Does Soccer do it Better?

[Peji911]

Im putting it in this forum cuz its open to all and it falls into all sports, so I cant put it in a specific forum.

So here is the case.

North American Sports:
-drafting of universtiy athletes after each sports individual season (baseball however holds it in the middle of the year)
-if a team is playing poorly, they will trade away their better players for draft picks so they can regroup for the next year (however, there are perennial losers in each sport so this doesnt work).
-the GM of a team makes the trades and signings, and although he might consult the coach, its usually him that has final say.

Soccer outside of North America:
-every team has a shot at getting an athlete and thus no need for a draft--this means that perennial winners can actually sign good up and coming athletes--and yes, people might think that this means only the top clubs in each nation will have a shot at signing the top amateurs but that is not true because big teams do not want young players because they will not start and thus not progress athletically (thus the lower teams always have a say).
-there is no stinking it up at the end of the season--teams play EVERY game to win because no one wants to drop a division
-the manager is the one who sees first hand how players play, practice, etc, and subsequently he is in charge of deciding what kind of player or whom to get.
-although it doesnt seem like it with chelsea, bayern munchen, ac milan, juventus, etc around, almost every team has a shot at doing well--sure, in england there are the big 4, but tottenham, newcastle, etc still have a shot, and in spain and italy it has been proven that not just the big clubs can win--eventually, I believe the big clubs win cuz of the brutal reffing, hands down--its no secret Juventus, Bayern Munchen, Arsenal, Man U, Porto, etc are helped immensely and info has even been linked into the public of how this does occur in various leagues.


What Im trying to say is that by removing the draft system, implementing promotion/relegation, etc, North American sports would be that much better.

What do you guys think?

[Vince]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

Soccer system 100 times out of 100...I expect most poster in this thread will say the other because they may be more biased toward NA sports.

[JohnnytheSkin]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I prefer the soccer system, especially in regard to younger players. Sure the big squads will end up with the stars (Manchester United, Bayern, etc.) like the Yankees, but as the players develop they are bringing interest and notoriety to less well known teams.

The "stinking it up" as you put is the major flaw in our pro sports...just look at the Texans/Niners game last year. While neither team really threw the game, it came down to a mere field goal, not to mention that the Texans kicker I think missed two or three over the course of the game! Why? Because if the Niners lost they were going to drop a few picks in the draft. I think we want to believe it doesn't happen, due to bias or what have you, but the evidence proves points to the contrary.

[Nivek]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

Soccer system 100 times out of 100...I expect most poster in this thread will say the other because they may be more biased toward NA sports.

Co-sign...waaaaaaay better then NA. Anyone that thinks differently probably doesn't know any better.

[Acid]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

Soccer system 100 times out of 100...I expect most poster in this thread will say the other because they may be more biased toward NA sports.

Agreed.

[SPTO]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

Having read the comparison I think the soccer system is miles better but one point i'd like to make on GMs in NA sports. There have been cases where the coach has a strong say in personel decisions or actually have the title of coach and GM.

The best examples of this seem to come from the NFL although there have been just as many or more instances where the coaches can't handle the full responsibility.

So it's not like coaches don't have much say in what goes on personel wise but sometimes it's a situation where it's better not to have the official GM job.

[pk500]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

Soccer does it better in almost all cases. But not every one.

Developing talent as soccer does instead of drafting it is better. But honestly, developing a player through the youth system isn't much different than a baseball player moving through the low minors to the high minors to the bigs or a hockey player moving from juniors to the AHL to the NHL. There's not that much difference.

North American teams often trade players as salary dumps more than for reasons of poor play. The same thing happens in soccer. If a team is losing money, it will sell its assets when they're value as at peak. So again, there's not much difference between Tottenham selling Michael Carrick or Leeds selling off nearly its entire Champions League team of 2000 by 2003 and the Florida Marlins dumping most of their team after they won the World Series.

The team's manager does not always have the final say in transfers, as you infer here. The club chairman still has to allow the transfer out or to splash the cash for the transfer in. Some clubs also have directors of football that also have significant says in transfers of both directions. Autocrats like Sir Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho are the exception, not the rule, in English football, at least.

The biggest edge of soccer, with ease, is relegation and promotion. It makes the season that much more intriguing, especially when you have a battle at the top and bottom, for the title and survival. It also keeps the league interesting when there's a runaway winner, like Chelsea the last two years in the EPL. The relegation battles went to the last day in both of those years, if I'm not mistaken.

Relegation and promotion also gives hope to smaller teams to make the "big time." Can you imagine if cities with AAA baseball -- like Syracuse, where I live -- had a chance to make it to the majors? That would increase interest in baseball here big-time.

The one area were I think most North American sports are superior is the salary cap. None of the major soccer leagues around the world have it, and you can see the results: The same three or four clubs are among the league's best every year unless there are extenuating factors, such as a corrupt Russian billionaire buying the club.

Seriously, though, before Chelsea's recent run, either Man U or Arsenal had won EVERY title since the Premiership was formed in 1992 except for one -- Blackburn in 1995. That's not healthy. At least soccer has domestic and continental club competitions within the season to keep the interest when hegemony sullies the domestic league competitions.

With no salary cap, the rich get richer and the smaller teams are f*cked, just like in baseball. I much prefer the parity bred by the cap. Look what happened in the first year of the cap in the NHL -- the No. 8 seed, Edmonton, came within one game of winning the Cup. Sure, I'm a longtime Oilers' fan, but that would excite me even if I wasn't an Oil freak.

With few exceptions, Barca and Real Madrid will rule Spain. Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool will rule England. Celtic and Rangers will rule Scotland. Boca and River will rule Argentina. Bayern always will be among the top teams in Germany. Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord will be tops in Holland. Inter, Juventus and AC will be among the top teams in Italy if they don't get caught cheating.

A salary cap would breed a lot more parity in the game and prevent teams from teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. About the only way you can improve now in European football is to spend. And if you don't have it, you can't spend it.

Very interesting thread, man!

Take care,
PK

[dave360]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

As I've said in a few posts before, relegation and promotion is what made me fall in love with Soccer. I'd love to see relegation and promotion put in to some American sports and PK's example is perfect. If teams faced relegation, you'd no longer see bottom feeders stay that way IMO. The system would work perfectly in baseball, not so well in football (since most all of the pro leagues have differing sets of rules), it would work great in hockey, but out of all of them, I think it would be best suited for NASCAR. Think about it, the bottom feeders of NASCAR facing relegation to the Busch Series if they don't run well.

[Vince]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I would work great with Football if the CFL and NFL agreed upon it.

[pk500]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I think it would be best suited for NASCAR. Think about it, the bottom feeders of NASCAR facing relegation to the Busch Series if they don't run well.

Now THAT's a great idea -- with one catch: Most of the top runners in Busch already are Cup veterans. For example, nine of the top 10 drivers in the current Busch standings also have full-time Cup rides. It's one of the reasons why the Busch series is horsesh*t.

But if Cup regulars weren't allowed to run Busch, then your system would be GREAT!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I would work great with Football if the CFL and NFL agreed upon it.

How? The leagues use different rules, including different field sizes. Think NFL owners are going to remove seats from stadiums to accomodate the larger field?

Think again.

Take care,
PK

[SPTO]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

How? The leagues use different rules, including different field sizes. Think NFL owners are going to remove seats from stadiums to accomodate the larger field?

Think again.

Take care,
PK

I think he's making the (safe) assumption that the NFL would force the CFL to adopt US rules

[pk500]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I think he's making the (safe) assumption that the NFL would force the CFL to adopt US rules

Ah. That would suck for the CFL. I'm a major NFL fan -- aren't all Americans? -- but I like the CFL style of game for a change of pace, too.

Take care,
PK

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

I don't follow soccer so I'm not sure how the relegation works.

I don't see it working with NA sports.

If a team gets relegated, would they still get paid big league salaries? Let's say the Canucks stink it up and then get moved to the AHL league, what happens to players salaries?

If the team moved to the AHL, the team would take a huge hit in attendance. Why would any owner want to see their team move to a lesser league if they stink?

Also how would they be able to attract NHL FA's if they play in the AHL? I can tell you season ticket sales would take a nose dive if a team moved to a lesser league.

Regardless of which NA sports league, no players union would agree to it.

As for eliminating the draft and making all potential new players FA's, they already have that in MLB with international players. And of course this favours the Yankees. They have signed El Duque, Contreas, Tabata, Matsui, etc....

In soccer, why would any elite prospect sign with a bottom feeding team when they can sign with the top big spending teams?

[NoSkillz50]

Re: Does Soccer do it Better?

The thing you don't realize is that most top football and basketball players are ready to make an impact and start on 90% of teams so they wouldn't have to resort to going to bad teams and all the good players would go to the good teams. In soccer players need a lot more development before theyre ready. So the system works for soccer but wouldn't work for American sports.

All of the top teams in the NFL this year wouldn't have hesitated in going after players like Leinart, Bush, Mario, VY, Vernon Davis, Cutler etc.

Even when you look at the superbowl champion Steelers, they would have definately pursued at least Bush to feel the need at WR and possibly RB. Im sure they would also take a look at Marion or maybe even Cromartie. The Seahawks would definately look at Bush too and also a couple of the top defensive player and maybe even one of the top QBs as a backup. Theres no way these top teams would even consider passing on the top athletes so theres no way a team like the 49ers would get anyone. The difference in American sports is that you can never have to many great athletes and depth is really important since coaches will find ways to utilize all their talent.