Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

[DXZeke]

From an observation, it appears that that the 2nd wave of Sports games visually won't matchup too the 2nd wave of Non-Sports games on the 360, and for even that matter potentially the PS3.

...I know, the debate of Gameplay vs Graphics...

I'm open to both EA and VC, but come one. Bugs up the hole from VC and massivly stripped out features from EA. They said Madden and NBA Live were rebuilt from the ground up ---- YEAH ----- Both still have some of the same animations from current Gen. NBA live with the skating included.

Then EA and VC have shown pics of this coming years efforts. The same.


Take a look at games for the PS3 like Warhawk, metal gear, etc... some of it might be pre-rendered, but some of it hasn't been. Still, the believeable in game shots look like WOW...
Then look at games on the 360 like Chrome Hounds, Too Human, etc... Even those games look visually look like WOW.

Then you look at the 2Ks and EA sports. It's like... What happened?
Exclusives on football and baseball has hurt both companies. Then for both of them to walk into Next Gen like this... I just have a feeling that sports gaming in general will be bad for the next 2-3yrs on the PS3 and 360.

I had been optimistic, but it's hard to be right now.

Anyone have any other thoughts too add on?

[Admiral50]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

Top post. I agree with a lot of it, it's like you took the thoughts out of my mind.

Especially with NBA Live. I mean, what is it now, the 10th year that the annoying courtside announcer has been used? My goodness.

Same with the animations. Some even go back to 2004, possibly 2003.

Graphics wise, yeah the sports games won't jump like the 2nd crop of games. Especially for EA. They made such a jump from their cartoony, big headed midgets that they'll end up using the engine for the next 5 years and just slowly adding features back.

VC will just refine and polish by the looks of it and simply concentrate on features and bug fixes.

That's the annoying part about anticipating the yearly sports games.

In saying that, I am still hopefull that NBA Live will add more features back than most expect and even some new original stuff.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

"From an observation, it appears that that the 2nd wave of Sports games visually won't matchup too the 2nd wave of Non-Sports games on the 360, and for even that matter potentially the PS3."

are companies already creating part 2 series' of their nextgen releases from november? I dont think its a fair comparison unless thats the case. if its not the case, then you have other companies producing new games for the first time on the console. its actually their first wave. other than sports games, most companies dont have their 2nd wave for 2-3 years

[greenegt]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

The thing about sports games is that they run on such short dev cycles. I'm not an EA or VC apologist, but there's only so much you can do when you have to get a game out within a year. The big non-sports games are in development for multiple years and are given flexibility to push back release dates as needed. If EA and VC had 2+ years to develop a sports title, I think we'd see that big jump. Of course, they don't get that luxury. All we can do is hope that the sports games continue to improve year-to-year.

[luv_mist]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

The thing about sports games is that they run on such short dev cycles. I'm not an EA or VC apologist, but there's only so much you can do when you have to get a game out within a year. The big non-sports games are in development for multiple years and are given flexibility to push back release dates as needed. If EA and VC had 2+ years to develop a sports title, I think we'd see that big jump. Of course, they don't get that luxury. All we can do is hope that the sports games continue to improve year-to-year.

Basically what I was going to say. It's hard to really bring newness to the sports gamer because of the complexity of sports games and the learning curve for the average gamer. The balance also has to be there because the sports gaming is a yearly cash cow. With games like Oblivion, WOW, Final Fantasy, DOA, it's either hit or miss. You'll get the ones who like it regardless. With the NBA games, it's hard to please so many when the majority are more or less casual gamers compared to those who are strictly about gameplay. I personally think that VC did a pretty decent job with their 2K basketball titles (especially after the patch). I haven't really been inspired to get Live either. Not enough time. With these games, A.I. development is the key for me. I personally think VC has increased their A.I. development through their patch. I have yet to try the other games. It's still early though.

Also with sports games, you have to see it in motion during gameplay to really understand the changes. You have to already be into the installment to notice the differences. They kind of touch people different ways. Some people have a very keen eye for art while others, not so much. It's all in a matter of taste basically. I think that the basketball titles look fantastic IMHO. Madden doesn't, NHL titles have been on the decline since the inevitable lockout, baseball is a hit or miss lately. Because the system is very tricky to develop for, it might be a little less graphical advances. I mean, the games are more than beautiful enough. Not too much further they can go within the next 2 years until they understand the hardware much more. They're getting their though.

[burnwood]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

It's a shame that NFL football being the most popular sport in the US it is not getting it's due as far as a quality genre for gaming.

A friend and I were in Gamespot the other day and we laid out copies of Madden side by side from the years of 2002 thru 2005. It's a shame that if you didn't know anything about football games, at least visually you could not tell the difference.

[Graphik]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

I've been basically playing less and less of sports games as the years go by. Its such a huge world of non-sports games that I've found alot of fun in experimenting and finding quality titles. Sports games will always be there but I think they've all gotten a tad bit stale over the years. I can think of tons of ideas EA and 2K can use to spruce up their games but they are to busy trying to come up with the next gimmicky feature. All they care about is a spokesperson and licensing for athletic gear.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

The thing about sports games is that they run on such short dev cycles. I'm not an EA or VC apologist, but there's only so much you can do when you have to get a game out within a year. The big non-sports games are in development for multiple years and are given flexibility to push back release dates as needed. If EA and VC had 2+ years to develop a sports title, I think we'd see that big jump. Of course, they don't get that luxury. All we can do is hope that the sports games continue to improve year-to-year.

It's a business, It' comes down to money, these companys will leave out many things we want in the game on purpose, "Just so we can say, did you add this" and they say "Nope, sorry, maybe next year. They will leave things out so next year they can add some of the things we wanted last year, all so we keep buying. Thats really what it come down to.

[Pratt75]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

I agree with the original poster and for the first time I can think of I am actually contemplating whether not to buy the next installments of EA's and VC's titles and just continue playing what I do have already and buy other games or just gamble with it instead, lol.

[pk500]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

I agree with the original poster and for the first time I can think of I am actually contemplating whether not to buy the next installments of EA's and VC's titles and just continue playing what I do have already and buy other games or just gamble with it instead, lol.

I stuck with ESPN 2K5 this year with updated rosters and had a ball. I had Madden 2006, sold it and didn't miss it a bit. An updated NFL 2K5 was fantastic.

An updated MVP 2005 is better than any 2006 baseball game available for the Xbox, and I thought NASCAR 2005 was a hell of a lot better than NASCAR 06.

There is one exception to my recent trend: Rugby 06 is fantastic, a big upgrade over Rugby 2005. I'll go as far as saying Rugby 06 is the best game EA Sports has made since MVP 2005. It's AWESOME.

Take care,
PK

[Pratt75]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

I stuck with ESPN 2K5 this year with updated rosters and had a ball. I had Madden 2006, sold it and didn't miss it a bit. An updated NFL 2K5 was fantastic.

An updated MVP 2005 is better than any 2006 baseball game available for the Xbox, and I thought NASCAR 2005 was a hell of a lot better than NASCAR 06.

There is one exception to my recent trend: Rugby 06 is fantastic, a big upgrade over Rugby 2005. I'll go as far as saying Rugby 06 is the best game EA Sports has made since MVP 2005. It's AWESOME.

Take care,
PK

I'm agree with you on NFL 2K5. I just downloaded Phils rosters the other day and added a few more players. Now I just have to update the schedule using Phins editor and I'm ready with a new franchise.

[Jistic]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

It seems like this is becoming one of the worst times in history for sports gamers when it should be the best. It seems like the public gives most of these guys a free pass w/ expectations. Non Sports gaming is having no problem taking that next step.

I might just get back into text sims. At least the stats are good!

[mercalnd]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

It's a business, It' comes down to money, these companys will leave out many things we want in the game on purpose, "Just so we can say, did you add this" and they say "Nope, sorry, maybe next year. They will leave things out so next year they can add some of the things we wanted last year, all so we keep buying. Thats really what it come down to.

That sort of implies that they are sitting around doing nothing for part of the dev cycle, which I highly doubt.

Someone mentionned AI. I think this is the biggest thing holding the sports genre back from making the kind of strides that othergenres are. The AI in sports games is IMO more complex than any other genre because all players/characters have to react in a specific way to every situation and the gamer will notice if it's not right because he has a comparative base in the games he watches on TV. In a shooter for example, you do not necessarily have a pre-conceived notion of how each character should react at all times, or at least it's not as clear-cut. Thus, the changes they make to the AI have to be very carefuly implemented, leaving less time for visuals.

[23]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

Well, when you've seen a games AI like inside drive for basketball as an example, and which was done years ago on an old gen console, whats the excuse that you cannot match that, or even improve on it?

[SPTO]

Re: Next Gen: Sports Games vs Everything Else

here is something i'd like to see but I doubt it happens:

As you know both the X360 and PS3 will push the online aspect of the consoles so why don't the developers of sports titles just go on a 2 year cycle rather then one year. Only having a year to create the next season's game leaves very little room for originality and creativity.

Since most people are aiming for 90% or better online connectivity then wouldn't it make more sense for the companies to just put out roster updates until the next release. If they're worried about losing money then they could charge a nominal fee for the rosters.

I really think something like that would get the stale feeling out of sports gaming.