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Is my sting operation legal?

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  • Dallasin2K3
    MVP
    • Jul 2002
    • 3135

    #1

    Is my sting operation legal?

    Alright, so I work out at the campus rec center 3x/week. I never bring my wallet intentionally, but did on accident one day last week. Needless to say, despite the idea that I had that no one would mess with it, it was stolen.

    Come to find out the same thing happened to a friend the day after that, same place, and that $20,000 in property has been stolen from the rec center this year ($2,000 in wallets the last month ALONE). Apparently this theft problem is RIDICULOUS.

    So, I decided to set up a sting operation with a crew of my buddies. Odds are, they won't hit again at the same time as last week, but it's happening over and over again. I think it's happening SO MUCH that there's a damn good chance we catch someone trying to steal some ****.

    Here's the plan (I like my use of police terminology.. lol):

    Crew: David A., Jon S., Rob D., Claire S., Kat R., Nathan P.

    There will ideally be two dummy wallets loaded with 1 dollar bills, my old ID, fake credit cards, etc. XXXX will be in possession of one. XXXX will be in possession of the other.
    That leaves Jon, Kat, Claire, and Nathan. They will all enter the rec center, staggered, around ----- PM and begin their "workouts". Jon will man a stationary bike, another on a stairclimber, another doing some ab workouts, and a floater. Rotate machines. Periodically, take turns sitting out in the lobby, chatting on the cell. We want someone in the lobby if possible in case we get someone who tries to leave quickly.

    Rules:
    1) Do not be obviously paying attention. If it looks like you are fixated on the cubbies, nothing will get stolen. Use your peripheral. Use mirrors. You get the idea.
    2) PAY ATTENTION. If we ACTUALLY get another wallet stolen, that's sad.

    At ---- PM, XXXX and XXXX will enter, staggered, and each place dummy wallets in the cubbies, in an easy to steal place. Not under anything, just sitting there. Along with them, we will place our keys, just like we would normally do. They are to be placed in otherwise vacant cubbies, if possible. Once the dummies are placed, we each go upstairs and run a few laps about a half lap seperating us so that we can have one guy on the track watching the situation at all times.
    When the wallet gets jacked, the person that spots it must immediately follow the suspect. DO NOT MAKE IT KNOWN THAT YOU ARE FOLLOWING HIM OR THAT YOU KNOW HE STOLE SOMETHING. Say nothing. Conveniently leave at the same time, make it nonchalant, as if nothing is wrong. Immediately notify other teammates, but do not notify teammates if you risk losing the target. The signal for the target wallet being stolen is the "number one" hand signal.

    DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE SUSPECT, FOLLOW AT A DISTANCE OF 40 FEET.

    Once the suspect LEAVES THE DOORS of the rec center, he can no longer pull the, "Oh, I thought the wallet was lost and was taking it to the (desk/employee/bull****)." Everyone should get in pursuit at this point and confront the suspect outside the rec center. Have university police contacted immediately, either by telling someone at the front desk (discreetly) that your wallet was stolen and you saw (THAT GUY) do it while you're following him and then get back after him, or by dialing on the cell. If he RUNS, follow his ***. Tackle him if you have to and make sure the PD apprehends him.

    Let's get these bitches.
    So... is this legal? We're basically going to put our wallets with nothing really valuable in them and then just WAIT for someone to try and jack it. Then chase them down. (If they run, are we allowed to apprehend them? I don't see why not. If someone stole my laptop or something, I'd sure as hell tackle them. Then probably beat the **** out of them.)

    I also welcome ideas to improve our little "operation".
    Last edited by Dallasin2K3; 03-24-2007, 02:51 AM.
    Originally Posted by Briman123

    I'd rather drink beer because drinking alot of beers makes you more manly.
  • Bird006
    MVP
    • Mar 2003
    • 961

    #2
    Re: Is my sting operation legal?

    That's some Oceans 11 ****. LOL make sure to notify us what happens.


    To answer the question... I don't think it would be illegal. Their the ones that are stealing...

    Comment

    • dkgojackets
      Banned
      • Mar 2005
      • 13816

      #3
      Re: Is my sting operation legal?

      who on the team will be videotaping?

      Comment

      • psufan
        We are...
        • Jul 2002
        • 1950

        #4
        Re: Is my sting operation legal?

        It's actually a good idea. I wouldn't even tell your campus police that it was a setup though because it'll probably just be a headache. I hope you catch the moron(s). My one buddy had some cash and a giant eagle discount card(lol) stolen this past week. I would like to know where the heck you go to school at and does your school have video cameras installed? I mean jeez, $20,000 is ridiculous.
        "Besides pride, loyalty, discipline, heart, and mind, confidence is the key to all the locks." --Joe Paterno

        LET'S GO PENS!!!

        Comment

        • WTF
          MVP
          • Aug 2002
          • 20274

          #5
          Re: Is my sting operation legal?

          Perfectly legal. Good luck man. Let us know how it turns out.
          Twitter - WTF_OS
          #DropMeAFollow

          Comment

          • GBrushTWood
            Banned
            • Mar 2003
            • 1624

            #6
            Re: Is my sting operation legal?

            Great plan. As long as the perp doesn't pull out a handgun and blow the person who is tailing him to bits. Then, not so great plan. :-\ The perp could also have a knife or some other weapon on him..

            Comment

            • Knight165
              *ll St*r
              • Feb 2003
              • 24964

              #7
              Re: Is my sting operation legal?

              If you want a former police officers answer and advice...here it is.

              Legal? Yep. However, I've seen enough "open and shut" cases twisted by either lawyers or judges to say that NOTHING is a lock.

              Good idea? Nope. Too many things can go wrong....and very bad...very quickly.
              Like someone stated....the perp could be carrying a weapon and be very ready to use it......or you guys could get into an altercation with this "gentleman" and wind up hurting him in a scuffle and then you might as well hand him the wallet you set him up with...the keys to your car...the keys to your house(or the money you plan to use to buy one) when he sues you....AND WINS.
              I know...you're saying that won't happen...you and your boys will stay cool...until things get heated and the fists etc....start flyin'.

              Tough call...but I would just leave it to the police...and keep yourself from being in a position to be stolen from.

              M.K.
              Knight165
              All gave some. Some gave all. 343

              Comment

              • Dallasin2K3
                MVP
                • Jul 2002
                • 3135

                #8
                Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                I talked to a former undercover police officer about it. He said that there are a lot of problems with it. We aren't authorized to use force to detain him, for one thing. If we hurt him in the process of chasing him down, we could be in a lot more trouble than he is.

                He told me that the biggest problem, though, is that people like this aren't rational and don't take responsibility for anything. If we did catch someone, odds are, he'd be expelled from school, charged, life ruined (for most intents and purposes). People like that have a tendency to want to find you and get even. He said it wouldn't be likely that we'd get shot or something on the premises, but the possibility will be there for a long while after if the guy is able to find out a name or anything about one of the people that "ruined his life".

                He concluded by saying, "It's not a good idea. . . but.... to tell you the truth... I wish I could be there to do that with you!" LOL

                I'm probably going to modify the sting.
                The first change, as recommended by the former cop:

                1) Confront the suspect in the lobby, before he gets outside. It's much safer here and someone else can see the whole thing transpire and call the cops. Also, he said it is much more likely for the perp to try and go straight to the bathroom, dump the wallet and only keep the cash and maybe credit cards, and THEN leave - in which case we have to stop him before he dumps it or it's hard to prove anything.

                2) Make sure no one has any form of I.D. on them and no form of ID in the dummy wallet (although we will need something in there that is unusual, like 7 dollar bills with big red X's on them, or something). I'll be leaving the state for good in about a month and a half, so I'm not too worried about someone finding me and getting even, but some of the other guys may have something to worry about. It's definately a lot riskier than I thought it would be and I'll have to talk to them about that.

                3) Call the police BEFOREHAND and ask them what steps they are taking to prevent theft in the rec center. (They aren't doing ****, FYI.) That way, when they say, "Oh, well, nothing specific, you know, we're working on it, blah blah", I have some legal defense to stopping a thief when he jacks the wallet.

                4) Do not use force to apprehend the suspect. Follow him for as long as it's safe, but you don't want to attack him. If he attacks first, then that's fine, self defense, but follow and call the police instead of detaining him if he runs.

                and

                5) Pay special attention to people coming into the rec center with nothing.

                I'll let you all know what happens.
                Last edited by Dallasin2K3; 03-25-2007, 08:38 PM.
                Originally Posted by Briman123

                I'd rather drink beer because drinking alot of beers makes you more manly.

                Comment

                • TheGamingChef
                  MVP
                  • Jun 2006
                  • 3384

                  #9
                  Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                  Yeah man, let us know what goes down. As a budding lawyer, I can tell you that there is nothing wrong with this, although as someone mentioned, you probably don't need to mention that it was a setup. Just leave a normal wallet with small denominational bills laying out and follow your plan.

                  It's not like it's a provocation or entrapment. You're not inducing or forcing the perp to do anything.

                  Good luck, and I hope you catch him (or her).

                  Comment

                  • Altimus
                    Chelsea, Assemble!
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 27283

                    #10
                    Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                    What your doing is really cool man. I understand the frustration behind getting robbed and what not. Good luck man and don't get in trouble yourself or your buddies.

                    Comment

                    • Jimplication
                      MVP
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 3591

                      #11
                      Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                      I wouldn't risk my life for a few bucks. It's just money.

                      File a report with the police or someone that is trained and authorized to pursue such matters, and leave the James Bond scenarios for Hollywood.
                      Enjoy football? Enjoy Goal Line Blitz!

                      Comment

                      • EWRMETS
                        All Star
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 7491

                        #12
                        Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                        Ignoring legal arguments and making a logical argument, just because someone steals a wallet that was set up to be easily stolen doesn't mean they are responsible for all the thefts occuring at your school.

                        Comment

                        • eXperiment63
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 3077

                          #13
                          Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                          Don't mark the bills.. if he sees that he may put it back and realize he's being set up. Just take and write down every S/N and series for each bill you put in the wallet(s).

                          Comment

                          • McLite
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 2113

                            #14
                            Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                            There is nothing illegal about that. I would change a few things though. If you are serious about watching it and catching the person...don't have anybody follow him out. Have 2 ways or a cell phone and have two people sitting outside in a vehicle. Then radio ahead...white male, black male, asian female, hispanic female (did I cover everyone), with a clothing description. Then have the people outside relay the informaton to the campus police as they follow them, either on foot or in a vehicle.

                            The theif will be very wary and cautious about anyone who follows him from inside the building. Thus causing the fight or flight to go into effect. It might not even be a student and the last thing you want is someone to get stabbed or seriously hurt in a fight.

                            If you do catch them though unless they confess to everything else it might just be petty theft, which is only a misdemeanor in Nevada. If you can prove intent that they went inside to steal then it gets trumped up to a felony...but the smart ones know what to say and what not too.

                            The best method if you can't catch them might be just to deter any future action. Lockable cubbies, signs which say "this section is under video surveillance", or even a dummy camera. Target hardening as we call it. Thiefs will always steal...just make them think enough where they will leave for easier hunting.
                            - The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.

                            Comment

                            • ubernoob
                              ****
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 15522

                              #15
                              Re: Is my sting operation legal?

                              Oh Snap! I've been caught.



                              I'd do it with ya if I were there for sure though... Sounds like something I would plan.
                              bad

                              Comment

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