

[MrScary]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

Well, in all honesty, HD-DVD is in fact an inferior product to BluRay based on storage size alone. In reality, it doesn't mean much, though, because we all know that Betamax was technically superior to VHS and it lost out, and SACD and DVD-Audio are both far superior to standard CD's but have yet to gain acceptance as well.

I don't see this as all that big a deal, to be honest. Microsoft throwing their support behind HD-DVD is nice just because it gives the HD-DVD camp one more big backer, but it isn't like Microsoft is using the format for the xbox 360, like Sony is doing with BluRay for the PS3. Had that been the case, it would likely have much more impact than it is going to.

All of that being said, I still won't be surprised in the slightest if HD-DVD ends up winning the format war. BluRay has more backing and is picking up more steam, but there is a lot to be said about the fact that HD-DVD's can already be mass produced using existing technology, and on top of that, HD-DVD is a much more consumer friendly name than "BluRay". Never underestimate the ability of Joe Six Pack to be easily confused, and confusion usually equals no purchase.

I don't think this actually accurate. Most movie studios prefer HD-DVD over Blu-Ray because of cost. And at the moment our economy is horrible. And cost is a big deal now. Especially after the summer blockbusters doing so bad at the box office.

[Kodiak33]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

I don't think this actually accurate. Most movie studios prefer HD-DVD over Blu-Ray because of cost. And at the moment our economy is horrible. And cost is a big deal now. Especially after the summer blockbusters doing so bad at the box office.

Didn't Toshiba come out with a new HD-DVD that had about 60-80 gigs? I thought I read that recently.

[SportsorDeath]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

I don't think this actually accurate. Most movie studios prefer HD-DVD over Blu-Ray because of cost. And at the moment our economy is horrible. And cost is a big deal now. Especially after the summer blockbusters doing so bad at the box office.

Just off the top of my head....

HD-DVD currently has Warner and Universal committed to them exclusively.

BluRay has Sony pictures (obviously), the whole MGM library which they purchased, Disney and 20th Century Fox.

Is it still all that inaccurate to you?

[Flawless]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

Toshiba developing Xbox HD-DVD player?

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/gossip/xbox-2/index.php

[dagger55]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

quote from the article:
Oh, and the Toshiba folks also spilled the beans on HD-DVD and the Xbox 360, saying that the next-gen console will use the new format for its media and whining about how Microsoft is dragging their feet on the official announcement.

[luv_mist]

Re: Microsoft to help produce HD-DVD players...

quote from the article:
Oh, and the Toshiba folks also spilled the beans on HD-DVD and the Xbox 360, saying that the next-gen console will use the new format for its media and whining about how Microsoft is dragging their feet on the official announcement.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!! DEFINITELY GOT Reading the article....

Definitely beautiful. Also, an HD-XBOX?? That'll definitely be interesting. I'd love to upgrade to that if it was cheap. I definitely need to get an HD-TV. Anyone know when the official hardware is going to be announced for Microsoft? I'm curious about that. Definitely siked....