Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

[baumy300]

I know there are a few intelligent people on here who have some life experience, so this is the situation I am in, and also a cry for advice.

Here's the deal:

about 3-4 weeks ago I bought a 1999 Cadillac Eldorado from a private party in a town 80 miles away. Both me and my father (who owned a mechanic shop at one time) went to check it out and make sure everything was OK. So we get there and this car is in amazing shape. Are 120,000 miles on it, but the car is almost flawless. We drive it about 10 miles and have a look under the hood. Everything seems fine and the car feels great.

We go back and tell the guy we will take it for $5,000, which was his asking price. The first red flag came up when we had to wait on the title so he could pay Chrysler $700 (he owed 6,200 on it) and write his debt with them off. He told us that he had his hours at work cut from 70 hours a week to 40 and therefore had no more overtime and was forced to get rid of one of his vehicles. I'll buy that story.

So OK, we get the car, drive it 80 miles home, and then park it in the garage. I did a little around-town driving, but that was about it. Since I live in a really small town, I have to keep going back to the town where i bought the car at to get supplies and just other things that my town doesn't have. My first up there was a disaster. The car overheated on the way back. We looked at it and the car was completely drained of coolant. We put some water in to get back home and then filled it with coolant. I drove it around town a bit, but nothing major after that. Fast forward a week and the same thing - Took it to the bigger city, the thing overheated.

OK, so now I'm worried. We had the mechanic change the thermostat, look over it, and then even put the bar-leak head gasket repair solution in because figured it was a head gasket. I just got the car today from the mechanic and I went to take it on a road trip when the thing overheated again within the first 10 miles.

It was all making sense - The guy knew this car had been giving him trouble, so he dumped it off. Here are some things that could be a factor in the court case:

1. The guy swore up and down to us that the car was serviced every month. If this is true, there should be invoices from places.

2. He sold the car for $5,500 and still owed 6,200 on it. The car only books at 65 or so, so he must have known something bad was going on with it.

3. If his hours did get cut so significantly his employer should be able to confirm that. This should be brought up in small claims court, right? I mean just to make sure he's telling the truth about why he is selling it.

4. I only put 2-300 miles on this car, and I did not run it hard, so there is a very slim chance all of this would just pop up. Especially given the circumstances of him selling it.

So I am at a loss. I am a college student working part time and I NEED a vehicle. After the loan owe 6k on this car and I can't afford to just pull another 4 out of nowhere to replace the engine.

I am going to take this guy to small claims court, not because I am angry or frustrated, but because I truly believe he screwed me.

What are your guys opinions? Advice?

[mkharsh33]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

do you have a contract in place or did you get anything in writing? verbal agreements will be very difficult to prove...

hope all works out well for you - my college days are going on 14 years behind me, but i remember those same worries you had and it can be a tough time financially. hang in there...

[baumy300]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

do you have a contract in place or did you get anything in writing? verbal agreements will be very difficult to prove...

hope all works out well for you - my college days are going on 14 years behind me, but i remember those same worries you had and it can be a tough time financially. hang in there...

Thanks buddy.

There is no contract, jus his word against mine and my fathers.

He must have just boughten the car if he still owed 6,200 on it. I doubt his whole story about hours being cut is true, and I say this because he had a brand new motorcycle sitting next to his other vehicles. I commented on it and he said he didn't pick it up too long ago, so I don't know. I want to believe the guy, but I really think he nailed me on this one.

I have bad luck, but not bad enough to drive a car 150 miles before it falls apart.

[HMMurdock311]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

I'm not sure about the small claims court question, But I do have a question for you about the car.

You said the coolant was gone. What kind did you replace it with? If it wasn't a 50/50 mix of Dex-Cool and water that could be a big problem. GM vehicles need the DEX-COOL to function properly. It's a Orange colored coolant. If you put anything other than that in it can cause a bunch of different problems. Some crap mechanic I once went to replaced it with the normal green coolant that you can get anywhere in my GM (it was a Pontiac) and that coolant completely destroyed the water pump and hoses. If the dexcool and regular "Green" coolant were mixed it can make a horrid sludge problem, along with the other problems I mentioned. If they were mixed you need to get that system flushed as much as you can.

[baumy300]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

I'm not sure about the small claims court question, But I do have a question for you about the car.

You said the coolant was gone. What kind did you replace it with? If it wasn't a 50/50 mix of Dex-Cool and water that could be a big problem. GM vehicles need the DEX-COOL to function properly. It's a Orange colored coolant. If you put anything other than that in it can cause a bunch of different problems. Some crap mechanic I once went to replaced it with the normal green coolant that you can get anywhere in my GM (it was a Pontiac) and that coolant completely destroyed the water pump and hoses. If the dexcool and regular "Green" coolant were mixed it can make a horrid sludge problem, along with the other problems I mentioned. If they were mixed you need to get that system flushed as much as you can.

I don't think it was the "orange" coolant. I would hope my mechanic would know something that should be so basic like what kind of coolant goes into what cars, but it is possible he doesn't. So you recommend flushing the system and putting the dex-cool in? I will bring that up to my mechanic, but I think the system has already been flushed when the head gasket repair went into it.

I really don't want this to go to a court of any kind, and I would much rather just get the car fixed, but right now no one can find out what exactly is wrong and fix it and the way it seems is that this guy knew what was going on and he pawned it off.

Thanks for all the good information though. I saved what you told me in a notepad and I am going to bring it all up tomorrow.

[HMMurdock311]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

Glad to be of some help.

I' trust what my mechanic told me when he replaced my water pump about the dexcool, but I've heard/read conflicting reports on which is better. I personally have had no problems with the dexcool, so long as you do a 50/50 mix with water (distilled or just plain old drinkable water). Just make sure you ask your mechanic to check the water pump, as that's where alot of cooling issues end up at.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

1. The guy swore up and down to us that the car was serviced every month. If this is true, there should be invoices from places.

If there are invoices, this is something you probably should have asked for before the sale. All he has to say now is I sold the car and since he didn't need them anymore, he threw them away. Or he could just deny he ever said that to begin with. Monthly service is a little overboard anyway. Most cars don't require basic service (oil change/tire rotation) for 3-5K miles.

I would think you should easily be able to get a carfax report, which if he took this place to a mechanic regularly, the service records should show up on a carfax report. It's only like $25 and would definitely help you out (though the judge might say tha this is something you should have purchased prior to purchasing the vehicle).

2. He sold the car for $5,500 and still owed 6,200 on it. The car only books at 65 or so, so he must have known something bad was going on with it.

This isn't to uncommon. A lot of people sell or trade in vehicles in which they are upside down on (owe more than the car is worth) or owe more than they can get for it. Also, I don't know how long the car was on the market for, but maybe he initially tried to sell it at book value and had no luck and dropped the price.

3. If his hours did get cut so significantly his employer should be able to confirm that. This should be brought up in small claims court, right? I mean just to make sure he's telling the truth about why he is selling it.

I believe this is your burden to prove, not his. You have to prove he is guilty more than he has to prove he is innocent. I doubt you will get his employer to show up at Small Claims Court, so your best bet is to contact him and see if he will give you this info, which he most likely won't be able to do, due to legal reasons.

If you have some free time, you could even follow him for a week to see what kind of hours he is actually working. If you document this and he is lying, it may discredit him

4. I only put 2-300 miles on this car, and I did not run it hard, so there is a very slim chance all of this would just pop up. Especially given the circumstances of him selling it.

I agree and I'm not sure what the restrictions are on used cars. I don't think lemon laws apply on used car sales. And things sometimes just do pop up. My wife and I had her Civic up for sale for about a month and all of a sudden her check engine light came on because the exhaust manifold (cracked) and O2 sensor needed to be replaced. Had we sold the car a week before, this would have happened to the buyer and we would have had no idea. I think the fact that the car had 120,000 miles on it is kind of warning sign that the car is getting up there in age to where things like that start happening. Problems are kind of expected when you hit the 100K milestone (and sometimes even lower).

So I am at a loss. I am a college student working part time and I NEED a vehicle. After the loan owe 6k on this car and I can't afford to just pull another 4 out of nowhere to replace the engine.

I am going to take this guy to small claims court, not because I am angry or frustrated, but because I truly believe he screwed me.

What are your guys opinions? Advice?

With a small claims case, the max you can sue this guy is for $5K. So if you are trying to get your money back, you'd still be out $500 bucks ($5500-$5000).

Also, you haven't mentioned, but have you tried to contact this guy first? If you haven't you might try this. Maybe he is a decent guy and will help you out? It's not likely, but he may be responsive.

I just think when buying a used car, which are usually sold "As-Is" it's "buyer be ware". It's always a good idea to get the car inspected at a shop, where they can put it on a lift and run some diagnostics on it.

Also, are you sure the engine needs full replacement? If it doesn't, you won't be able to justify your claim for $4,000 for a new engine.

You will definitely want to get it into a shop and have a diagnostic ran on it so you can get an estimate of what is broken and exactly how much it will cost. If you just tell the judge that it needs a $4,000 engine, he will tell you to prove it.

Good luck with this, but make sure you have all of your bases covered and have enough burden of proof to make this guy look like he knowingly and intentionally sold you a damaged vehicle without telling you. It's basically going to be your word vs. his word so any documentation you can get your hands on will help.

Let us know how it goes.

Also, if MassNole doesn't chime in, you may want to PM him. I believe he just passed the bar and may be able to help you out with some basic advice.

[p_rushing]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

Don't know if you have a case, but for the car I have some ideas.

I had some issues with over heating in my old mustang. It turned out that the cooling fan behind the radiator was not turning on. I replaced the water pump, thermostat, and then the fan itself. Also check the fuses that would turn any fans on to help cool the engine.

[HMMurdock311]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

Don't know if you have a case, but for the car I have some ideas.

I had some issues with over heating in my old mustang. It turned out that the cooling fan behind the radiator was not turning on. I replaced the water pump, thermostat, and then the fan itself. Also check the fuses that would turn any fans on to help cool the engine.

Good advice. Make sure it's not something simple first.

I'm not sure how the engine in the El Dorado is set up but GM likes to make it hard to get to the Water Pump in some of it's cars. So it's best to eliminate the simple things first.

[MassNole]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

To preface I know nothing about the specific laws of North Dakota, but a few things pop out at me from your situation.

1) When cars are over 5-7 years old, which this one is, there is generally no need for the car to have a warranty, so as such you buy the car "as is".

2) If you enter into a contract for over $500 you must have it in writing, otherwise evidence cannot come in of things that were said in the formation of the contract. That being said the rules of evidence don't fully apply in small claims court.

3) This pops out as the biggest issue to me in these facts. He didn't have the title to the car, and generally speaking one cannot pass on the title to you in this situation, as technically GM owns that car. As such the entire transaction is null and void and you should be able to get your $5000 back. Lucky for you $5000 is the limit in North Dakota small claims court and you won't need an attorney.

[CMH]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

Definitely speak to the guy first. You never know.

[baumy300]

Re: Has anyone ever been to small claims court?

Wow, thank you all for the well thought, intelligent responses. I would love to address each one specifically, but that would take forever.

I got a hold of the guy and he of course swears up and down that the car is fine. He even said he got a new job because his hours were cut so far, but I asked where and he said that it's personal. Maybe because he was lying? Anyways, I don't even know if this joker is worth my time or not.

The car is almost 100% a head gasket problem. We are having it estimated tomorrow by a good friend of our families who owns an auto mechanic shop. He used to work for my dad when he owned his, but then left when my dad shut his down and started his own, so not only is he a very good mechanic, but we know he will treat us fair and give us a deal.

That's where I am as of now, and I told to be expecting a bill for around $1,200 to fix the gaskets. That is a lot better than what I expected earlier.

As far as court, I am really tempted to call his old place of employment and ask for him. If they he doesn't work there anymore then end of story. However, if he does, then I am tempted to cause trouble.