Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

[peter42O]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

For those who are excited about this (or aren't excited) what is your background with the series? New to FF, played the action-rpg hybrid that was FF7 remake, or you are a Final Fantasy blue blood who dreams in Moogle? Just a purely curious as I've seen a lot of mixed reactions from different segments.

This isn't a knock on anyone who buys it or is excited about it. I've accepted that FF13 was and will the final time that this series feels like a JRPG, and while that sucks for me I know a lot of people will enjoy a DMC like experience. I just wonder is it FF fans who are buying this or people who are new to the genre or franchise (as the game director is on record as tailoring the experience to).

I have the game pre-ordered at GameStop and am looking forward to playing it. With that said, there's no guarantee that I complete the game. Depends on if I like and enjoy the combat system which I should but we'll see.

As for history with the series, it was non-existent until Final Fantasy VII Remake which was the first ever game in the series that I completed and the first ever JRPG that I ever completed. Played a lot back in the SNES/PS era's but never completed any. Before Remake, I only played the original FF VII but after four random battles running up the train stairs, game went right off. And no, im not joking. I have always hated random battles. I prefer enemies on screen and if you make contact with them, you go into battle. It's one of the many reasons why Chrono Trigger is my all time favorite JRPG even though I never completed it.

I'm more hyped for FF VII Rebirth than I am FF XVI but the setting, time period and the combat is very appealing. Didn't play the demo but I did watch around 30 minutes of it mainly because my friend told me that the attack buttons were R1/R2 like souls games and I hate that crap but thankfully, it's not. It's square/triangle which is good because that's what I prefer.

The only negative from watching those 30 minutes was that there seems to be a crap ton of cinematics. Out of the 30 minutes, I would say 5 minutes was gameplay/combat and another 2 minutes or so with a tutorial combat segment where you just learn the basics. If I end up enjoying the story and characters, this negative probably won't matter too much unless the cinematic to gameplay ratio is just absurd.

On a side note, I know a lot of old school FF fans prefer the turn based combat system and while I did play and complete a few last generation, im just done with them as I had my fill.

The perfect combat system in a JRPG is FFVII Remake because it's real time but also puts the spells and whatnot on a turn based part of the combat which is good because you're still fighting and attacking.

[NY4Life]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

For those who are excited about this (or aren't excited) what is your background with the series? New to FF, played the action-rpg hybrid that was FF7 remake, or you are a Final Fantasy blue blood who dreams in Moogle? Just a purely curious as I've seen a lot of mixed reactions from different segments.

This isn't a knock on anyone who buys it or is excited about it. I've accepted that FF13 was and will the final time that this series feels like a JRPG, and while that sucks for me I know a lot of people will enjoy a DMC like experience. I just wonder is it FF fans who are buying this or people who are new to the genre or franchise (as the game director is on record as tailoring the experience to).

Final Fantasy IV (2 In the US when it came out for SNES) was the first RPG I played for SNES when I was 10. I borrowed from a friend and I was hooked on FF and RPG's as a whole. So, I am loyal to the series and have enjoyed/beaten most of the entries in the series. Looking forward to this and VII Rebirth.

[JazzMan]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

For those who are excited about this (or aren't excited) what is your background with the series? New to FF, played the action-rpg hybrid that was FF7 remake, or you are a Final Fantasy blue blood who dreams in Moogle? Just a purely curious as I've seen a lot of mixed reactions from different segments.

This isn't a knock on anyone who buys it or is excited about it. I've accepted that FF13 was and will the final time that this series feels like a JRPG, and while that sucks for me I know a lot of people will enjoy a DMC like experience. I just wonder is it FF fans who are buying this or people who are new to the genre or franchise (as the game director is on record as tailoring the experience to).

I got my start when I was a kid, my older brother borrowed FF7 and 8 from one of his friends, got my start on those but didn't finish them at that time. Got X on the PS2 a couple years later and I was hooked, went back and got 7 and 8 and finished those, then played through what I could of the rest of the series.

[mpklub]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

Played since FFI on the NES. Will wait on this until they release the I inevitable game of the year edition. But have to say it looks really good.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[49UNCFan]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

Didn't care too much for FF but this demo is crazy good.

[JazzMan]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

Legitimately upset I had to put this down so I can get some work done today

This game is insane man. The combat is clean and so much fun once you start to open things up with different Eikonic abilities and upgrades. The world building is one in a million, I'm incredibly immersed

[mpklub]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

Demo was fire. May have to pick this up sooner than later. Really amazing demo.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

I don’t think I’ve ever played a FF game before. It’s possible I did as a kid and don’t remember. I download the demo and played it to the end. Wow! I found it awesome! Going to try to hold out for a sale though because I have other games I’m playing at the moment.

[JazzMan]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

I've had the OST stuck in my head for a week now lol, the music is so good in this game. Definitely going to take home a lot of awards

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

Well waiting for a sale didn’t work out lol. I was having too much fun to not continue after I finished the demo so I bought it.

[KSUowls]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

I own 13 different Final Fantasy games, and 23 games when you include the numerous repeat purchases that I have for remasters or downloads on other platforms. So, despite reservations, I felt that I owed it to myself to at least give it a shot when I saw Gamestop with a used copy that I could always return if needed. This also led to me having quite a lot to say about my experience. I have seen some similar perspectives as mine elsewhere, but I know that this will be a minority opinion at OS.

As a Final Fantasy game, I would rate this game at 1/5. While it does have some features that you expect from a Final Fantasy game, it's such a major deviation that I can't group it with the rest of the series or even what I expect from RPGs in general. Combat is certainly a major sticking point, but it is not as simple as just saying that this is not a turn based game and therefore it isn't Final Fantasy. It much more than that.

While the game may fail as a Final Fantasy game, the reason that I have invested some time into it is that it isn't a bad game itself. I am writing this after completing about 60% of the MSQ, and as I started to really think about what I was going to say then I realized somewhat ironically that many of my problems with this game likely stem from the fact that it tries to be a Final Fantasy game. In isolation, it is admittedly a pretty good game deserving a 3/5, but it's best selling point is that it does not do anything badly.

My breakdown:

The Music - Nobuo Uematsu has retired from the franchise, but his legacy lives on in the series, at least to a degree. It's not my favorite Final Fantasy OST, but it is still really good. I really enjoyed the menu music being in a minor key and how it really fit the narrative (it reminded me a lot of the menu from Two Worlds). I would say that the general theme of the music played well with the somber and maybe anxious tone of the story.

Graphics - It's Square Enix. They always provide fantastic visuals. I will say that I expected more, but I also have insanely high expectations when it comes to art from Square Enix. Similar to the music, the bar is so high that it's hard to be fair. I remember thinking something like this when some of the videos hit the internet a few months before release. The highs were exceptionally high. The lows were in no way bad, but they were noticeably different. In my time with the game, that inconsistency is just something that I have noticed. It's not necessarily a bad thing because everything still looks great, and again those high points are truly spectacular.

Performance - A category that we have to take into consideration in modern gaming. No issues to report. There are occasional frame drops, but nothing game breaking. The game feels very polished, which is maybe its best feature.

The story - I applaud the move to a more mature tone, and I love long cutscenes (as a general rule). I'm the person who considers Xenosaga to be the epitome of RPG story telling with its many hour long cutscenes.

But...they really missed the mark in the early portions of the game. The first couple of hours with the game are very jarring with how it takes you through an extended scene, then giving you control only to take it away again after a brief reprieve. This is a process that gets repeated a few times too many in the early game. Fortunately, the pacing becomes much more organic later on, and you can really just enjoy the scenes as they play out (minus some QTE annoyances that occasionally pop up).

Pacing aside, the story is interesting. The main character is as likeable as any others in the series. Side characters (looking at you Cid and the bestest boy Torgal) are also a selling point. It's a story that is meant to connect you to the main character and his plight, and I think that it does a good job with that. Honestly it was the various story clips that I saw online that got me to even try looking for a used copy.

Quick Time Events - This game feels like it is straight out of the early 2000's when QTE's were all the rage. I can't think of a game that I have played in the last decade that had half as many QTE's as FF16, and it is in no way a positive that FF16 goes against that trend. So many scenes and fights are unnecessarily extended due to the incessant use of QTEs. Not only that, but it diminished some of the incredible visual experiences when you had to pick the controller back up to participate in some stupidly easy QTE that matches the action on the screen. These pauses and on screen prompts were not a welcome addition in the middle of some epic battle playing out on screen.

Side Quests - I guess it's a good thing that this is a RPG-lite, lite on all RPG staples including side quests, because side quests in this game are not fun. I never really felt rewarded for doing any of them either (which leads into a point further down). Side quests in many games are not necessarily the highlight of the game, but they felt particularly bad in this one. At least some of the characters that you meet here do offer some semblance of lore, but it's also a black mark on the game when there is so much incomplete voice acting. Some characters who you talk to will speak the first word of 2 audibly, but then it will want you to read the read via text. I really don't mind having to read through dialogue, but it is the inconsistency that is annoying.

The above pertains to traditional "RPG" side quests. The game does feature monster hunts (which you don't unlock until you're about half way through the main game) which are much more interesting, but also fall short on rewards (at least to this point, about 60% through the game).

Combat - Prior to release I've criticized the game for being a DMC clone, and I stand by that criticism. However, as I mention earlier it is not the action combat itself that is a detriment to the game or even the series. Final Fantasy can thrive with an action combat system. Just not THIS system.

I enjoy DMC, Ninja Gaiden and other hack & slash games where all you do is pummel your enemy by hitting one or 2 buttons repeatedly. There is no doubt that FFXVI's is very visually stunning, but all too often it just is not fun.

What differentiates it from those other games that I mentioned is that I only have to button mash through a Ninja Gaiden game for 10-15 hours. Final Fantasy or any RPG is a vastly different experience. This game suffers from an inverse of what basically every other FF has. Other Final Fantasy games start off with combat being a relatively weak part of the game. You don't have access to much in the way of abilities and you kind of just spam a basic attack from the menu, but as the game progresses then so does your arsenal to fight with. FFXVI is the complete opposite. The visually appealing and fast paced action combat is there at the onset, but you basically unlock the apex of its potential within the first minutes of gameplay. Yes, you unlock new skills as you go, and the combat opens up a bit when you unlock your 2nd set of powers which in turn creates new combos (an unlock that occurs after a not insignificant time investment into the story). They don't really mean anything though, and you're still just spamming the same buttons repeatedly without thinking about anything other than dodge & attack (or stagger if you really want to get spicy...)

I would reference the Tales series which has had action combat in a RPG for at least 2 decades. Despite being what often feels like a button masher itself, there remains a level of strategy and decision making which is far more engaging at hour 30 than timing the perfect dodge is for the 800th time. Elemental attacks, debuffs, party buffs, etc...All of these are decisions that you are making within combat in that series, not just smashing R1 to evade the attack and repeatedly smashing square as a followup (even though there is a lot of that too).

Although they are intense from beginning to end, there just is not anything remotely appealing about a fight where you press R1, Square (x3), triangle, Square (x3), R1, and repeat for 10 minutes while the enemy's HP bar slowly goes down. Maybe if the combat was more challenging then it would add to the excitement (though likely exhausting in a lengthy playthrough). Other FF games have fights which feel like a grind too, but at least you are managing multiple characters and strategies. I would likely have enjoyed it more if not for that the fact that every enemy (including basic enemies that are the equivalent of random encounters) took multiple combos to bring down every single time. This is one of the points where the design decisions were counterproductive in trying to marry this new combat formula with grindy final fantasy fights.

For instance, it's really cool and satisfying in a game like Ghosts of Tsushima to dance through these awesome combat sequences, but also there is a reason why the realism mode in Ghosts of Tsushima is so far and away the superior experience. The first 5 or so hours of Ghosts of Tsushima were truly epic (before the realism mode was released at launch and these "bullet sponge" enemies were all we had). I was bored of that combat by hour 5 though and the introduction of a mode where I didn't have to smash buttons repeatedly for dozens of seconds or even minutes at a time was such an immense relief. This is the problem that FFXVI runs into imo. The very straight forward combat is fine for early hours of the game, and it would even work for a more compact game in the 10-15 hour range. It's a system with both diminishing and negative returns the more you experience it.

In sum, the biggest problem with the combat has nothing to do with it being action vs turn-based. It's that it lacks any kind of strategic element to it and how it feels like a chore beat up even basic enemies. It did not take long until I was praying that the game would introduce some new mechanic which might make me need to consider some kind of elemental weakness or other status effects or just anything other than dodge, attack until it looks like the enemy will attack, repeat. FF16's combat may be pretty, but it lacks substance.

Progression - What progression?

Similar to the combat, the complete lack of customization and totally streamlined stats are fine in a short hack & slash experience like DMC, Ninja Gaiden or even God of War. In a Final Fantasy game though....in any game where you are stuck doing these actions for hours and hours, just...no.

Itemization is a joke.

World exploration is non existent.

I think that the only reason that this game even has your character gain experience points and levels is because the backlash would have been insane on top of every other formula change that they introduced. Practically speaking though, those levels don't matter. You gain levels & power at exactly the pace in which the story dictates, no faster no less. You gain attack power ups and defense at exactly the pace that the game design decides for you. There are a modicum of opportunities to grind out some extra exp, which will help (some), but they are rare. In essence, it's similar to how FFXIII basically had a max amount of exp and abilities that you could get in any story chapter but without the inherent story constraint of how L'Cie get stronger. Fortunately (I guess) is that nothing about the combat is difficult. The majority of all enemy attacks are highly telegraphed and easy to dodge. Combat is just a test in patience and thumb stamina.


Bottom Line
I love long and epic games. The dumbed down nature of so many elements in this would play better in a shorter experience and would generate a higher score imo though.

The mature story combined with the simplified combat, itemization and general progression would play really well in a 15-20 hour game not named Final Fantasy. It's depressing as a long time fan of the series to see it in this state, and judging it through a non-FF lens I can't help but notice that it suffers itself by trying to be something that it is not.

Despite the criticisms, there is an enjoyable story to follow with it's interesting characters, great graphical design, and fun music.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

I felt the same way when I played 15. Doesn't feel like final fantasy. I prefer to control all my characters in battle in a game like this. I just have to accept old school final fantasy is gone. FF9 will forever be my favorite.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[JazzMan]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

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New update just dropped this morning. Game looks even better with motion blur off

[peter42O]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

[ATTACH]206577[/ATTACH]

New update just dropped this morning. Game looks even better with motion blur off

Nice. Haven't played since Sunday due to work but will get back to the game this Sunday and being able to turn off Motion Blur is great.

[Eddyjohns]

Re: Final Fantasy XVI (2023)

waiting for this game since watching it's first intro scene!