OS Book Club Pt II

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Finished The Fire Next Time, my first Baldwin book. The first letter, Letter to my Nephew, is where Ta-nehisi Coates got the inspiration from BTWAM and it shows. The letter here is much shorter, only 9 Kindle pages and then there's another dealing with religion.

The Letter to His Nephew hit me in the same way BTWAM did, it's just sad that it had to be written at all man. I'll say this though, what interested me was that Baldwin, writing in the 60s, was more optimistic in the tackling of the problem than Coates is today, whatever that says about how things have gone.

"And if the word integration means anything, this is what it means: that we, with love, shall force our brothers to see themselves as they are, to cease fleeing from reality and begin to change it. For this is your home, my friend, do not be driven from it; great men have done great things here, and will again, and we can make America what America must become."

I guess after 30 years, Coates has given up on people being woken up.

In the second letter, he speaks on how his religion and feelings on religion affected him coming up and how he sees it. He said some things that jumped out at me because they are as relevant and true today as they were the day he wrote them. I liked this one a lot as well.

Not sure what's up next, I'm deciding between Dreams from My Father (Obama), Autobiography of Malcolm X (Him and Haley), Notes of a Native Son (Baldwin again) or Black Boy or Native Son by Richard Wright. I'm trying to maintain some kind of continuity, Baldwin specifically spoke of Malcolm X in The Fire but he also said Wright was the best in the world so I might end up there.

[Money99]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Off-topic, but I love that song.

Me too!
I have Luke Cage to thank for showing me that song. Love it.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Cleared Between the World and Me top to bottom today, incredible. The way it's written, with the letters to his son, struck me because it's something I think about as I get older, what I would tell my kid if I had one and what I'd want him to think about the world. I imagine it was hard for him to write. Obviously can't get into some stuff but much respect to him for putting this out. Damn near made me cry at times.

I saw on Wikipedia he took inspiration from The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin, and he's on my list of authors I wanted to read so that's my next stop. He also mentioned a book he thought really highly of called Destruction of Black Civilization, but there's no Kindle edition so I'll have to pick that up and get it later. I haven't read a paper book in quite a while lol.

There's a wall of text beneath in response to you and this book of truth. I didn't want to stop the flow of the thread or derail us into a discussion that is ultimately without end and could delve headlong into the TOS.

Spoiler

I finished the last two letters yesterday. I put off it during the week because a part of me wanted to allow it more focus that a Sunday provides and another part felt anxiety over what the remaining pages would say.

Like the first letter he doesn't say anything too shocking that anyone with any awareness of our nationalism shouldn't already have thought in their subconscious. It is still terrifying to read and comprehend. I can't imagine being raised in that environment much less having generations both past and future to go through the same environment. Dreamers is an apt title he gives to those who are oblivious and chose to remain so.

These letters come from a completely different world than mine and I am not naive enough to think my world is The One World that exists in America, but there are millions that think so. There are those in control of policies, institutions, and oversee our democratic system who think that and adhere to their One World thought process. Policies are shaped. Injustices are ingrained. It becomes normal. The normal becomes oblivion and ignored.

This book is an awakening, but it doesn't necessarily create - rather - it shouldn't create any new thoughts about our Great Country. Its a confirmation and for some that's a test of faith that they will always run away from because it will break a lot of Dreamers. These letters are short and can be read in a span of hours, but the thoughts and emotions it brings up from the roots can supply the reader for years. I know it kept sparking thoughts in my head. Thoughts about an experience that seems worlds away, but is in reality only feet away from me at any given time. A world that most of my peers only lay their eyes on when dispatches are played on a loop on CNN or when they watch the Big Ball Game.

I live in Virginia. We're below the Mason-Dixon line, but far enough North that "racial tension" is not something I have felt in my lifetime living here. It is something I've seen on dispatches on news from other Southern, Deep South states such as Mississippi, Alabama, or Georgia. Locally we have a major US Highway and high-school named after Robert E. Lee. Our landmark, historical hotel is named for Stonewall Jackson. Within the past year we've named a bridge for Martin Luther King Jr. My city of residence was once legally segregated as recent as the 1960s and that segregation is still clear today. I've never once felt powerless. I've never felt unrepresented. I've never legitimately felt unsafe outside of my home.

I come from an area that is largely white. The majority of my peers are Dreamers. They're white, Christian, and oblivious. They feel unrepresented. They feel powerless. I cannot answer why. We've held the reigns since 1776 and even before then when our Ancestors across the Atlantic held them. A lot of them buy Confederate Flags and drag them flapping in the air behind trucks or plastered across their chest on trademarked shirts. They uphold the deities of Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson. They say they celebrate, "heritage, not hate." None of them grasp the magnitude of their words. None of them even begin to imagine the amounts of blood spilled, bodies cut down, lives lost, families torn apart on the very ground we walk on, go to school on, and go to work on.

Their ignorance is lost on me, however. Ignorance is no pass. Shrugging shoulders and saying, "it was the times" is as much an endorsement on those actions as not. You cannot celebrate the actions of a man while in the same breath not accept the demon work he did in conjunction of those actions. Celebrate a failed uprising and treasonous government all you want, but do so knowing that they were fighting to keep a people down. Breaking bodies and families. Dumping and defiling people underneath their heels.

How do you wake these people up? The events of this past weekend is no surprise here. Its heartening to see the outreach of support and see the system "work," but The Man was only doing what he said he would do to on the Election Trail. And he did it. We empowered him to do that. It was great to see him pushed back while Dreamers yelled about National Security, Protection, and Taking Care of Ours. How do you wake them up and realize that we can't even protect our own citizens from each other so why does it matter who comes and goes? How do you wake them up to the realization that Stop N Frisk isn't just a measure for Ghettos and That Side of the City, but is something that can be used against all of us whenever the time comes for part of the Dreamers to be cast down off the Mountain into the Valley?

At the end of these letters I felt sadness for Prince Jones, for Coates, for his son, for our country. I also felt powerless. It is a tone that resonates by the end of his letters, but I felt it well up in me at the end. Powerless to shake those around me awake. Powerless to prevent the system from doing what it was designed for. Powerless to help. Powerless to prevent myself from taking part in all of it whether as a bystander or an oblivion that I've chosen to dive into. Powerless to enact real change. Powerless to keep it from happening to more people.

*deep breath*

Now I'm moving onto Year 3 of Harry Potter land and have nothing really on the horizon past the series.

I'm trying to decide if I want to pick up the Malcolm autobiography or move into general history and go through Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Book Got Wrong.

I'm not sure what works of fiction you enjoy, but there's a book I read last year that could be shoe-horned into our recent readings and conversations.
https://www.amazon.com/Lovecraft-Cou.../dp/0062292064

Chicago, 1954. When his father Montrose goes missing, 22-year-old Army veteran Atticus Turner embarks on a road trip to New England to find him, accompanied by his Uncle George—publisher of The Safe Negro Travel Guide—and his childhood friend Letitia. On their journey to the manor of Mr. Braithwhite—heir to the estate that owned one of Atticus’s ancestors—they encounter both mundane terrors of white America and malevolent spirits that seem straight out of the weird tales George devours.

I most likely brought this up when I read it last year, but it is a great read. An interesting take on that era that is filled with cosmic and super natural elements.

The author has another book with a premise that sounds interesting to me and I want to read sooner rather than later:

11/9/2001: Christian fundamentalists hijackfour jetliners. They fly two into theTigris & Euphrates World Trade Towersin Baghdad, and a third into the ArabDefense Ministry in Riyadh. The fourthplane, believed to be bound for Mecca, isbrought down by its passengers. The UnitedArab States declares a War on Terror. Arabianand Persian troops invade the EasternSeaboard and establish a Green Zone inWashington, D.C. . . .

Summer, 2009: Arab Homeland Securityagent Mustafa al Baghdadi interrogatesa captured suicide bomber. The prisonerclaims that the world they are living in isa mirage—in the real world, America is asuperpower, and the Arab states are just acollection of "backward third-world countries."Other captured terrorists have beentelling the same story.

The gangster Saddam Hussein is conductinghis own investigation. And the headof the Senate Intelligence Committee—awar hero named Osama bin Laden—willstop at nothing to hide the truth. As Mustafaand his colleagues venture deeper into theunsettling world of terrorism, politics, andespionage, they are confronted with questionswithout any rational answers, andthe terrifying possibility that their world isnot what it seems.

Sounds interesting with a little bit of Philip K. Dick's Man in High Castle for good measure.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Spoiler

The best and worst part of reading the stuff that I have is it gives both a sense of pride and a sense of powerlessness, it's interesting. I guess from the other side of the fence, it's nice that we have many of the same questions because I was left with them as well. Knowing what we know, what do you do? I guess start with bringing to light these things to people around but that kind of goes back to the original issue. How do you explain what something looks like to a blind person? It mostly comes down to the people around you being open minded, outside of that unfortunately we've developed a great ability as a society to ignore reality and focus elsewhere, so it's hard to say.

Back on the book front, I've decided on Dreams from My Father up next before Malcolm's autobiography. I've been thinking for a while about reading some fiction just to get out of the singular mood all of the reading I'm doing now is putting me in lol, I'm adding your suggestion to my list. I'll pivot over to Toni Morrison and Ralph Ellison afterwards.

It's funny because 5 years ago you couldn't have paid me enough to read, now I'm stressed over having too many books and too little time. What a life! Even with your reading HP, it kind of makes me want to jump back in. I was 13 when the series ended and it was the biggest thing ever at the time, it'd be interesting to go back and read it with a different mind, see what I end up taking from it.

Sike, Malcolm on deck. Reading too much about him, need more.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Is The Fire Next Time the place to start for James Baldwin? I'm getting a little overwhelmed searching on Amazon.

There is also a new documentary releasing soon narrated by Samuel L. Jackson about James Baldwin and his connections with MLK, Medgar Evers, and Malcolm X.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

THE place to start I'm not sure, from what I was reading it seemed like the first thing that really blew him up was Notes of a Native Son. I got that, I just started with The Fire Next Time because The Letter to My Nephew was in it, that letter is short though. I'm pretty excited to see the documentary if only because of how amazingly timed it is for me lol. Once I saw it was nominated for Best Doc at the Oscars, it cemented it for me. I can't wait.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Its funny how the right things just fall into place at the right time. I was listening/watching some of Baldwin's stuff last night on YouTube.

I have never heard of him before this thread. I would say I'm surprised I never heard his name in any of my history classes, but that would be lying.

What strikes me is that he is so calm and eloquent, but you can feel the passion in everything he says. Its hard not to listen to him and just nod your head in agreement.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Its funny how the right things just fall into place at the right time. I was listening/watching some of Baldwin's stuff last night on YouTube.

I have never heard of him before this thread. I would say I'm surprised I never heard his name in any of my history classes, but that would be lying.

What strikes me is that he is so calm and eloquent, but you can feel the passion in everything he says. Its hard not to listen to him and just nod your head in agreement.

Dude on the first part 100% agreed, it's uncanny. My nana gave me a YouTube channel with a bunch of history stuff to look at and the first thing I saw was a Baldwin interview I've queued up to watch later. I'm basically the same as you, had never heard of the guy, now it seems like he's everywhere lol. I want to get into Notes, he really had such a unique perspective being a gay, black writer when none of those things were acceptable.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Dude on the first part 100% agreed, it's uncanny. My nana gave me a YouTube channel with a bunch of history stuff to look at and the first thing I saw was a Baldwin interview I've queued up to watch later. I'm basically the same as you, had never heard of the guy, now it seems like he's everywhere lol. I want to get into Notes, he really had such a unique perspective being a gay, black writer when none of those things were acceptable.

I found this last night, but haven't listened to it yet.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-JIp9_IIV3s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Finished the Autobiography of Malcolm X minus the Epilogue by Haley, now I find out a book came out a few years ago disputing much in it, I'll try to get to that eventually but not right now. Loved the quote "... I could spend the rest of my life reading, just satisfying my curiosity, because you can hardly mention anything I'm not curious about."

It was interesting to see his coming to terms with the problem with the Nation, after seeing how they had basically given him his rebirth and were the reason that he made anything out of himself in the first place. I admire his constant quest for knowledge, he seemed to be someone who just always wanted facts. He was fully behind everything he said, but would admit when proven wrong that he was so and tried to make a big change in his life, however unrecognized it may have been by some. Very interesting memoir, kinda like undisputed in the "ignorance to enlightenment" arc which I appreciate, I love being able to see someone look at them self and say "Man look at how much better I am than I was", it's nice to see people who don't glamorize their rocky/criminal past, or even those that do in the pursuit of proving that it just wasn't what they thought it would be. I saw the movie for the first time last Sunday, started the book Monday or Tuesday, and I'm gonna watch the movie again Sunday morning to book end. Then I'll get started on Dreams.

On that interview, Baldwin continues to make me want to further dive into his catalog. He seems to have an insane depth of knowledge and compassion that I really want to see more of.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Me too!
I have Luke Cage to thank for showing me that song. Love it.

Today he announced his album would be out 2/17.

Can't wait!

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

I let my brother borrow Between The World and Me while I brought home The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander yesterday.

I'll probably put it off a couple weeks, though. I want to plow through Harry Potter (pause) because **** is finally starting to get good, but I also want to read some other fiction. Plus, I don't read as much during the week with tax season hours kicking in.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Randomly ran across a NYT article about Frederick Douglass and found out 2 of his autobiographies are free on the Kindle Store. I read the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass today, I'll skip the other one and read his 3rd autobiography eventually. I knew who he was but had never read anything he had said or any of his speeches so I figured it'd be interesting. Of all the quotes I pulled out of it, one stood out just because it's basically the other side of the coin of the Malcolm quote I loved so much, speaks to the helplessness you talked about earlier:

"As I writhed under it, I would at times feel that learning to read had been a curse rather than a blessing. It had given me a view of my wretched condition, without the remedy. It opened my eyes to the horrible pit, but no ladder upon which to get out."

I'll definitely get on to Life and Times eventually, but for now, finally...Obama.

[War Eagle!]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Ahh, this week I managed to finish up Dreams from my father and Between the world and me. The disconnect between Obama and Coates gained clarity to me. Really hit home to me because I believe I am the bridge that closes that gap.

Growing up in Atlanta in the 90s I had a foot in both worlds. I resonate with them both because their independent difficulties ive encountered my entire life.

I'm not sure what's up next for me. I read Between the world and me in like 3 hours while it took me a month to read Dreams from my father. I thought I'd spend more time on Coates than 3 hours. Not sure if I am up to reading more Obama right off the bat though. An excellent writer for sure but his writing can be exhausting.

I've got some Edgar Allan Poe, maybe ill get into that.

fishin for wisdom

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: OS Book Club Pt II

Just finished Dreams from My Father and Eagle, your words may as well have been my own. It's amazing to see how differently he sees the world given the way he grew up vs. the way others did, it speaks to the disconnect between people from different walks of life. And it only took me a week to get through it just because I just read straight through, but there were a ton of times where I had to take a break and stop, like you said he's an excellent writer but excruciatingly detailed at times when you don't need him to be lol. The quote that hit home most with me was in the last chapter when he was getting the story from his Granny (who's really his great aunt I think) and she was explaining why the Luo women took the crap that they did for all those years:

"Much of what you say is true, Auma. Our women have carried a heavy load. If one is a fish, one does not try to fly - one swims with the other fish. One only konws what one knows. Perhaps if I were young today, I would not have accepted these things. Perhaps I would only care about my feelings, and falling in love. But that's not the world I was raised in. I only know what I have seen. What I have not seen doesn't make my heart heavy."

Really makes me want to sit down with some of the older members of my family and ask them how they feel about what they see today. Makes you appreciate growing up in a world where things socially are getting better, and makes me optimistic that my grandkids will look back on the world I grew up in and say "Man they were doing some inexplicable **** back then, I'm glad we're out of that."

Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson is up next.