Pfizer fined record $2.3B

[J0nnD0ugh]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/09/...ine/index.html

If a corporation does something so illegal, that they can be fined a million dollars, exactly why isn't anyone going to jail? This is $2,300,000,000!!!!!

[Whitesox]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

Saw this on Yahoo today, but I didn't click on the article. That's a LOT of money.

[p_rushing]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

That picture is of the building I'm working in right now. I don't work for Pfizer though.

This type of promotion happens all the time. Its basically off label treatments that a drug works on, but that wasn't tested for and didn't get the FDA approval for. The Sales Reps can't directly market this information, but it happens. Someone takes the drug, some other non related issue then goes away, and then the word spreads. Then other doctors will give knowledge sessions, etc, on how it works. They got caught crossing the line I guess.

Reason no one is going to jail is because there probably wasn't 1 person to blame and it was settled to avoid that. Its a lot of money, but not much when you look at what they make.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

That picture is of the building I'm working in right now. I don't work for Pfizer though.

This type of promotion happens all the time. Its basically off label treatments that a drug works on, but that wasn't tested for and didn't get the FDA approval for. The Sales Reps can't directly market this information, but it happens. Someone takes the drug, some other non related issue then goes away, and then the word spreads. Then other doctors will give knowledge sessions, etc, on how it works. They got caught crossing the line I guess.

Reason no one is going to jail is because there probably wasn't 1 person to blame and it was settled to avoid that. Its a lot of money, but not much when you look at what they make.

I don't believe there is 1 person to blame. I believe there are hundreds to blame.

"....promoted four drugs for use on certain ailments or at dosages that were not approved...."

What's the difference between that & selling crack? Meth? Heroin? Pot? etc?

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

What's the difference between that & selling crack? Meth? Heroin? Pot? etc?

None and the effects of which are much the same. Take any street drug and there are plenty of off label treatments they could be used for.

[p_rushing]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

I don't believe there is 1 person to blame. I believe there are hundreds to blame.

"....promoted four drugs for use on certain ailments or at dosages that were not approved...."

What's the difference between that & selling crack? Meth? Heroin? Pot? etc?

Well the doctor still has to prescribe it to you. Its one thing if they went directly to the consumer, but your doctor should still do some reading before giving you a drug because a rep said something.

[youvalss]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

Pfizer pfined...

I used to work at an advertising agency that did advertising ads for Pfizer...There was some great creativity there. Anyway, drug companies are so powerful that it's out of control.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

Well the doctor still has to prescribe it to you. Its one thing if they went directly to the consumer, but your doctor should still do some reading before giving you a drug because a rep said something.

They sold it to doctors for unallowed purposes. That's the same thing as the growers selling to the pushers. I'm sorry, but just because they wore a suit & tie instead of sneaks & a t-shirt doesn't change the act. A bunch of people should be in jail. Instead, they are still making a ton of money, living in high class neighborhoods, chilling.

[p_rushing]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

They sold it to doctors for unallowed purposes. That's the same thing as the growers selling to the pushers. I'm sorry, but just because they wore a suit & tie instead of sneaks & a t-shirt doesn't change the act. A bunch of people should be in jail. Instead, they are still making a ton of money, living in high class neighborhoods, chilling.

Pfizer doesn't sell anything to the doctors. The sales reps advertise to the doctors. The sales reps provided some information, but didn't include all the negative information. The sales reps are not the ones telling you to take this drug, it is your doctor. Your doctor should then take that information and do research on their own, just like you would do when any other salesman tries to get you to buy their product.

This gets into whether they should be allowed to do this at all, as its not really about which drug is better, and it opens up the door for corruption like this.

A criminal case wouldn't work. You can't go after the whole US based sales reps, managers, executives, and any doctor who ever prescribed an off label treatment. Proving that an individual broke the law would be very hard, so that's why the government is settling it.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

Pfizer doesn't sell anything to the doctors. The sales reps advertise to the doctors. The sales reps provided some information, but didn't include all the negative information. The sales reps are not the ones telling you to take this drug, it is your doctor. Your doctor should then take that information and do research on their own, just like you would do when any other salesman tries to get you to buy their product.

This gets into whether they should be allowed to do this at all, as its not really about which drug is better, and it opens up the door for corruption like this.

A criminal case wouldn't work. You can't go after the whole US based sales reps, managers, executives, and any doctor who ever prescribed an off label treatment. Proving that an individual broke the law would be very hard, so that's why the government is settling it.

What is advertising if its not selling? Who got the money from the consumer when they bought the drugs?

This is just making excuses. This is just another case of white collar crime getting a slap on the wrist.

[p_rushing]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

I agree someone should go to jail for breaking the law, but how do you decide who in this case. Unless there is some memo, whistle blower, doctors coming forward, etc. there wouldn't be much proof. Unfortunately, it is too hard to prove who the corrupt parties were.

I don't agree with the allowing sales reps to advertise to doctors. The sales reps don't care if the product is the best, they only care about how many scripts the doctor writes. I know a former sales rep and they will do almost anything to get the scripts. It basically becomes bribery.

That's why you should always ask your doctor about why he prescribes certain drugs over other ones. You don't want your doctor giving you one drug because they are getting something back, instead of another drug that may work better for you.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

I agree someone should go to jail for breaking the law, but how do you decide who in this case. Unless there is some memo, whistle blower, doctors coming forward, etc. there wouldn't be much proof. Unfortunately, it is too hard to prove who the corrupt parties were.

I don't agree with the allowing sales reps to advertise to doctors. The sales reps don't care if the product is the best, they only care about how many scripts the doctor writes. I know a former sales rep and they will do almost anything to get the scripts. It basically becomes bribery.

That's why you should always ask your doctor about why he prescribes certain drugs over other ones. You don't want your doctor giving you one drug because they are getting something back, instead of another drug that may work better for you.

There were whistle blowers. The article said 6, I believe, are sharing in $100mil.

And I said before, everyone should go to jail. Except maybe the docs. According to the article, it sounds like they were misled by the reps into thinking the drugs could be used for other treatments & then were sent info on it. Unaware the FDA hadn't given that the green light. But the Pfizer execs & sales reps should all be hauled off. Execs = drug cartel. Reps = pushers.

[pfunk880]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

There were whistle blowers. The article said 6, I believe, are sharing in $100mil.

And I said before, everyone should go to jail. Except maybe the docs. According to the article, it sounds like they were misled by the reps into thinking the drugs could be used for other treatments & then were sent info on it. Unaware the FDA hadn't given that the green light. But the Pfizer execs & sales reps should all be hauled off. Execs = drug cartel. Reps = pushers.

If you want to play the blame game, why aren't the docs at fault as well? They should be doing their research and not just blindly trusting sales reps.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

If you want to play the blame game, why aren't the docs at fault as well? They should be doing their research and not just blindly trusting sales reps.

They did research. From the article......

The Justice Department said Pfizer sales people created sham requests from physicians asking for information about unapproved uses of certain drugs. The information was then mailed to doctors.

I think the doctors should have an expectation that a multi-billion dollar corporation wouldn't encourage them to prescribe medicine they knew wouldn't treat their patients, or even make them worse.

[pfunk880]

Re: Pfizer fined record $2.3B

They did research. From the article......

I read this quote like three times and I'm not sure how it makes your point. Where did the information come from? The FDA? Pfizer?

I think the doctors should have an expectation that a multi-billion dollar corporation wouldn't encourage them to prescribe medicine they knew wouldn't treat their patients, or even make them worse.

Well yeah, and people should have had, and did have, an expectation that banks would make smart decisions. But look what happened... they didn't, and people lost huge sums of money. Trust without verification is never a good thing, and it seems to be the case now more than ever.