In-Development Indie MMORPGs

**KSUowls** · 03-08-2021, 05:21 PM

Re: In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Of that list Pantheon and Camelot Unchained are the only two that I have any hope for.

Pantheon because it's a true successor to old school MMO's and Camelot because it's the closest thing in the pipeline for a hardcore PvP game. Who knows when either game will actually be released though.

I would not call Crowfall a spiritual successor to Shadowbane. It's headed up by one or two of the guys who originally developed Shadowbane, but it's a stretch to say that game is anything like SB. I was on their website when it was first announced 6 years ago (before the forums were even up), and I was so excited to talk with the community in the early stages once they actually had something for the community to participate in. It didn't take long for them to start releasing information that was clearly not going to be the game that I wanted, and a few short months later they even locked their forums behind a paywall. For context that was the first half of 2015 and the game still isn't out.

Star Citizen could be really good, but they are just too ambitious. I remember when that game was first announced in 2012. You could even buy your ship not long after that. I can respect them taking their time to get it right, but we're approaching 10 years in development.

Ashes of Creation - I wanted to like. It's another one of those games that when it was first announced I was super excited. They talked about the open world, pvp and conquest systems. Then as more information was released it became apparent that it wasn't really a pvp game. I don't remember everything that i have against it, but I know one of them are the extreme penalties associated with becoming a Red player.

I miss the days when if you wanted to be an evil player then all you had to worry about was other players ganging up on you for revenge...now we have games which put debuffs and restrictions on your character for not playing nice. I also think that the genre in general has gone away from the first MM part of MMO. Instances, forcing equal teams, non defined classes that don't need support, etc. It's just too easy to play a MMO solo these days which is not multiplayer and it certainly isn't massive.

To contribute to the thread for other upcoming games though. There are 3 superhero games which all aim to be a spiritual successor to City of Heroes. I have my doubts about any of them ever making it to release, but they are worth noting.

Vanguard Saga of Heroes

City of Titans

Ship of Heroes

**francisbaud** · 03-08-2021, 07:45 PM

Re: In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Originally posted by KSUowls

Of that list Pantheon and Camelot Unchained are the only two that I have any hope for.

Pantheon because it's a true successor to old school MMO's and Camelot because it's the closest thing in the pipeline for a hardcore PvP game. Who knows when either game will actually be released though.

I would not call Crowfall a spiritual successor to Shadowbane. It's headed up by one or two of the guys who originally developed Shadowbane, but it's a stretch to say that game is anything like SB. I was on their website when it was first announced 6 years ago (before the forums were even up), and I was so excited to talk with the community in the early stages once they actually had something for the community to participate in. It didn't take long for them to start releasing information that was clearly not going to be the game that I wanted, and a few short months later they even locked their forums behind a paywall. For context that was the first half of 2015 and the game still isn't out.

Star Citizen could be really good, but they are just too ambitious. I remember when that game was first announced in 2012. You could even buy your ship not long after that. I can respect them taking their time to get it right, but we're approaching 10 years in development.

Ashes of Creation - I wanted to like. It's another one of those games that when it was first announced I was super excited. They talked about the open world, pvp and conquest systems. Then as more information was released it became apparent that it wasn't really a pvp game. I don't remember everything that i have against it, but I know one of them are the extreme penalties associated with becoming a Red player.

I miss the days when if you wanted to be an evil player then all you had to worry about was other players ganging up on you for revenge...now we have games which put debuffs and restrictions on your character for not playing nice. I also think that the genre in general has gone away from the first MM part of MMO. Instances, forcing equal teams, non defined classes that don't need support, etc. It's just too easy to play a MMO solo these days which is not multiplayer and it certainly isn't massive.

To contribute to the thread for other upcoming games though. There are 3 superhero games which all aim to be a spiritual successor to City of Heroes. I have my doubts about any of them ever making it to release, but they are worth noting.

Vanguard Saga of Heroes

City of Titans

Ship of Heroes

Both Pantheon and Camelot Unchained should deliver a great game for their niche, in condition that they receive enough funding from investors, especially since they may still be in development for a couple of years.

As for Crowfall being the spiritual successor of Shadowbane, there are many similarities (planned free city building in the Dregs, sieges, tree of life, multiple similar races (Minotaur, Centaur, Aracoix (not playable in CF), etc.), discipline runes, territory conquest, the focus on GvG and alliances, etc.) plus this quote by J Todd, the creative director of both games : "“The marching orders I had for the design team were – I literally told them – go back and look at Shadowbane. I want that level of customization and configuration of our races and our classes and our disciplines,” he says. “It’s one of the things I’m proudest of; it was unique in that it was a completely open-ended character build system. You could build a centaur gladiator warlord hunter bounty hunter scout – this ridiculous list that made up your class. And if you were like, I’m all those different things, except instead of scout I’m a werewolf, that was a totally different character build. So we’re gonna go back to that now, and I think you guys are gonna see it. It’s a little bit risky because it means the game is gonna get even more deep.”" So I think it's justified to call CF a spiritual successor to SB, even if there are many differences between both games.

Concerning Star Citizen, I think it's an interesting project as it's the most funded MMO project of all time. They could push the boundaries of the MMO genre by releasing a grandiose game.

I didn't know about the reputation system in AoC for PKing. I'm not sure I like that. We'll have to wait and see how they design the PvP.

You probably meant Valiance rather than Vanguard. I know about those 3 projects but they're smaller games and less popular so they didn't make it into the list. Thanks!

**KSUowls** · 03-08-2021, 08:13 PM

Re: In-Development Indie MMORPGs

J Todd says a lot of things, but they are all just marketing ploys. Technically yes there is open pvp, castle sieges, disciplines, etc...I believe that Shadowbane did them best, but it was not the only game to have these features. So, having those alone doesn't make it a spiritual successor to SB. Add in all of the other glaring variances that Crowfall has introduced, and it doesn't deserve to have Shadowbane mentioned anywhere near it.

SB is far and away my favorite MMO ever, maybe my favorite game ever. When Play2crush.com (play to crush was a caption that appeared where the Play button would be on most launchers in Shadowbane) was launched and eventually became crowfall.com in early 2015 myself and all my old friends from SB were so excited. Sadly it didn't take long to realize that this was not play2crush as it was meant to be. So, I'm a tad bitter.

And you're right. I messed up the name for Valiance Online. I think Vanguard Saga of Heroes is something else?

**francisbaud** · 03-08-2021, 09:30 PM

Re: In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Here's another post by J Todd (I truncated it), even though I'm now aware that you're not giving much importance to them, that explains how some people may believe Crowfall is a spiritual successor to Shadowbane:

"I am ALL IN on Crowfall. I've invested a big chunk of my savings. I left my cushy job. I gave up my safe little nest, and took a bold (arguably foolhardy) leap into the unknown.

Why?

Because I HAVE to make this game.

March, 2004: Shadowbane basically ruined me. [...]

We shipped it, yes. and it sold well. But it was riddled with issues (technical, design, and operational) that caused it to bleed players like a sieve. [...]

What haunts me is this: it ALMOST worked. [...]

The idea behind Crowfall -- the original idea that pre-dates Shadowbane, that was born in a pizza joint as a scribble on a paper napkin -- that vision is my white whale. We had it once, right there, in our grasps. It was so close! [...]

I learned what I need to learn about building MMOs. Launching MMOs. Running a live service. and with Gordon here, and the team that we have recruited, we can do this. We can make this game great. [...]

It is time to right a great wrong."

https://community.crowfall.com/topic/1695-ask-the-team/?do=findComment&comment=44838

**KSUowls** · 03-09-2021, 10:40 AM

Re: In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Admittedly I am very harsh on Crowfall. Not that I expected Shadowbane 2.0, but I also didn't expect such a massive divide for a game that has so liberally referenced Shadowbane as an inspiration in interviews and announcements. I just think that if you removed J Todd Howard from the credits then people would not be so quick to make the connection.

In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Recommended Videos

In-Development Indie MMORPGs

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment