The Ladder Theory revisited

**Graphik** · 03-19-2007, 04:09 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by JJLinn

That's really tough, considering she's my best friend, basically the scenario they talk about. I don't think she'd like that too much. The worst part is that I "fell into the abyss" with her before.

Notice what you just said. I dont think "she'd" like that too much. Ask yourself what you want out of that relationship and if its much more deeper than friendship, I say get out of it cause all you're doing is punishing yourself. Best thing you can do is be honest with her and tell her what you want. If she aint feeling it, her whole attitude will change.

**P2K** · 03-19-2007, 05:20 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

I was definitely a "cuddle bitch" with this one chick. Talk on the phone, talk about stupid stuff. Like I wanna hear about how some fool at the mall stalked you because he saw your big, Puerto Rican azz in a skirt. But anyway, lol, she gave me the "you're like a brother to me" treatment. And that pissed me off to no end.

I mean this chick would call me in the middle of the day, afternoon, late afternoon, late as hell at night. She would call me while in some little azz bikini in the hot tub. Aw man, that mad me maddddddddd. Because this girl is thick and fit. She's a hip hop dancer. You know those girls got some bad azz bodies.

Just to note: I did end up with this girl for a little bit. There wasn't much to it, though and it ended quickly. I think she got with me because there was nobody else around to be nice to her at a difficult time in her life. Poor me.

Anyways, I put in all this work. And some noodle headed negro came along and basically dismantled all my work. He was obviously obsessed with her.
She told me all the stories. But this dude would get into pissy fights with her, he would get mad at her over the dumbest things. He basically mad her mad and at the same time, intrigued the hell out of her. Soon enough, it was all about this other guy when she called me. His name would come up all the time.

So when it got to the point where I got pissed off, I did what I was supposed to do. Whenever she would call, I would say "Sorry, but I'm kinda busy...". And she would say "oh okay" and we'd hang up. I did this for about 3 weeks straight. She would call less and less. Then one time, she called. I told her the usual "Sorry, but I'm kinda busy...". She text messaged me 3 minutes later saying "You know, if you don't want to talk to me, just say so."

There's much more to this story, but I've basically come to the conclusion that this girl was actually conflicted over wanting to be with me or this other dude. I would just refuse to be played like an idiot. And not want to be her friend anymore. We've have periods of 4-5 months of never talking. It was very weird because we were very much great friends for years. And I'm sorry, but it is very hard to stop talking to a hot azz chick...oh and that accent...wooooooooo...lol anyway, I did what I had to do. And sure enough, I would get a phone call from this girl out of nowhere. And I'd swear to myself not to start it all over again. But I talk to her still. This always happens. I stop trying to be her friend, she ends up calling me months later. We just started talking again, but I refuse to get back into what we had before. It's a strain, man.

**GBrushTWood** · 03-20-2007, 12:00 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Graphik: I'm glad you are the one porking your girlfriend while the other herb is sitting awake at night putting your girl on a pedestal and day dreaming about her. You tool on that kid. However, it should be noted that some dudes can become real obsessed with ladies and lose their minds over the girl. You don't want this Stu to one day go postal on everybody including you.

So all I'm saying is to treat this dude carefully. I'm not exactly sure which route to go in this instance, because I've never been in this identical situation, but it would be best for you if this dude took his eyes off your lady. Maybe send a vid of you slamming the girl

. Better yet, find him women to keep his mind off your lady. You don't want to keep this guy's dreams alive though..

As for the Ladder Theory: I find that it is descriptive in explaining a generally unexplored aspect of male and female relationships, but it doesn't really help advise what steps you as a male need to take in order to prevent ending up as one of these cuddle bitches, "big brother", "stuck in the friend zone" type people. In other words, Ladder Theory is good at saying "hey, here is why you are a cuddle bitch". But after one reads that, they ultimately end up in the "chicks are all just looking to sleep with jerks" conundrum. Ladder Theory doesn't tell you what steps you should take so you don't become that bitch.

If any of you are interested in those steps, there are plenty of remarkably effective and helpful theories and techniques to help solidify the foundation of your game, provided you are willing to make changes and take some risks. Specifically, pick-up instruction manuals and reading material. Yes, these may seem hokey, but speaking from experience, you would be amazed at how incredibly effective they are in laying out the groundwork for scoring with women. You don't have to be the stereotypical "jerk" guy or douchebag in order to get ladies, you just need to use your brain.
I relate trying to pick up women using pick up material with playing football:

Some dudes are born with the ability to play football in their genes. Some others are taught from birth the fundamentals of the game. For these people, they have no problem playing the game at its highest levels.

For most dudes though, they are never taught the proper fundamentals. Nobody teaches them the basics, the proper footwork, the mental approach, and the repetitions needed to hone your skills. What happens when you throw out somebody with literally no experience onto a football field to play? They get their f'n asses beaten, maybe even seriously injured. Their confidence gets shot and nothing seems to work. Well, if you teach this person the fundamentals and basic theories of the game, this person has a much better chance of success.

The pick up teachings are the fundamentals to picking up women.

**Graphik** · 03-20-2007, 10:12 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Graphik: I'm glad you are the one porking your girlfriend while the other herb is sitting awake at night putting your girl on a pedestal and day dreaming about her. You tool on that kid. However, it should be noted that some dudes can become real obsessed with ladies and lose their minds over the girl. You don't want this Stu to one day go postal on everybody including you.

So all I'm saying is to treat this dude carefully. I'm not exactly sure which route to go in this instance, because I've never been in this identical situation, but it would be best for you if this dude took his eyes off your lady. Maybe send a vid of you slamming the girl . Better yet, find him women to keep his mind off your lady. You don't want to keep this guy's dreams alive though..

I dont know much about the guy but from what I hear and what my brief impressions on him is that he may be slightly on the psyco side. Hence the reason why this topic was brought up.

What I found odd was one day about a week ago. Me and my girl head to her crib at about 2:30 in the morning. We get there and 10 minutes later we hear a knock at her back window. Its dude and he was claiming he was locked out his crib and her grandma wouldn't answer her bell at her building as well. Thing is, her grandma is a night owl so she called, answered and said nobody came and rang her bell. So he lied about that. Plus what type of coincedence is it that he happens to pop up in the middle of the night right as she gets home? Like he was waiting in the alley for her to get home or something.

She sent him off but he knew I was there so he pops up the very next day in the afternoon and he wants to get his hat back that he left over there. He was just looking for an excuse to step in cause he walked in an saw me sitting there in her bedroom and now all of a sudden he has to go do something. Thats some crazy ish right there.

**Kruza** · 03-20-2007, 10:17 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Heh, I haven't heard the term "cuddle b-tch" before, but after reading the defintion on that website it sounds like a "rebound chick" to me or "rebound guy" for women.

Kruza

**jmood88** · 03-20-2007, 10:31 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by Graphik

I dont know much about the guy but from what I hear and what my brief impressions on him is that he may be slightly on the psyco side. Hence the reason why this topic was brought up.

What I found odd was one day about a week ago. Me and my girl head to her crib at about 2:30 in the morning. We get there and 10 minutes later we hear a knock at her back window. Its dude and he was claiming he was locked out his crib and her grandma wouldn't answer her bell at her building as well. Thing is, her grandma is a night owl so she called, answered and said nobody came and rang her bell. So he lied about that. Plus what type of coincedence is it that he happens to pop up in the middle of the night right as she gets home? Like he was waiting in the alley for her to get home or something.

She sent him off but he knew I was there so he pops up the very next day in the afternoon and he wants to get his hat back that he left over there. He was just looking for an excuse to step in cause he walked in an saw me sitting there in her bedroom and now all of a sudden he has to go do something. Thats some crazy ish right there.

That's sad. He needs to move on and try to find another girl.

**the_future420** · 03-20-2007, 10:33 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by Graphik

I dont know much about the guy but from what I hear and what my brief impressions on him is that he may be slightly on the psyco side. Hence the reason why this topic was brought up.

What I found odd was one day about a week ago. Me and my girl head to her crib at about 2:30 in the morning. We get there and 10 minutes later we hear a knock at her back window. Its dude and he was claiming he was locked out his crib and her grandma wouldn't answer her bell at her building as well. Thing is, her grandma is a night owl so she called, answered and said nobody came and rang her bell. So he lied about that. Plus what type of coincedence is it that he happens to pop up in the middle of the night right as she gets home? Like he was waiting in the alley for her to get home or something.

She sent him off but he knew I was there so he pops up the very next day in the afternoon and he wants to get his hat back that he left over there. He was just looking for an excuse to step in cause he walked in an saw me sitting there in her bedroom and now all of a sudden he has to go do something. Thats some crazy ish right there.

Alright, Ive been following this topic and your posts Graphik, and this right here tells me that this cat is crazy. Bottom line. If this guy doesn't get a romantic interest outside of your girl soon, this situation is gonna come to a volatile conclusion at some point or another. I don't know how much of a "friendship" your girl and stalker boy have, but she would be naive to think this guy doesn't have feelings for her. You gotta convice your girl that this guy ain't stable. Dude might try to harm you, your girl or himself at some point or another since it seems like you got your girl hemmed up and he don't have a shot. Im not saying this dude is 100% gonna get violent or anything, but be prepared to take the neccessary steps to deal with this.

**Graphik** · 03-20-2007, 10:33 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by Kruza

Heh, I haven't heard the term "cuddle b-tch" before, but after reading the defintion on that website it sounds like a "rebound chick" to me or "rebound guy" for women.

Kruza

I wouldn't call it a rebound chick or vice versa. Its just when a chick developes intimate feelings about you but doesn't develope any strong physical attraction to you. Its the ultimate kiss of death because it fools the guy into thinking he has a chance but never gets a chance to step up to the plate. Females are notorious for having them.

As for a rebound chick or guy, at least they get to smash from time to time. A cuddle bitch gets nothing but good and sometimes flirtatious conversation....that leads to nothing.

**Graphik** · 03-20-2007, 10:59 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by the_future420

Alright, Ive been following this topic and your posts Graphik, and this right here tells me that this cat is crazy. Bottom line. If this guy doesn't get a romantic interest outside of your girl soon, this situation is gonna come to a volatile conclusion at some point or another. I don't know how much of a "friendship" your girl and stalker boy have, but she would be naive to think this guy doesn't have feelings for her. You gotta convice your girl that this guy ain't stable. Dude might try to harm you, your girl or himself at some point or another since it seems like you got your girl hemmed up and he don't have a shot. Im not saying this dude is 100% gonna get violent or anything, but be prepared to take the neccessary steps to deal with this.

I feel you on that. When I first met him, he wanted to pull me to the side and have a "talk" with me. First thing he says is "when I first saw you, I didn't like you". I'm like, "how can you not like somebody you dont even know"? At that very point, I knew this dude had some issues. So he keeps talking bout how she tells him everything and that they go way back and such and such. Thats when he asked if I was hitting that. He ends the convo saying "now that I got to know you, you seem like a cool dude". First thing I thought to myself was this guy is a cuddle bitch. Hell, even when I was a cuddle bitch I did'nt feel the need to meet and greet the girls boyfriends. I just stayed my jealous azz in the corner and hoped that the dude eventually F'ed up at some point. He obviously acts as he's her gaurdian angel and tries to sway her opinion about dudes. Which is probably as bad as you can get if you're obsessed with someone.

Anyway, I talked to her about him this past weekend, she told me that "he doesn't like me". I'm like "No s***". Then she proceeds to tell me about their history. They got together at some point in the past. Probably when they were young, she did'nt exactly tell me when. She broke it off with him because he was to soft. He couldn't speak up for himself and she walked all over him. But they continued to be friends. So I'm guessing that the only reason why she does keep him around is to use him cause she knows he'll do anything for her anyway. Every decent looking female has had one at some point in time. He really is a family friend though from what I heard but if you ask me, he's only tryna make himself eligible by clinging to her family. A useless tactic that I've seen done before.

As for him trying something, I've already thought about that. He plays this tough role when I can already see right through to his cupcake-ness. I wanna convince my girl to stop using him but that'll make me seem like I'm jealous when its the other way around.

**the_future420** · 03-20-2007, 11:24 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by Graphik

I feel you on that. When I first met him, he wanted to pull me to the side and have a "talk" with me. First thing he says is "when I first saw you, I didn't like you". I'm like, "how can you not like somebody you dont even know"? At that very point, I knew this dude had some issues. So he keeps talking bout how she tells him everything and that they go way back and such and such. Thats when he asked if I was hitting that. He ends the convo saying "now that I got to know you, you seem like a cool dude". First thing I thought to myself was this guy is a cuddle bitch. Hell, even when I was a cuddle bitch I did'nt feel the need to meet and greet the girls boyfriends. I just stayed my jealous azz in the corner and hoped that the dude eventually F'ed up at some point. He obviously acts as he's her gaurdian angel and tries to sway her opinion about dudes. Which is probably as bad as you can get if you're obsessed with someone.

Anyway, I talked to her about him this past weekend, she told me that "he doesn't like me". I'm like "No s***". Then she proceeds to tell me about their history. They got together at some point in the past. Probably when they were young, she did'nt exactly tell me when. She broke it off with him because he was to soft. He couldn't speak up for himself and she walked all over him. But they continued to be friends. So I'm guessing that the only reason why she does keep him around is to use him cause she knows he'll do anything for her anyway. Every decent looking female has had one at some point in time. He really is a family friend though from what I heard but if you ask me, he's only tryna make himself eligible by clinging to her family. A useless tactic that I've seen done before.

As for him trying something, I've already thought about that. He plays this tough role when I can already see right through to his cupcake-ness. I wanna convince my girl to stop using him but that'll make me seem like I'm jealous when its the other way around.

Oh okay.I can see why your girl would want to keep this guy around. He's probably the type that'll wake up at 3am and drive 5 miles to white castle just cuz your girl woke up hungry and wanted a cheeseburger and once he gets there say something like "i bet your bf wouldn't have done this for you". You seem like u are playing this situation the right way. I would be a little leery that they hooked up in the past, but as long as you keep your game tight, this guy is gonna be a cuddle b**ch for while. he'll probably come on too strong to your girl one night and she'll take a step back from him.

**Graphik** · 03-20-2007, 11:51 AM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Originally posted by the_future420

Oh okay.I can see why your girl would want to keep this guy around. He's probably the type that'll wake up at 3am and drive 5 miles to white castle just cuz your girl woke up hungry and wanted a cheeseburger and once he gets there say something like "i bet your bf wouldn't have done this for you". You seem like u are playing this situation the right way. I would be a little leery that they hooked up in the past, but as long as you keep your game tight, this guy is gonna be a cuddle b**ch for while. he'll probably come on too strong to your girl one night and she'll take a step back from him.

One thing about a cuddlebitch is that their to scared to make any bold moves or strong advances. So they sit and keep playing the nice guy role in hopes that maybe one day she'll see the light. Well, this is from my old experience anyway but I've found this to be true with other cuddlebitches. One thing I learned the hard way about chicks is most like it when you make bold moves. Not exactly shoving your tounge down their throat bold but dont be scared to make a move. It can be as simple as putting your arm around her on your first date. Anyways, a cuddlebitch becomes a cuddlebitch because their afraid of rejection. Its the only way I can even see that this guy has hung around for 5 years and hasn't reached 1st base. Its actually to late for him. She pretty much treats him like a nuisance instead of a good friend. She's always treating him like dirt. Could be her own way of getting rid of him gently instead of flatout hurting his feelings. Unfortunately, I dont think he'll ever get the hint.

**the_future420** · 03-20-2007, 12:05 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

I'm sure she'll get tired of being around this weak dude at some point, but don't expect it too soon. Girls like knowing they can pull the strings on guys that are real thirsty to be with them. Especially since your girl is young, she's gonna thrive on that even more. You really got no reason to worry though, im sure she doesn't respect this dude, he's just a lil ego boost for your girl is all.

**Mr. JimmyFly** · 03-20-2007, 04:28 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

This is genius, thanks for sharing...

**Beantown** · 03-20-2007, 04:34 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

Used the whole..."Show the girl this site and point out cuddle bitch section" to the girl idea and bam....there's one girl I'm not going to be talking to as much anymore. Eff that.

**TheMatrix31** · 03-20-2007, 04:46 PM

Re: The Ladder Theory revisited

The Ladder Theory is amazing.

I'm actually trying to work out of the "best" friend zone, however, there is obvious deep interest on both our ends. It's more of an issue now of sacrificing friendship for a possible relationship.

I guess that's the issue that is faced if someone actually works OUT of the friend zone. It's bad enough getting out of the damn zone as is, let alone overcoming that major mental obstacle.

The Ladder Theory revisited

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