OS Book Club Pt II

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

I'm probably going to reread Harry Potter and go through LOTR for the first time next year. And just as I want to add in more series, I realize that's already 10 books to slot in. I'll probably start the Kingkiller Chronicle and maybe the Expanse as well.

And some SW Extended Universe stuff.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Between Little Fires Everywhere and Sing Unburied Sing - which one would you recommend reading first?

I haven't really thought about what I want to read next year other than catching the ones that slipped through the cracks this year (Two Towers, Return of the King, and IT being the most notable ones).

I'm trying to clear my plate by Christmas Eve since we started the jolabokaflod tradition last year.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Sing Unburied Sing is more somber. Little Fires gets there but it's more upbeat. It also deals a lot with teenagers so it's got more of that feel to it as opposed to SUS which feels very adult even when told through the eyes of a child (for good reason, given the story). If you want something more positive, Little Fires. It's also just a page turner, hard to put down. If you want something more gloomy and adult, SUS.

I definitely googled that word and almost understand what it means. I see it's some event in Iceland. What's the tradition part?

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

The way we did it last year was we exchanged a book each on Christmas Eve and spent the rest of the evening reading.

There is a broad scope of traditions associated with the term. Some give books leading up to Christmas while others do what we did. The actual term and it's history was very interesting to read about, too.

[KSUowls]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Last book I finished was the 2nd book of the Lotus Wars trilogy by Jay Kristoff a few months ago. Kind of a cool steam-punk adventure story. I've had a hard time finding motivation to read the last one though

Spoiler

because of how the 2nd book ended.

I've been trying to find something where the protagonist has a backstory similar to what is in the video game Tom Clancy's The Division. Basically some kind of identity he keeps hidden in his every day life until he gets "activated" and shows off his skills. No such luck yet.

I'm debating between finishing the Lotus War trilogy or starting the Shannara Chronicles as my next read.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Have you read any of the Bourne books? The backstory isn't quite the same, but his history is certainly hidden and he's "activated" regularly.

The books differentiate enough from the movies where nothing major would be spoiled by having watched them.

[KSUowls]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Have you read any of the Bourne books? The backstory isn't quite the same, but his history is certainly hidden and he's "activated" regularly.

The books differentiate enough from the movies where nothing major would be spoiled by having watched them.

I've heard that about the Bourne series, but for some reason I never think about them. Does it show regular interaction in his "normal life" or does kind of just show that at the beginning and then he's off on a book long mission? I liked how the Bourne movies were heavy on action, but still showed enough of him just trying to live a normal life.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

The loss of memory is still a major device in the books, but that's one of the few similarities the books and movies share. The first book he's basically trying to discover who he is and everything associated with that, but the others pick up on him leading a "normal" life at times.

[War Eagle!]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Currently Audibling Black Privilege by Charlamagne the god. Surprisingly good book, even better with his narration. His story is authentic, not the cliche I quit my job and pursued what I love pie in the sky bull**** many books of similar subjects mass produce and copy.

The book is about the process of becoming what you are to be. Charlamagne relays tales of his lessons which others may call losses. His mentality towards the obstacles he faced is what captured me. I've had a couple lessons myself but it hasn't been until the last year or so that I saw them as lessons.

Check it out sometime. I definitely recommend the Audible version. I'll probably pick up the text later for quotes and different bookmarks as well.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
This book is conflicting so much to me. The meaningless, high-school sweetheart games that run throughout irked me continuously. Yet, the storyline with Dumbledore and the last act of the book really powered through and resulted in some of the best moments from the series thus far.

I've never been a fan of pairing off friends into romantic situations (Friends comes to my mind as the prime offender of this), but I can generally accept things so long as they are well developed. Ron's character has remained his usual, useless self. Seeing Hermione reduced to the typical, squealing and sobbing girl felt like a stretch to me as she has shown advance maturation throughout the series. The pairing of Harry and Ginny is less obtrusive, but it's buildup is baffling and a little awkward to read describing Harry's infatuation (and lust) as a dormant monster/beast inside him. Perhaps it's my distance from adolescence, but then again I can only imagine these parts being even more awkward as an awkward teen. It's even more questioning when one of the common room passwords used in the book was "abstinence." This is one area where I felt the movies did a significantly better job of developing.

Outside of those relationships the overall narrative was compelling and the climax was thrilling and tense. The resolution was handled with care and allows the reader to reflect (or break down completely) on the series and it's characters.

I'm not sure where I would rank this in the series as the worst parts of the book are the worst parts of the series to me, but the climax and resolution are among the strongest parts of the series. If anything the book is fairly uneven, but I continue to find myself amazed at how much the series has matured with each book. Between the writing and the themes the growing maturation of the series is truly something a person can grow up with.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

I had been considering reading Charlemagne's book for a while. I'm getting it for a friend for Christmas, just couldn't get around to it myself. I don't know what to make of it. I really dislike the "I'm just telling it like it is" crowd that uses that to excuse being *******s, so his personality is beyond grating to me. Even still, I'm sure he's got some interesting insight into the industry. I guess Wendy Williams has books out so I shouldn't be too surprised he does.

So I just finished Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee Brown . I mean, what's there to say?

It's essentially a textbook, but doesn't read like one. It, to me at least, was much less dry and surprisingly interesting than I expected. Obviously there are a tons of names and dates that can easily be mixed up and forgotten, but the big picture is hard to miss. The reason the details are often hard to pin down is the stories are so similar.

Spoiler

"Hey, that's some nice land you got over there. Wanna let us mine it?" - American

"The land isn't ours. It's everyone's so we can't decide who gets to go where. Just try to keep in mind that we all need to use this land." - Native

"No worries. We're just gonna destroy the trees, build a bunch of stuff to run off all the animals you guys need to survive, and then start building houses so that we can move in. Just sign this paper with all these crazy characters on it because you don't speak the language and trust me. " - American

I think the systematic nature of it all is almost shocking but then less so over time. What struck me is the time period, between 1860 and 1890. At the same time, America was enslaving black people, exterminating the Indians, and fighting themselves.

I did gain somewhat of an appreciation for Native American culture. We learn about them (at least the Powhatans and the Virginia Natives) in school but it's in somewhat of a mythological state so it's hard to grasp. There are a lot of firsthand quotes both from the natives and the settlers that show the contemporary feelings at the time, which I thought was useful. Shows the true opinions of Americans toward the Indians, and the number of ways propaganda was used to paint the picture of them as a whole.

The thing it brought me to was when I was reading Blood Meridian, I think I said something like I didn't really understand why it would be considered a Great American Novel because it didn't portray America as I had known it, or how we generally portray ourselves. But having read this book, it's almost frightening to say that the moral depravity and callousness towards "others" was pretty well described. You could've taken a scene right out of BM that you thought was too graphic and found a parallel from a massacre that actually took place.

The stars of the book are obviously the Natives. Just a very interesting culture to come up against. The way they call everything Great (God is the Great Spirit, the president is The Great Father, and my favorite, General Sherman is Great Warrior Sherman), the true appreciation and reverence towards all the things that make up nature, the way they kinda resigned themselves to accepting things that were bigger than them. It's an interesting outlook. Felt similar to the Stoics, who I'll be reading more from next year (Seneca is one people have been throwing at me).

Spoiler

"So tractable, so peaceable, are these people that I swear to your Majestic there is not in the world a better nation. They love their neighbors as themselves, and their discourse is ever sweet and gentle, and accompanied with a smile; and though it is true that they are naked, yet their manners are decorous and praiseworthy." - Christopher Columbus

" I saw one squaw lying on the bank whose leg had been broken by a shell; a soldier came up to her with a drawn saber; she raised her arm to protect herself, when he struck, breaking her arm; she rolled over and raised her other arm when he struck it, breaking it, and then left her without killing her. There seemed to be indiscriminate slaughter of men, women, and children."

"Say to us if you can say it, that you were sent by the Creative Power to talk to us. Perhaps you think the Creator sent you to dispose of us as you see fit. If I thought you were sent by the Creator, u might be induced to think you had a right to dispose of me. Do not misunderstand me, but understand me fully with reference to my affection for the land. I never said the land was mind to do with it as I chose. The one who had the tight to dispose of it is the one who has created it. I claim a right to live in my aldn, and accord you the privilege to live on yours." - Chief Joseph of the Nez Perces

" I told the officer that this was a very bad business; that it was very bad for the commissioner to give such an order. I said it was very bad; that we ought not to fight, because we were brothers, and the officer said that that didn't make any difference; that Americans would fight even though they were born of the same mother." - Nicaagat of the White River Utes

" The agreement that an Indian makes to a United States treaty is like the agreement a Buffalo makes with his hunters when pierced with arrows. All he can do is lie down and give in." - Chief Ouray of the Utes

" In whatever capacity you may be here today, if you decide to say anything to us we will listen to you; otherwise, we will dismiss this council.'' Yes, that is all right,' Sitting Bull said,' You have conducted yourselves like men who have been drinking whiskey, and I came here to give you some advice.' He made a sweeping motion with his hand, and every Indian in the council arose and followed him out." SITTING BULL THE ORIGINAL MALCOM X

"We had begged for life, and the white men thought we wanted theirs." Red Cloud of the Oglala Sioux, I thought that one was especially profound

"I did not know then how much was ended. When I look now from this high hill of my old age, I can still see the butchered women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young. And I see that something else died there in the bloody mud, and was buried in the blizzard. A people's dream died there. It was a beautiful dream... The nation's heap is broken and scattered. There is no center any longer, and the sacred tree is dead." - Black Elk

I especially appreciate the glimpses into Native American culture and their ideology, made me want to see how it's survived into the present day so I've added Navajos Wear Nikes a Reservation Life to my list among others. Next up is Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, about a Korean family that moves to Japan. From one very different culture from my own to another.

Edit: My mind came back to Rushmore. I knew it's in South Dakota. I just read the Black Hills are sacred to the Natives. Was basically crossing my fingers and whispering dontbeintheblackhills dontbeintheblackhills dontbeintheblackhills while I went to Wikipedia. Yup. In the Black Hills.

Also found out there's a book called "The Sixth Grandfather" which is the transcripts of conversations he had with an author (who wrote another book called Black Elk Speaks that is apparently very distorted). That should be a very interesting read.

[KSUowls]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
This book is conflicting so much to me. The meaningless, high-school sweetheart games that run throughout irked me continuously. Yet, the storyline with Dumbledore and the last act of the book really powered through and resulted in some of the best moments from the series thus far.

I've never been a fan of pairing off friends into romantic situations (Friends comes to my mind as the prime offender of this), but I can generally accept things so long as they are well developed. Ron's character has remained his usual, useless self. Seeing Hermione reduced to the typical, squealing and sobbing girl felt like a stretch to me as she has shown advance maturation throughout the series. The pairing of Harry and Ginny is less obtrusive, but it's buildup is baffling and a little awkward to read describing Harry's infatuation (and lust) as a dormant monster/beast inside him. Perhaps it's my distance from adolescence, but then again I can only imagine these parts being even more awkward as an awkward teen. It's even more questioning when one of the common room passwords used in the book was "abstinence." This is one area where I felt the movies did a significantly better job of developing.

Outside of those relationships the overall narrative was compelling and the climax was thrilling and tense. The resolution was handled with care and allows the reader to reflect (or break down completely) on the series and it's characters.

I'm not sure where I would rank this in the series as the worst parts of the book are the worst parts of the series to me, but the climax and resolution are among the strongest parts of the series. If anything the book is fairly uneven, but I continue to find myself amazed at how much the series has matured with each book. Between the writing and the themes the growing maturation of the series is truly something a person can grow up with.

I was either a high school senior or recently graduated when this book came out, and I shared your very sentiments.

The romantic pairings just didn't make any sense. Hermione and Ron was kind of foreshadowed in prior books, but it never made sense to me. She was smart, ambitious, and she was the most loyal friend. Ron was lazy, useless, and jumped ship multiple times throughout the saga.

Then there was Harry and Ginny which made any less sense. Ginny has like 6 spoken sentences in the entire series before Harry pounces on her in the common room in HBP (and only a few more sentences devoted to even mentioning her in the series). Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that he has the sudden and uncontrollable lust/love for her? If that weren't enough then how about Ginny's infatuation of him originally being born out of his childhood fame? Surely that would have been enough to turn Harry off from her.

For that matter I think J.K. Rowling did a terrible job with Harry's surrogate family in general, but that's another story.

Outside of the "romance" though, I thought HBP was an excellent addition to the series. I think it shares or even nudges out Order of the Phoenix in terms of best climax in the series.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

The romantic pairings just didn't make any sense. Hermione and Ron was kind of foreshadowed in prior books, but it never made sense to me. She was smart, ambitious, and she was the most loyal friend. Ron was lazy, useless, and jumped ship multiple times throughout the saga.

Then there was Harry and Ginny which made any less sense. Ginny has like 6 spoken sentences in the entire series before Harry pounces on her in the common room in HBP (and only a few more sentences devoted to even mentioning her in the series). Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that he has the sudden and uncontrollable lust/love for her? If that weren't enough then how about Ginny's infatuation of him originally being born out of his childhood fame? Surely that would have been enough to turn Harry off from her.

Honestly, I can deal with the logic behind the pairings. I can see how two friends could grow into romantic partners over the years - especially if they're young kids maturing through adolescence. My biggest gripe is the actual execution and development of it. The bickering and fighting that goes in for 2-3 books is supposed to line the fact that they both love each other? It seems like such a childish and out-of-touch approach in a book series that generally gives the children characters the benefit of maturity and intellect above most of the adult characters.

With that said the development is done very well in The Deathly Hallows between Ron and Hermione. It feels much more organic and true to both of their characters.

Ginny and Harry is a little odd to me given that Harry is practically an adopted family member, but her infatuation with Harry has been seeded throughout. Again my main sticking point is the metaphor of describing his own infatuation and lust with her as a lurking beast inside him. It feels too hunter/preyish to me especially when the character in question is a younger friend and sister of his best friend.

For that matter I think J.K. Rowling did a terrible job with Harry's surrogate family in general, but that's another story.

In what way? I thought Mr. and especially Mrs. Weasley were great surrogate parents to Harry. The 17th birthday party/cake in The Deathly Hallows really got to me. Through all of Mrs. Weasley's anxiety and harping was a concerned and loving parent that included Harry in everything as if he was her own son.

[KSUowls]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

In what way? I thought Mr. and especially Mrs. Weasley were great surrogate parents to Harry. The 17th birthday party/cake in The Deathly Hallows really got to me. Through all of Mrs. Weasley's anxiety and harping was a concerned and loving parent that included Harry in everything as if he was her own son.

I think the twins, the dad, and the 2 eldest brothers who we see were all fine for the most part. Though Charlie and Billaren't really in it enough to make a fair judgement. Arthur doesn't really play a big part, and his treatment of all the characters make more sense.

Ron - After Umbridge was probably my most hated character in the books. It never seemed very real how Harry stayed such a close friend with him, or that Ron was his "most precious person" as we see in GoF. Ron is simply a terrible friend from the 4th book on (with doses of his lack of character in the first 3 books). Petty, fickle, lazy, average talent, no self confidence, and a passive aggressive bully are all appropriate adjectives for him yet somehow he's part of the golden trio. And yes Fred and George were a kind of "bully"
as well, but it fit their character & actions.

Ginny - Is just such an underdeveloped "major" character. She is Harry's eventual love interest and is virtually non existent through the first 5 1/2 books, and then is mentioned like 2 more between their lust scene and before the epilogue. The story is about the main trio of friends, but it just seemed odd that even the outcast brother Percy has more "scenes" in a 7 book saga than Harry's romantic interest. Further, her character was just never given any depth. The first few times we meet her she's a shy fan girl, then she becomes the indifferent sister of the best friend until finally she's pressing bodies against Harry lol.

Molly - She was just such an odd choice for a surrogate mother. Outside of showering Harry with love, what did she really do to justify her role in the story? Even factoring in the "off camera" scenes we don't see in the books Harry would have had no more than a few weeks worth of interaction with her over the course of 7 years. Other than their initial meeting at the train station in the first book, nothing about her relationship with Harry is really believable. The only real connections she has with Harry are that he is the best friend of one of her kids, and he is the son of long since deceased family friends. He should be a total stranger to her at least through the first few books (and not beyond that in later books given their potential interactions), which makes her opening up her house to him in the summer from book 2 and on all the more curious. It just makes her character feel very forced.

Percy - While I disliked his persona, I could at least get behind his character being the ambitious type wanting a career for himself. The inconsistency of his character bothered me though. He achieves status as prefect, then Heady Boy, and later becomes an assistant to the Minister of Magic. Clearly he has some ability if he's able to achieve all of that. He's also clearly very driven to make a name for himself. So, I could understand if he just turned his back on everything in order to advance that career. I could also understand if he turned his back on his career to support his family. He didn't do either though, and the cleverness that he would almost certainly have needed to achieve all that he did in his young life is completely contradicted in the later books. He's easily manipulated multiple times by newspaper articles into thinking that Harry is an albatross that his family needs to stay away from...even though we're led to believe that Harry is supposed to be part of the Weasley family he loves so much. His character is just full of contradictions that don't make him compelling or deep, they make him illogical.

Honestly, I can deal with the logic behind the pairings. I can see how two friends could grow into romantic partners over the years - especially if they're young kids maturing through adolescence. My biggest gripe is the actual execution and development of it. The bickering and fighting that goes in for 2-3 books is supposed to line the fact that they both love each other? It seems like such a childish and out-of-touch approach in a book series that generally gives the children characters the benefit of maturity and intellect above most of the adult characters.

Yeah I agree. I definitely think that Ron/Hermione just didn't make sense from everything that was built up on those individual characters (in hindsight Ms. Rowling admitted that it probably wasn't the best pair), but I also took issue with what we were supposed to believe was them flirting/developing that relationship. Back and forth bickering was a way of flirting for pre-teens who should be in elementary school, not supposedly mature for their age teenagers.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Ron - After Umbridge was probably my most hated character in the books. It never seemed very real how Harry stayed such a close friend with him, or that Ron was his "most precious person" as we see in GoF. Ron is simply a terrible friend from the 4th book on (with doses of his lack of character in the first 3 books). Petty, fickle, lazy, average talent, no self confidence, and a passive aggressive bully are all appropriate adjectives for him yet somehow he's part of the golden trio. And yes Fred and George were a kind of "bully"
as well, but it fit their character & actions.

Ginny - Is just such an underdeveloped "major" character. She is Harry's eventual love interest and is virtually non existent through the first 5 1/2 books, and then is mentioned like 2 more between their lust scene and before the epilogue. The story is about the main trio of friends, but it just seemed odd that even the outcast brother Percy has more "scenes" in a 7 book saga than Harry's romantic interest. Further, her character was just never given any depth. The first few times we meet her she's a shy fan girl, then she becomes the indifferent sister of the best friend until finally she's pressing bodies against Harry lol.

Molly - She was just such an odd choice for a surrogate mother. Outside of showering Harry with love, what did she really do to justify her role in the story? Even factoring in the "off camera" scenes we don't see in the books Harry would have had no more than a few weeks worth of interaction with her over the course of 7 years. Other than their initial meeting at the train station in the first book, nothing about her relationship with Harry is really believable. The only real connections she has with Harry are that he is the best friend of one of her kids, and he is the son of long since deceased family friends. He should be a total stranger to her at least through the first few books (and not beyond that in later books given their potential interactions), which makes her opening up her house to him in the summer from book 2 and on all the more curious. It just makes her character feel very forced.

Percy - While I disliked his persona, I could at least get behind his character being the ambitious type wanting a career for himself. The inconsistency of his character bothered me though. He achieves status as prefect, then Heady Boy, and later becomes an assistant to the Minister of Magic. Clearly he has some ability if he's able to achieve all of that. He's also clearly very driven to make a name for himself. So, I could understand if he just turned his back on everything in order to advance that career. I could also understand if he turned his back on his career to support his family. He didn't do either though, and the cleverness that he would almost certainly have needed to achieve all that he did in his young life is completely contradicted in the later books. He's easily manipulated multiple times by newspaper articles into thinking that Harry is an albatross that his family needs to stay away from...even though we're led to believe that Harry is supposed to be part of the Weasley family he loves so much. His character is just full of contradictions that don't make him compelling or deep, they make him illogical.

Ron is easily the character I am most conflicted on. He's easily the most agitating, but I never had anything more negative than that. He's annoying for sure, but there are far more characters to hate behind Umbridge than Ron. Throughout much of the series he is useless and lazy to the group. All friendships are funny to me in the sense than any outsider looking at the relationship from a logical standpoint will be lost. Why are these people friends? Who knows. Ron and Harry fit that somewhat, but Ron's loyalty to Harry is generally unwavering throughout the series. There are moments of jealousy that are understandable, but I never felt like Ron's loyalty or friendship with Harry was lacking or without merit.

Ginny Weasley is a tertiary character for sure, but there's enough tidbits throughout to put together a solid picture of her character. She's strong, independent, somewhat bullheaded, and (a running trait amongst the Weasleys) dependably loyal. Her turn in Chamber of Secrets puts her in the spotlight somewhat, but she's more a conduit and plot device than anything else. Still, there was an established connection to Harry early on and reinforced via Chamber of Secrets that the pairing doesn't seem so far out of left field.

I feel like Molly is the typical "best friend's mom" in that she sees Harry as an extension of Ron early on. Plus, Harry is a special case anyway so taking him under her wing would be the decent thing to do for any good parent. I disagree about the amount of time they spend together as Harry spends Summers and Holidays with the Weasley group so I feel there's more than enough opportunity to build a parental relationship. She never crosses into true maternal territory, but I think that's for the benefit of Harry than a mark against Molly. It's clear by the end of the series that Harry is basically an adopted son of hers and the build up to it is handled exceptionally well. To me it's one of the better developed relationships that doesn't hinge on extraordinary circumstances and events, but progresses organically into a realistic relationship.

Percy is obviously not a character I cared for, but I think he remained true to his personality throughout. Sure, he was a prefect, head boy, and achieved great status wherever he was, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him intellectually smart or clever. He put forth the necessary skill to reach top positions, but he let his ambition cloud his judgement throughout the series. His ambition led his bias and eventually his turn against his family as he sided with what he thought was the ultimate level in his world - the Ministry. His turn away from the Weasleys not only represents his ambition and biased for "official" authority, but it also represented the division that Voldemort caused throughout the books. One of several key divisions that pop up from seemingly friendly sides.