Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

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  • KBomber
    Pro
    • Nov 2003
    • 512

    #1

    Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

    For the last few years, one of the great, largely unrecognized video game development teams was found in a little company located in the swamps of New Jersey at a company called Hypnotix. To those not familiar with Hypnotix and their games, they were the creators of the unheralded and very well done "Outlaw" series. If you played a golf video game in 2005 and didn't play Outlaw Golf 2, then you likely missed out on one of the best renditions of a golf game ever released. Yes, it had goofy characters, many of them very un-PC caricatures, but the core gameplay was fantastic

    Before I ever became a member of these boards, I was a member at the forums for Hypnotix. The people there were an older group, very opinionated, but as colourful as they come, and always from a very twisted, unique and interesting point of view

    Today I went to log in at Hypnotix, and I found a form letter, basically advising that one of the best kept secrets of the videogame world had been assimilated by the Borg that is EA (See for yourself....)


    I think that there is nothing that makes me want to wretch more than the site of that logo anymore. They are everywhere and seemingly on a Borg-like mission to wipe creativity and innovation from the face of the videogaming map. If EA is now entrenched in the business of folding smaller developers into their company for the simple reason of brand extension, then I hate to tell you, we aren't going to see the kind of innovation that we have in the past

    What made the football and basketball games from last year so good? It was competition. More developers equals more competition which equals more acceptance of risk and innovation to secure market. If you want great games, you want lots of developers in the market vying for your dollar. If you want "Yeah, well that was okay -- nice roster update" games, throw every cent you have at EA

    Rather than looking at it from the licensed sports model, think of it in other genres. A lot of people like fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Soul Caliber, etc. What if you licensed "fighting games" as a genre so that only one of those titles could exist on every platform? Hey I like Mortal Kombat, but if that's the only option how fast do I say "Man, this is lame"?

    Variety is the spice of life my friends. Hypnotix made very well rendered and highly entertaining games. Now they are all being forced to churn out EA Maddenesque shyte in support of the Borg. Great for EA, bad for us

    How much do you really want another Madden game in a different shirt?

    You are already seeing the impact. Madden will be a rehash of the same game that we saw through the 2002-2005 editions. There has been little tangible innovation in that time. With competition, at least there was a reduction in pricing for the title. Without such, where do you see Madden 2006 starting as a price point? Hey look, right back to $50 USD and likely $70 CDN. I've argued for a long time that without competition these companies will not be motivated to raise the bar of their development. Why would they, there is no reason as we are now a captive audience without choice

    A few years back I owned a Playstation. Back then it was just a Playstation, not a PS1. I played Madden on it, just like I did my Sega Genesis when I had it. I loved Madden, although there was a brief flirtation with SCEA NFL Gameday that I enjoyed, especially when they changed the face of football gaming by going polygonal. At the time EA carried on with sprite-based until the very absolute, bitter end and lost two years to a game that outdid them

    A few years went by and the PS1 sort of lost its lustre for me. I had a modded system. I had oodles of games. Some were legit. Others, well I had a friend with various and sundry talents and, hey, they saved me money. Another friend offered me a sweet deal on a Dreamcast system about 4 or 5 weeks after it came out. The "package" included a couple of games NFL 2K and NBA 2K. There may have been heat coming off that system, but it may not have been the type that the on-board liquid cooling could have dealt with. Swallowing my civic pride, I said "sure" and began playing and being amazed by what I still say is one of the most under-rated systems ever. Just play Resident Evil Codename Veronica on that set-up and you'll understand

    But I digress. I liked NFL 2K, it wasn't Madden, but it was pretty solid and I thought that it'd do until Madden made it's way to the Dreamcast. What I did play like crazy was NBA 2k and its follow-up NBA 2k1. I've never put in as much time on a game as I did on NBA 2K1. That game was crazy. The football tided me over and was pretty good, but not mind-numbing by any means

    Roll forward a few years and a friend lent me his PS2 while I was out following a knee surgery. (Number 8 on the left side for those of you keeping score...). One of the games he lent me was Madden 2002. I went bonkers playing it, throwing down three seasons of franchise in four days. I loved it. It made me "itchy" to get back into video games. So a few months later, after careful consideration, I bought an Xbox just so that I could play Madden 2003, which for me is still the high point of the series. I loved that game. I also loved a little title that followed it called NCAA Football 2003. I even spent about 3 months entering every single player's name into the game just so it could be as "real" as possible. Man those were great days. I tried NFL 2K2 and 2k3. They didn't send me. I thought the series was dead to me

    Then came NFL 2K4.

    Originally posted by K Bomber at videogamereview.com
    I started playing video games when extensive surgeries to my knees, caused by the wear and tear of competitive sports, forced me to give up virtually any kind of sport that incorporated high impact. This meant that all the sports that I had grown up playing were out of bounds to me. One of my favorite sayings has always been "If you give me two new knees, I'll be out there tomorrow"

    Thanks to First Person Football (FPF) one of the game modes in ESPN Football that wish has been made close to a reality

    For all gamers, there are defining moments when you see a game that completely blows your mind and changes how you view gaming from that moment forward. For some that exeperience is found in games like Halo, or Knights of the New Republic. For me it has been found here, in this game, and how I perceive the possibilities for sports gaming has been changed.

    ESPN Football 2K4 is everything that a football video game should be. Beyond even FPF, ESPN Football captures the feeling of the game as it is found in both the stadia around the continent and in our living rooms. The integration of the familiar ESPN Gameday and Sunday Night Football branding throughout the playing experience is seamless and the emersion of the gamer into this perpetual world of Sundays is fantastic. At the end of each "week's" play, the gamer is treated to their own personal version of ESPN Gameday wherein the highlights of each week are narrated by Chris Berman and illustrated through replay packages just like on Sunday Nights.

    Given the advances in gaming technologies in the past fifteen years, it has been easy for gamers to become jaded by the innovations of video games. Fifteen years ago, we were playing Tecmo Bowl with virtual Bo smashing into defences, scattering them like popcorn. I would question how any gamer could not remember this and be completely amazed by playing even a quarter of FPF in this title.

    YOU ARE THERE.
    It is that simple and that amazing. It is like being in a real life episode of Sliders. I have experienced the closest thing to gaming Nirvana in this mode
    I wrote that on September 09, 2003. I still get goofy when I think of how stunned I was by the quality of that game. I can't think of another moment as clearly when I said, "This is what gaming can be". That game put me under a helmet for the first time in almost 20 years. For a guy who doesn't take a step without pain, you don't know what that represents. I still own Madden and NCAA Football 2004, but once I played ESPN NFL Football 2K4, I was sold

    IN 2004-05, ESPN NFL 2K5 only solidified its standing in my opinion and I understand that others have their thoughts on this and choose other options for their football jones, whether that is Madden or Gameday or whatever. At least they had the choice

    People who play Madden and people who play ESPN always battle about which game is better. "ESPN has players that move robotically", "Madden has players that look like playdough", on and on they drone. I don't honestly care who likes what. For me, the best game is what's playing in my system of choice. If I'm happy, I'm happy

    This year, I'm not happy. This year and I don't care if Madden shows up with sparks flying out its wazoo, if I don't like the core gameplay experience, my only option if I want NFL football, is to go backwards

    I don't fault EA for being a money-grubbing corporation. I now work for a money-grubbing corporation and I understand what they do and why. They are doing what they are supposed to do in order to satisfy the needs of their core and invested concerns; their shareholders. That's great for them, that they've cornered the market and made their bosses happy. It doesn't mean much to me sitting here in Guelph with no choice. It doesn't do much for the future, because there is no urgent need to grow. As gamers, we have been neutered by this development

    Any Madden fan can debate the relative merits of Madden vs ESPN NFL with me. We're going to value different things and I've generalized the difference in those core audiences in one way; Madden fans like something that is, generally, always the same in their virtual football gaming, ESPN NFL fans want something that is different. That is about as simple as I can put it. As a company VC pushed the limits over the past few years well beyond what EA was interested in doing with their Madden property and no matter what any Madden fan tells me, they can't dismiss the fact that last year ESPN NFL 2k5 made serious in-roads into Madden's market share. If you tell me that any other reality acted as the precursor to EA's steadfast pursuit of exclusivity, I will tell you that you are fooling yourself. There have always been competitors hanging around. VC became a threat, that's why they needed to be stomped out

    I understand the rationale from a corporate perspective, but the toll on us as a consumer group is singularly devastating.

    So now expand your thinking and project down the road. EA now controls licensed football as we know it. You now have titles for NFL, NCAA and Arena football. But we are yet again on the cusp of a new generation of hardware and the drive to deliver profitability for corporations is never-ending. How soon is it before someone says, "why don't we roll the Arena league game into our Madden franchise? I mean, after all, the technology will support it, even if we have to downgrade some of the graphics/gameplay or whatever. If we do that, we can market it as EA Pro Football World." How soon after that does someone say, "Better yet, why don't we roll the NCAA game into EA Pro Football World and call it EA Mondo Football Globo-Universe?"

    At that point it won't be about having one developer to play anymore. It will be about having one game in town and that will be it. That's where we are headed, my friends

    If that works for some people, God bless their hearts. Enjoy "EA Mondo Football Globo-Universe" and the follow up with the roster update and the cool "Create a Sweatband" feature. You will have earned it

    That idea doesn't work for me though, sitting here in the tiny vista of Guelph, Ontario

    Originally posted by K Bomber at videogamereview.com
    For all gamers, there are defining moments when you see a game that completely blows your mind and changes how you view gaming from that moment forward. For some that exeperience is found in games like Halo, or Knights of the New Republic. For me it has been found here, in this game, and how I perceive the possibilities for sports gaming has been changed.

    If there is a more emersive gaming experience I would want to see it. And it is this type of groundbreaking game that makes me excited for the future possibilities of how far virtual gaming can go
    We aren't going to get there via exclusivity

    Have fun............
    Last edited by Sully; 08-05-2005, 05:05 PM.
    Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

    What I think I think:
    • Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
    • Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
    • Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter
  • dbeth
    MVP
    • Aug 2002
    • 2304

    #2
    Re: Headless Man Found in a Topless Bar........

    Thanks for a VERY INTELLEGENT post regarding the exclusivity subject. As a 2k fan, I am saddened, but do realize I have the CHOICE not to buy Madden 06 this year. I haven't purchased NCAA 06 either, and, for the first time in memory, am NOT psyched about the upcoming football videogame season. Why? 2k is not there (right now) and I lost all reason to get excited.

    Being able to decide, informatively and intelligently, about what game you want to buy is right way to go. Being "force fed" a "this game or nothing" approach saddens me.

    Yeah, so I'm sticking with 2k5 and going to try to find updates via internet for my ps2.
    XBox Gamertag: djbeth77
    Switch ID: 3001-8923-7817


    Go Badgers!

    Comment

    • Jistic
      Hall Of Fame
      • Mar 2003
      • 16405

      #3
      Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

      I agree. I will miss MVP baseball.
      PSN: JISTIC_OS
      XBOX LIVE: JISTIC

      Comment

      • pares101
        Rookie
        • Jul 2004
        • 4

        #4
        Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

        I bought madden 06 for xbox... was dissappointed , NCAA still stutters, sheesh I revert to playing NFL 2k5 again And did you see how xbox 360 madden looks alot like NFL2k series?

        Comment

        • Kodiak33
          MVP
          • Aug 2002
          • 1093

          #5
          Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

          Originally posted by Jistic
          I agree. I will miss MVP baseball.
          I miss MVP and I miss NFL 2K. Both were the better games IMO, and I can't play them anymore! However, since MVP 05 is on the PC, I can still keep it somewhat updated. Sucks that the 2K series never was on the PC.

          Comment

          • Graphik
            Pr*s*n*r#70460649
            • Oct 2002
            • 10582

            #6
            Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

            Good post K-Bomber. I'm sure everyone knows my stance with EA so I'm not gonna even describe my hatred towards the company. Just know that I never plan on picking up a EA title again. I sopported that company for many, many years only to be kicked swift in the balls by the lack of innovation they charge me 50-200 annually for.

            You know something, although I'm not much of a racing fan, I always wanted a nice console version of NASCAR that brought something to the racing genre that would spark my interest in racing in general. Every year I think about getting EA's version and every year I read numerous love/hate impressions that completely justify me not wasting the time. Why is this? Why must I be shunned away from ever getting a Nascar game because EA refuses to create that must have game?

            I also understand what you mean about Outlaw Golf, I currently own both versions as well and although the game was quirky, it provided IMO a more realistic approach to the sport than Tiger Woods golf ever gave me. Shame to see another series bite the dust.

            NFL 2K as well as NBA 2K showed me the light. Funny thing is I would of never discovered this titles if it was'nt for this site. I would still be losing interest in sports games altogether like I was after a few years when PS2 came out. 2K showed me that there were developers out there that were looking out moreso for fans of the sport than lining their pockets with dough. Although the money is the reason they are a business in the first place, their target audience was a completely diffrent bunch.

            Enough about the EA vs 2K thing, exclusivness flat out sucks. I dont care what line of work its based on, nobody should be force fed a damn thing. Nobody should be limited in choices in anything. I'd probably have a semi-decent NASCAR game right now if it was'nt for these licenses. All I get now is a bunch of mediocrity and its killing me inside. First Person Shooter fans are doing fine, RPG fans are doing fine, Fighting game fans are doing fine but the one genre I love the most is heading towards oblivion.

            I reached my gaming peak during the 2003 year when I picked up almost every baseball, football, hocket and basketball game that year. Best year I ever had being a gamer. In the years to come, its all been a downhill struggle. I'm almost forced to like certain games because my options are so limited. I would of loved to see what Inside Drive could do as well as Fever since those games had the most potential. They just could'nt hang with the big boys and so we will never know what could of been.

            As far as EA goes, if its one thing I learned over the past 3 years, its that EA as a company has little to no interest in they're consumers happiness. We all know how they work and if you refuse to see the things that the ex-EA fans see then as far as I know, you're apart of the problem. I've mentioned a few times about my 3 friends who are all EA junkies. From being around them, I see why EA is so successfull. They have one of the most loyal fanbases around who are so completly impervious to the world that nothing else looks even remotely interesting to them besides a EA game. They are so used to the easy to navigate menus, the familiar botton schemes, the smooth controls and the simple minded gameplay mechanics that any other game just feels uncorfortable to them. I dont do documented research but I keep a mental tab on how they operate. Pop in a game from another company, they instantly compare that game to their EA game. If it operates nothing like it(which it should'nt, thats why its a "diffrent" company) then they find many reasons to dismiss it. Shame to, they always tell me "I wish EA had "X" feature or "X" games type of graphics" but they always return to what they know.


            Enough about them because they depress me sometimes. What it all boils down to is what I want and what I like. Frankly, I'm not happy. I'm not happy that EA has the football license since its been proven that they cant make a decent playing football game. I'm not happy because 2K erased MVP Baseball off the map because that game restored what little faith I had in EA as a company. I'm not happy I will probably never play a good console Nascar game and I'm not happy that the sport I was least interested in(Golf) will remain the sport I'm least interested in. All because of 1 companies greed. When will the nightmare end? Who knows, maybe EA will anounce in the upcoming months that the entire Tiburon team got the axe. Maybe by some grace of god 2K will return to make a football game. Maybe NCAA Baseball and World Series will fufill my baseball gaming needs. Maybe I can find a team of ppl like me and we attempt to make our own sports games. Maybe just maybe. For now, I cant help but feel like somebody kidnapped my child. My passion for sports gaming may be extinguished in the near future.
            http://neverfollow.biz (Independent Music Group)

            Comment

            • DickDalewood

              #7
              Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

              That was an EXCELLENT post Bomber. NFL 2K4 was my favorite football game of all time, and I have always been a fan of the Madden series. Last year, after playing nothing but 2K4, I had actually switched back to Madden, because, although prettier, I didn't think 2K5 was as good as the previous years effort. The funny thing is though, I really enjoy Madden this year, but in the back of my mind, I can't help but constantly wonder what 2K6 could have been on the 360. I like the new Madden, but to see it still missing certain aspects of gameplay that 2K already had just makes me scratch my head sometimes.

              At any rate, great writeup. Even if people don't agree, I think it something we can (hopefully) have a civilized debate over.

              Man I miss 2K4 though, thanks for rehashing those feelings, ya bastard...

              Comment

              • mjb2124
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2002
                • 13649

                #8
                Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

                Originally posted by Jistic
                I agree. I will miss MVP baseball.
                Same here. It wasn't perfect and there were certainly things I didn't like about it, but IMO it was still 50x better than the 2K game last year. I don't think the developers at 2K have ever seen a baseball game before. At least PS2 people have the option to play 989's MLB game. I heard that was pretty good.

                The entire exclusive license thing is terrible for gamers. Both EA and 2K are to blame IMO. Both companies screwed over gamers in the long run.

                I'll still buy games from both companies though. I'm not going to hurt myself and ruin my enjoyment over this.

                Comment

                • devilsjaw
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 3572

                  #9
                  Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

                  Originally posted by Jistic
                  I agree. I will miss MVP baseball.
                  Well, at least their will be a collge version, but I agree with you. I'll miss it more than NFL 2k.

                  Comment

                  • goh
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 20755

                    #10
                    Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

                    That thing with Hypnotix happend months ago and you just found out today? MTV Games still owns the Outlaw lisence so there COULD be another Outlaw game but Hypnotix wouldn't be making it (based on the tennis game maybe it wouldn't be so bad,can't make ALL your games good I guess).

                    I was willing to give EA another chance but they cut out at least 50% of the features in the next gen games,Madden doesn't even have Madden in it. Maybe they'll finally get it right next year,the demos weren't horrible. Though I still haven't been told why the hell Tom Brady has a flashlight in Madden or why no one else does. Looking at NBA 2K6 makes me wonder how good NFL 2K6 would've been on the 360.

                    Comment

                    • mjb2124
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 13649

                      #11
                      Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

                      Originally posted by goh
                      Madden doesn't even have Madden in it. Maybe they'll finally get it right next year,the demos weren't horrible. Though I still haven't been told why the hell Tom Brady has a flashlight in Madden or why no one else does.
                      Hmm, Madden probably isn't in it because I don't think he's signed next year. So instead of putting his commentary in the 360 version and then re-doing all the audio commentary for next year, they put the radio announcers in this year.

                      I thought all QB's had the flashlight once you moved the right stick? Or at least that's what I read. It's the "cone passing" feature that's also in the regular Xbox version.

                      Comment

                      • Admiral50
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 3311

                        #12
                        Re: Let's Try This Again, A Chat on Exclusivity.....

                        Just a comment... while I don't like the way EA operates, surely the Outlaw sports guys are happy to have been bought. If they kept their jobs, their pay got bigger while their workload got less.

                        They should consider themselves lucky (if they kept their jobs somewhere at EA). Outlaw Golf was the only 'decent' game they made and even that had terrible ball physics and was extremely easy. The others plain sucked.

                        Comment

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