Uncommon Opinions

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Ya'll are nuts. Between podcasts, my own mixes/playlists, and the ability to listen to practically any album I can think of paying $10 a month to listen to (on average) 32 hours a week. The return on investment is insane.

If you don't like popular music or another genre - then why bother with the nuances of it's history or modern acts? Why lament the "downfall" of a genre you admit to not liking or care anything about. Seems a little silly.

It'd be like me not venturing into jazz because "they don't make em like they use to, do they?"

[Blzer]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Ah, well I haven't really paid attention to that for a long time. Honestly couldn't care less what's on the charts. Our access to music isn't determined by that nearly as much as it was in the past.

That may be true, but this matters when my favorite bands are affected by it.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Why lament the "downfall" of a genre you admit to not liking or care anything about. Seems a little silly.

It'd be like me not venturing into jazz because "they don't make em like they use to, do they?"

Because it has infiltrated everything, its inescapable without becoming a recluse. It's not that they dont make it like they used to. It's the lack of uniqueness within genre that is staggering. Not sure what genre downfall you are referring to. Pop music now is filled with many "genres", but unfortunately feature copycat themes. It mostly relies on gimmicks and repetition to sell. There are many more artists than ever before, so why less variety in popular music, and why more icessant repetition than ever before?

Thats why most music today is pumped out very quickly, played into the ground until even the people who like it are sick of it, then falls into the depths of forgetfulness, only to be replaced by the next "hit", wash, rinse, repeat. Many popular artists are used and then disposed of. Much of the music (not all) is written and arranged by focus groups and teams of people rather than individuals.

But there is no escaping hearing it, they make sure of that.

[AUChase]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Ya'll are nuts. Between podcasts, my own mixes/playlists, and the ability to listen to practically any album I can think of paying $10 a month to listen to (on average) 32 hours a week. The return on investment is insane.

If you don't like popular music or another genre - then why bother with the nuances of it's history or modern acts? Why lament the "downfall" of a genre you admit to not liking or care anything about. Seems a little silly.

It'd be like me not venturing into jazz because "they don't make em like they use to, do they?"

I can build my own playlist on Amazon or my phone. The podcasts I listen to are all on TuneIn. I just try to limit the amount of subscription based services I'm signed up for. I just see it as a waste not to use Prime since I'm all ready paying $$ for that.

It has nothing to do with thinking it's not a good product (not that you said that).

The rest of this post doesn't apply to me.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Ya'll are nuts. Between podcasts, my own mixes/playlists, and the ability to listen to practically any album I can think of paying $10 a month to listen to (on average) 32 hours a week. The return on investment is insane.

If you don't like popular music or another genre - then why bother with the nuances of it's history or modern acts? Why lament the "downfall" of a genre you admit to not liking or care anything about. Seems a little silly.

It'd be like me not venturing into jazz because "they don't make em like they use to, do they?"

I don't feel right about this. I feel like i am disagreeing with Raphael. I can't do that. I feel like Casey Jones. I never wanted to be like Casey Jones.

[pietasterp]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Said it before and I'll say it again - there has never been a better time to be a music consumer. Spotify is the best $10 I spend every month. If you blanket statement that today's music sucks, that's a you problem, not a today's music problem.

I think we're having 2 different, parallel discussions here. I agree that in many (but not all) ways, there has never been a better time to be a music consumer. The amount of options and ease of access is staggering. That's a completely separate conversation to the state of music (artistically) currently. You may think it's good or bad or the same, but it's just a different argument than whether ease of access is better than it has been prior.

Ah, well I haven't really paid attention to that for a long time. Honestly couldn't care less what's on the charts. Our access to music isn't determined by that nearly as much as it was in the past.

Agreed, but what I do think is different is that everything now is predicated on figuring out what you already like, and then feeding you more of that. I'm not sure how people discover new music that is entirely outside the realm of what they already know they like. You used to do that by going to the record store, hanging out, talking to people, listening to what they were playing, perusing the stacks, reading magazines, etc. I realize that there are new ways of accomplishing the above, but whole current trend of Pandora etc. is all about giving you an endless stream of what you already like.

What's the intersection between people that want to listen to Tupac and Mozart? Maybe it's not huge, but it isn't zero. If you build an AI-driven algorithm based on what someone happens to be in the mood to listen to at that moment in time, though, fans of the former will never discover the latter (and vice versa). That seems sub-optimal to me.

People have said this in every era of music. Look back at the charts. It's filled with $-generating formulaic music.

There will always be a mix of both.

Agreed, but people were right when they said "music now sucks" in certain eras. Late 70's. Most of the 80's. Now. There are peaks-and-valleys in creativity in the arts, and while it's true that everyone likes what they grew up with, over time it's pretty clear that all eras are not equal in creativity or (more subjectively) quality.

I really can't get behind the Spotify movement. I'm not crazy about the interface and I get quite a bit of music with Amazon Prime's app.

I wish someone would start a music streaming service with a phone partnership that includes "free" data while using their app. DirecTV Now doesn't use data with AT&T and that's a pretty cool feature.

There are some apps that do this (watching TV on Verizon's app on a Verizon device, for example, doesn't cost you data) but this is in theory prioritizing one service over another, which would be potentially challenge-able under 'net neutrality' rules. Not going to go there, but the discourse around the pros/cons of so-called net-neutrality was, IMO, surprisingly shallow and 1-sided.

Ya'll are nuts. Between podcasts, my own mixes/playlists, and the ability to listen to practically any album I can think of paying $10 a month to listen to (on average) 32 hours a week. The return on investment is insane.

If you don't like popular music or another genre - then why bother with the nuances of it's history or modern acts? Why lament the "downfall" of a genre you admit to not liking or care anything about. Seems a little silly.

It'd be like me not venturing into jazz because "they don't make em like they use to, do they?"

Everyone likes some kind of 'popular' music, more-or-less. It's what happens to be popular at the time that's at issue. In the 90's, so-called 'alternative' rock was 'popular' music, and to a lot of people, that was superior to the 'boy band' popular music of the 2000's and whatever is considered pop by today's standards. I'm sure there are a lot of bands doing interesting and creative things right now, but whoever they are, they certainly aren't "popular" because I haven't heard anything remotely artistically interesting or genre-bending/defining in quite some time...

And you should venture into jazz, precisely because "they don't make em like they use [sic] to".

Because it has infiltrated everything, its inescapable without becoming a recluse. It's not that they dont make it like they used to. It's the lack of uniqueness within genre that is staggering. Not sure what genre downfall you are referring to. Pop music now is filled with many "genres", but unfortunately feature copycat themes. It mostly relies on gimmicks and repetition to sell. There are many more artists than ever before, so why less variety in popular music, and why more icessant repetition than ever before?

Thats why most music today is pumped out very quickly, played into the ground until even the people who like it are sick of it, then falls into the depths of forgetfulness, only to be replaced by the next "hit", wash, rinse, repeat. Many popular artists are used and then disposed of. Much of the music (not all) is written and arranged by focus groups and teams of people rather than individuals.

But there is no escaping hearing it, they make sure of that.

How would you even describe pop music today? Auto-tune-created disposable 2-and-a-half-minute diversions? Focus-group-tested lowest-common-denominator low-effort consumables? Median-50th-percentile-of-all-musical-taste products? Has anyone invented a new genre or expanded the boundaries of an existing genre in new and interesting ways? And forget about innovating, is anyone even doing really solid work within a firmly established genre?

I honestly have no idea. I just know when someone tries to describe the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band of the 2010's was....[blank]", I'm not sure how to fill in that blank.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Because it has infiltrated everything, its inescapable without becoming a recluse. It's not that they dont make it like they used to. It's the lack of uniqueness within genre that is staggering. Not sure what genre downfall you are referring to. Pop music now is filled with many "genres", but unfortunately feature copycat themes. It mostly relies on gimmicks and repetition to sell. There are many more artists than ever before, so why less variety in popular music, and why more icessant repetition than ever before?

You don't have to be a recluse to keep from hearing any of this. Whether or not it affects a band you like being able to "unplug" is so easy now. There's really no reason to say the same things people have said about popular music since the beginning of time.

I guess I'm just of the mind that music hasn't changed all that dramatically outside of establishing new genres. The process is still very much the same as are the cycles. Variety is a moving target - some times a fad comes in and takes over the industry (nu-metal, auto-tune, etc) before giving way to other styles as they fight for king of the mountain. Repetition is probably about the same level as listening habits shift from the strict structure of the radio and radio stations to streaming services while artists figure out ways to incorporate their songs into popular culture (ie: marketing).

Thats why most music today is pumped out very quickly, played into the ground until even the people who like it are sick of it, then falls into the depths of forgetfulness, only to be replaced by the next "hit", wash, rinse, repeat. Many popular artists are used and then disposed of. Much of the music (not all) is written and arranged by focus groups and teams of people rather than individuals.

This process has been the standard for as long as there has been a music industry. It's helped churn out some classic stars, but 99% of the artists/songs you never hear from again.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

What's the intersection between people that want to listen to Tupac and Mozart? Maybe it's not huge, but it isn't zero. If you build an AI-driven algorithm based on what someone happens to be in the mood to listen to at that moment in time, though, fans of the former will never discover the latter (and vice versa). That seems sub-optimal to me.

I think you still have to do it yourself. Sure, Pandora or a Spotify playlist might point you in the right direction, but like you said that's based on what you've already listened to.

Still, the ease of access is still there. Google searches. Friends. Families. Local concerts. Etc. Music is so easy to consume it's hard to imagine it being less so just 10-20 years ago.

Everyone likes some kind of 'popular' music, more-or-less. It's what happens to be popular at the time that's at issue. In the 90's, so-called 'alternative' rock was 'popular' music, and to a lot of people, that was superior to the 'boy band' popular music of the 2000's and whatever is considered pop by today's standards. I'm sure there are a lot of bands doing interesting and creative things right now, but whoever they are, they certainly aren't "popular" because I haven't heard anything remotely artistically interesting or genre-bending/defining in quite some time...

And you should venture into jazz, precisely because "they don't make em like they use [sic] to".

Thankfully, I have ventured into jazz. Even that genre has it's own old men yelling at clouds, though. The old heads either don't get or simply don't like (a lot of times a combo of the two) where new music is or where it's headed. It's easier to dismiss and ignore than to challenge yourself and keep up with the flow.

Anyway, even when grunge was popular there were still other movements that were in the spotlight. It's not like "alt. rock" just took over and everything else was forgotten. I mean, you had Britney Spears and Eminem rivaling each other at the same time. It's a fairly complex "genre" that people dismiss outright because it's consumable readily and in mass quantities.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

You don't have to be a recluse to keep from hearing any of this. Whether or not it affects a band you like being able to "unplug" is so easy now. There's really no reason to say the same things people have said about popular music since the beginning of time.

I guess I'm just of the mind that music hasn't changed all that dramatically outside of establishing new genres. The process is still very much the same as are the cycles. Variety is a moving target - some times a fad comes in and takes over the industry (nu-metal, auto-tune, etc) before giving way to other styles as they fight for king of the mountain. Repetition is probably about the same level as listening habits shift from the strict structure of the radio and radio stations to streaming services while artists figure out ways to incorporate their songs into popular culture (ie: marketing).





This process has been the standard for as long as there has been a music industry. It's helped churn out some classic stars, but 99% of the artists/songs you never hear from again.

Today's environment is much different than ever before. It's not about the music or artists. Even many true artists in the music industry have talked about the crap that is so pervasive in the industry. I was at a concert last summer and the lead singer actually said "i am going to apologize before these next few songs because they are **** and they make me play this ****. Just letting you know it ain't me, i hate playing this ****." Then he played 3 or 4 popular songs of theirs. Everyone laughed but he was 100% serious, and they were ones everyone knew the words to because they are on the radio.

Unless you mine for it, you don't ever hear what the artists really want you to hear. And many of them aren't true artists to begin with, which you also find out when you mine for it. Those artists ARE products themselves.

Good music generally doesn't sell. Catchy music sells.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Agreed, but what I do think is different is that everything now is predicated on figuring out what you already like, and then feeding you more of that. I'm not sure how people discover new music that is entirely outside the realm of what they already know they like. You used to do that by going to the record store, hanging out, talking to people, listening to what they were playing, perusing the stacks, reading magazines, etc. I realize that there are new ways of accomplishing the above, but whole current trend of Pandora etc. is all about giving you an endless stream of what you already like.

Agreed, but this only happens if you let it. You have that record store at your finger tips, only it's infinitely larger. I talk about new music with my friends all the time. Also, believe it or not, there are actually good things about reddit - this is one of them. It also isn't a bad thing because sometimes you do want a stream of something that you already like. Especially if you're just using it for background noise at work or something.

I keep going back to the simple fact that if you can't find new music or new genres to enjoy, it's because you aren't trying hard enough.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

Agreed, but this only happens if you let it. You have that record store at your finger tips, only it's infinitely larger. I talk about new music with my friends all the time. Also, believe it or not, there are actually good things about reddit - this is one of them. It also isn't a bad thing because sometimes you do want a stream of something that you already like. Especially if you're just using it for background noise at work or something.

I keep going back to the simple fact that if you can't find new music or new genres to enjoy, it's because you aren't trying hard enough.

This is exactly my point. The original post and every other post referred to all the pervasive junk that they flood the market with. Thus "popular" music. The fact that you have to "try hard" to find good music is a shame. And is exactly the point we are making.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

You don't even have to try that hard to find good music. There are some very good popular music artists out there even.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

You don't even have to try that hard to find good music. There are some very good popular music artists out there even.

Meh. Lol. Its much harder than that for me at least. But one things for sure. We aren't gonna agree lol. But that's ok. That's why its an uncommon opinion! Leave it up to Blzer to bring something up and then sit in his evil chair and pet his evil cat as it all plays out in front of him.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

This is exactly my point. The original post and every other post referred to all the pervasive junk that they flood the market with. Thus "popular" music. The fact that you have to "try hard" to find good music is a shame. And is exactly the point we are making.

And my point is that it's easier than ever to find good music.

[pietasterp]

Re: Uncommon Opinions

And my point is that it's easier than ever to find good music.

It's easier than ever to find good music today. It's just that said good music isn't necessarily from today.