Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

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  • JBH3
    Marvel's Finest
    • Jan 2007
    • 13506

    #1

    Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

    Looking to the OS community of fathers for advice, support, etc.

    The issue is my son's biting, he's 2 and a half and a bit delayed in his speech. His responsive communication is excellent, when told to sit on the potty, get his shoes, point to his nose, he can follow and do all those commands and more, but he cannot verbally communicate. We believe his delay w/ verbal communication leads to frustration, and then he lashes out by biting. For instance, if a kid takes a toy from him about the only word he knows to say or that we've been able to teach him is "No, no, no". So when his teachers here him saying that, it's likely that he was bothered by another child. His class ranges from 2 to 3 1/2 yr olds and I'd say about half or more of the 10-12 child class can verbally communicate very well given their age. So if a kid took a toy from my son (Johnny), and then Johnny bit him then the kid can go tell the teacher "Johnny bit me"....however the reason for his bitting was not necessarily Johnny's fault. While the action was wrong on behalf of my son and I don't at all condone it, the fact remains that had the kid not taken his toy then Johnny would not have bit; which then one could say that sharing needs to be taught better, or there are not of toys to go around in the classroom.

    At any rate, there's been numerous incidents at his daycare (they just called me about 10 minutes ago to inform of another one), and my wife and I are concerned over our standing there; and the thing is since we both work we have to have our son in daycare. Our issue w/ the reports we get on the biting are that they are not consistent w/ the information provided. For instance, the lady who called me a little while ago said that basically Johnny walked up to a kid minding his own business and bit him. When I asked, "Was he provoked in any way?", "Did the boy bother Johnny earlier in the morning?", she said no, she was watching him the whole time, and Johnny walked up to the child and bit him. Well if you're watching him the whole time, WHY are allowing him TO BITE? The best way to stop the biting is to catch him before he does it, which the center rarely seems able to do.

    As it stands, we have secured assistance through the Prince William County Child Find, and a speech therapist visited us 3 weeks ago. She would've started working one on one w/ Johnny, but got her purse stolen and could not drive on base to where our son's daycare is. She will however be making her first evaluation w/ him today in his daycare setting, and has provided us w/ packets upon packets of informaiton which have helped us teach Johnny in different ways; the result of which is him being A LOT more vocal then ever before.

    So OS Fathers...did you have a biter? A late talker? What worked for you? What advice can you give? Thank you in advance.
    Originally posted by Edmund Burke
    All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.
  • Happy29
    All Star
    • Jan 2006
    • 5489

    #2
    Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

    Bite him back, it stoped my son on the first try.
    “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
    Benjamin Franklin

    Comment

    • grunt
      Banned
      • Jul 2002
      • 9527

      #3
      Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

      In Boston we have early intervention. My 8 yr old and my 3 yr old have language delay issues. In most cases with speech therapy and other supports children will improve their language skills. We started early intervention with my son around 3 but with my daughter she was just over a year old. My 8 year old speech improved and he is on grade level with his reading skills and my 3 yr old is borderline with her language development.

      The biting issue may just be an issue of your son being frustrated. When a child is struggling with his language sometime they act out. I would continue to reinforce that biting isn't acceptable and he should try his best to tell his teachers. You should also communicate with his teachers that your son may be acting out of frustration and if they can give him more support during play time.

      There are some good books out there for parents dealing with language delay.

      Comment

      • JBH3
        Marvel's Finest
        • Jan 2007
        • 13506

        #4
        Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

        Originally posted by bjowers29
        Bite him back, it stoped my son on the first try.
        That's what his grandmother proposed, and it didn't work...and the Speech Therapist said it only condones biting as a way in which to 'deal' w/ things.

        Johnny never bites us at home because he has been spanked, and/or put in timeout so he has learned. But at daycare all they can do is re-direct which is basically useless.
        Originally posted by Edmund Burke
        All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

        Comment

        • JBH3
          Marvel's Finest
          • Jan 2007
          • 13506

          #5
          Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

          Originally posted by grunt
          In Boston we have early intervention. My 8 yr old and my 3 yr old have language delay issues. In most cases with speech therapy and other supports children will improve their language skills. We started early intervention with my son around 3 but with my daughter she was just over a year old. My 8 year old speech improved and he is on grade level with his reading skills and my 3 yr old is borderline with her language development.

          The biting issue may just be an issue of your son being frustrated. When a child is struggling with his language sometime they act out. I would continue to reinforce that biting isn't acceptable and he should try his best to tell his teachers. You should also communicate with his teachers that your son may be acting out of frustration and if they can give him more support during play time.

          There are some good books out there for parents dealing with language delay.
          Thanks grunt. We have begun early intervention too. We've visisted a lot of websites and my wife has done a ton of research. Know of any good books which you'd recommend?
          Originally posted by Edmund Burke
          All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

          Comment

          • grunt
            Banned
            • Jul 2002
            • 9527

            #6
            Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

            It Take 2 to Talk

            http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Two-Talk...4365806&sr=8-1

            The New Language of Toys

            http://www.amazon.com/New-Language-T...4365861&sr=1-1

            Your local library could get these books for you.

            Comment

            • JBH3
              Marvel's Finest
              • Jan 2007
              • 13506

              #7
              Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

              Originally posted by grunt
              It Take 2 to Talk

              http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Two-Talk...4365806&sr=8-1

              The New Language of Toys

              http://www.amazon.com/New-Language-T...4365861&sr=1-1

              Your local library could get these books for you.
              Grunt - THANKS! Those books look great.
              Originally posted by Edmund Burke
              All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

              Comment

              • stlstudios189
                MVP
                • Jan 2009
                • 2649

                #8
                Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

                My daughter is a late talker as well and gets very frustrated she doesn't bite but she throws things etc... I have been working on things like what ever she throws I take away. Good luck
                Gaming hard since 1988

                I have won like 25 Super Bowls in Madden so I am kinda a big deal.

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                • foolish813
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 294

                  #9
                  Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

                  My oldest son has Cerebral Palsey so the 1st thing I would tell you to do is to make sure there is not a deeper issue. I'm pretty sure you've done that so, in that case I think you're doing well. My neice was having that same problem. It turned out to be an extra bit of flesh beneath her tongue. It has been removed, and she is talking alot more. her speech isn't clear yet but she has confidence that she can get the words going. Keep the therapist coming. I hope that soon you will be saying, "Does this kid ever shut up?"
                  Yeah, and you're bossin' on the Dad job. Set examples.

                  Comment

                  • JBH3
                    Marvel's Finest
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 13506

                    #10
                    Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

                    Originally posted by stlstudios189
                    My daughter is a late talker as well and gets very frustrated she doesn't bite but she throws things etc... I have been working on things like what ever she throws I take away. Good luck
                    That's a good way of disciplining her not to throw things. Keep it up.

                    Originally posted by foolish813
                    My oldest son has Cerebral Palsey so the 1st thing I would tell you to do is to make sure there is not a deeper issue. I'm pretty sure you've done that so, in that case I think you're doing well. My neice was having that same problem. It turned out to be an extra bit of flesh beneath her tongue. It has been removed, and she is talking alot more. her speech isn't clear yet but she has confidence that she can get the words going. Keep the therapist coming. I hope that soon you will be saying, "Does this kid ever shut up?"
                    Yeah, and you're bossin' on the Dad job. Set examples.
                    Yea...A lady I work with said one of her sons was tongue tied (like you mention w/ your niece), and had to have a piece of flesh cut out too.

                    I hope I'll be saying that soon too (bolded) .

                    Thank you both for your advice/support.

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    Found these two things interesting:

                    (1) The speech therapist we secured through the county visited Johnny at daycare yesterday. Her and her assistant were there for over 2 hours, and said they had a great visit. Actually gave our daycare a vote of confidence, and told us that we are not in any danger of being kicked out and the center wants to work with us; I think it's because the center realizes that they are not doing everything they could be doing.

                    While the therapist was observing she noticed at one point Johnny quietly playing by himself, building a tower w/ blocks. As he puts the final block on the top and claps for himself, a girl in his class comes along and starts to slowly remove the top block. The therapist said Johnny vocalized his anger, but it didn't make any sense since he was not saying actual words. The girl removing the block ended up knocking his tower down, and then he started kicking blocks and taking out his frustration on them. That's when the daycare teachers said Johnny we don't kick blocks, but they didn't see the circumstances leading up to that. That's when the therapist let them know why he kicked the blocks.

                    That would've been a biting incident, and because the teachers didn't see what happened they would end up telling us that Johnny "just walked right up to her and bit her".

                    (2) The same issue w/ the blocks happened this morning when I was dropping him off, except it was w/ a toy horse and not blocks. I brought Johnny in, washed his hands, and signed him in. During signing him in he went to go start playing while other kids ate breakfast since we give Johnny breakfast at home. Once I signed him in he brought the horse over to me, and we made horsey sounds and then he went back over to play. I had to fill in one other thing on the sign-in/out sheet and once I did I looked up and said bye to Johnny. At this point he was upset because another boy had taken the horse he was playing with. I asked him "Did he take your horse Johnny", and he shook his head up and down. I asked the boy, "Can you give the horse back to Johnny", and he did, but the two ladies in the class saw none of this.

                    One was helping a boy get a fork out of trashcan that he had dropped in there, and the other was watching over 3 or 4 kids still eating breakfast.

                    However, had Johnny bitten the boy who took his horse, since that boy can talk he would've told the teacher Johnny bit him, and then they would've put on Johnny's incident report "A child was playing w/ a toy, and Johnny wanted the toy and bit him"...

                    They would like to have me think my son is a vampire or something. Sure, the action is inappropriate, but the result of the action is not enough supervision in the classroom.
                    Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                    All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                    Comment

                    • KG
                      Welcome Back
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 17583

                      #11
                      Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

                      Just curious, what's the staff-to-child ratio there? What's the ideal ratio a parent should look for in a daycare?

                      It seems like your son is most likely biting as a result of some action from another kid (like you have mentioned) but I don't think it's possible for them (the staff) to catch every preceding incident.

                      Best of luck though, seems like grunt gave some good advice.
                      Twitter Instagram - kgx2thez

                      Comment

                      • JBH3
                        Marvel's Finest
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 13506

                        #12
                        Re: Calling All OS Fathers....Did/Do you have a biter?

                        Originally posted by kgx2thez
                        Just curious, what's the staff-to-child ratio there? What's the ideal ratio a parent should look for in a daycare?

                        It seems like your son is most likely biting as a result of some action from another kid (like you have mentioned) but I don't think it's possible for them (the staff) to catch every preceding incident.

                        Best of luck though, seems like grunt gave some good advice.
                        Ratio is 1:4. By today's standards 1:4 is pretty good. I believe Minnieland was like 1:5.

                        As for catching the incident, I don't expect a teacher to shadow Johnny all day, but such as today's incident you had 2 to 3 kids that were done eating breakfast and were allowed to go play and who really had no oversight of what they were doing other than the teacher being w/in earshot of them.

                        You had one teacher helping a child get a fork out of the trash can, and another one who at that time had her back turned to the 3 boys (including my son) playing w/ toys.

                        I guess I'm thinking that all kids in the room should be being "watched" at the same time, does it mean the teacher gets to Johnny before he bites a kid and stops it from happening? Not neccessarily.

                        However, it does mean that they should have a better understanding as to why the biting occurred. Because they're just making it seem like my son has an insatiable hunger to bite people; which he doesn't. They're not seeing the reasons/circumstances leading up to the biting.

                        If they saw that the boy took the toy, then they could remediate the importance of sharing w/ him, if they saw the girl knocking down my son's tower they could've told her not to disrupt someone like she did (in a 2/3 yr old way).

                        See what I mean?
                        Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                        All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                        Comment

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