Real life scripting

[ricardodc]

Hi!

You all know about those moments when you feel CPU suddenly looks like it is unstoppable, or your teammates don’t react normally or start to make dumb mistakes. Some say that’s EA scripting… Some call it “momentum”… I don’t want to get in the discussion about if it’s real there or not. The topic is about those real life games when it looks that’s a “divine scripting” playing. Those most shocking outcomes that you would never accept it if you were controlling the loosing side. Those games when you most probably would rage and shout out “Stupid videogame! I am sick of this bs!”

Real life football/soccer history is full of those games. I am sure you can immediate remember some.

These you will certainly identify:
25/05/2005 Liverpool vs Milan (Champions League)
14/04/2016 Liverpool vs Borussia Dortmund (Europa League)
27/06/2016 England vs Iceland (Euro 2016)

Post your thoughts and more examples of “real life scripting”!

This thread isn't meant to defend FIFA scripting. It's a relaxed space to post RL amazing examples of football games or events.

Cheers!

[Turbojugend]

Re: Real life scripting

City for the title vs. QPR immediately comes to mind.

[Matt10]

Re: Real life scripting

I think the subject of scripting is relevant to the comparison it draws upon real life events. If the video game scripting is the result of 11-15 perfectly connected passes, every match in that scenario, then I would say that is poor scripting.

The majority of those real life comebacks did not come from perfectly orchestrated moves, they came from pure luck and determination - which is the beauty of a football match in the dying minutes.

If FIFA can accomplish the result, with the human nature and raw determination - then they will get away from terms like scripting. There are multiple triggers that would suggest an increase in stats/ratings when those scenarios do arise. It's clearly written in the code that majority of the PC version users have access to.

[BL8001]

Re: Real life scripting

Rarely have I seen in real life...

The ball always bouncing towards one team

The sheer amount of field swaps, sometimes back to back to back to back

During the field swap the opposing teams defender frozen in a "I will stand here and watch the ball go over my head and admire it" animation

One team mugging the other and no foul called while you miss and whiff the tackle completely but the CPU loses the ball on their own so it must be a foul on you

One teams players always jump/move away from the ball when possession is lost while the other team barges in all match and toe pokes every ball away from you.

The sheer amount of fingertip saves.

The sheer amount of woodwork being struck.


I really can't think of any moment in the history of the sport that does these things FIFA does.

[Chrisx]

Re: Real life scripting

Yeah, there are plenty of matches like that and believe me, it's the type of match I would like to experience in video game form as well, we are not all 16 year olds complaining because we lost a game. But Matt is right, it's about the implementation.

EA thinks that they can play director to such scenarios when the proper way to do it is to get the game fundamentals and the balance right. If this ever happens these scenarios will emerge at random, and I will be having tons of fun even if I lose. Currently some of the goals the cpu can score in these situations just leave me feeling...nothing. It just reminds me that I'm playing a video game, my immersion is killed and all I can think of is "well if you could play like barca why did you pretend you were Yeovil Town for the first 80 minutes?"

(BTW there is nothing fundamentally wrong with scripting, as long as it implements logic already present in the real game. For example the cpu parking the bus is obvious scripting but it should happen! But again look at the lazy implementation: If i'm losing I'm thinking: "I'd better score before the 80th minute when the cpu will park the bus". Who thought this kind of predictability was a good idea? It kills almost all joy and immersion after a few dozen matches).

[KG]

Re: Real life scripting

Rarely have I seen in real life...

The ball always bouncing towards one team

The sheer amount of field swaps, sometimes back to back to back to back

During the field swap the opposing teams defender frozen in a "I will stand here and watch the ball go over my head and admire it" animation

One team mugging the other and no foul called while you miss and whiff the tackle completely but the CPU loses the ball on their own so it must be a foul on you

One teams players always jump/move away from the ball when possession is lost while the other team barges in all match and toe pokes every ball away from you.

The sheer amount of fingertip saves.

The sheer amount of woodwork being struck.


I really can't think of any moment in the history of the sport that does these things FIFA does.

While I know you're speaking in slightly over-exaggerated terms, the logic behind "scripting" is damn near impossible to program.

Goals against the run of play

Opposing defenses putting all 11 behind the ball while the attacking team brings waves & waves of pressure

Keepers make match saving saves

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tjWIjeW-Qa8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I think of Da Gea a few years ago when United really bottomed out. IMO, he kept them from finishing in the bottom 3rd.

I agree that are certain matches where it seems like it's impossible to win but there's crazy things happening every week in front of our eyes in the EPL.

[BL8001]

Re: Real life scripting

Right, but crazy things across the whole league each week.

Not over and over again in the same match.

Edit: I must also write that I am coming off a lack of sleep after completing the Futties FUT single player tournament. FUT is evil. I really wish I had FIFA 16 on ps4 so I could record 15 minute chunks of gameplay. The final vs Italy contained multiple examples of everything FIFA does that makes me want to rage quit. I ended up winning 1-0 on a quit 'effing with me LT run and roofed one past buffon. Got outshot 12-3 by the CPU.

[ricardodc]

Re: Real life scripting

While I know you're speaking in slightly over-exaggerated terms, the logic behind "scripting" is damn near impossible to program.

Goals against the run of play

Opposing defenses putting all 11 behind the ball while the attacking team brings waves & waves of pressure

Keepers make match saving saves

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tjWIjeW-Qa8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I think of Da Gea a few years ago when United really bottomed out. IMO, he kept them from finishing in the bottom 3rd.

I agree that are certain matches where it seems like it's impossible to win but there's crazy things happening every week in front of our eyes in the EPL.

Thanks for your post. That's exactly what I want to see.


I don't want to play the role of defending EA, but I really think "emotional" or "mental" effects on players are very difficult to simulate. A real life example was the way England lost to Iceland. It was in my opinion mainly an emotional breakdown. How can EA simulate world class players missing that amount of easy short passes, crosses, FK, headers, etc, like it happened that game?...


I remember the goal here is not to discuss about if there's scripting in FIFA or if you know it's there, the way EA implemented it. It's just about those stunning real life moments, games or competitions that might look like a videogame "script".

For me, the way Portugal won Euro 2016 was a "divine script"...

Cheers!

[Matt10]

Re: Real life scripting

Thanks for your post. That's exactly what I want to see.


I don't want to play the role of defending EA, but I really think "emotional" or "mental" effects on players are very difficult to simulate. A real life example was the way England lost to Iceland. It was in my opinion mainly an emotional breakdown. How can EA simulate world class players missing that amount of easy short passes, crosses, FK, headers, etc, like it happened that game?...


I remember the goal here is not to discuss about if there's scripting in FIFA or if you know it's there, the way EA implemented it. It's just about those stunning real life moments, games or competitions that might look like a videogame "script".

For me, the way Portugal won Euro 2016 was a "divine script"...

Cheers!

A couple of integer values here and there, with a scenario "if this, then that" like they program already, in theory, would work fine. The problem is the execution of these dramatic moments are masked with poor animation and collisions.

Instead, what we see are ADD, or players running away from the ball carrier, players warping out of position, keepers warping into save animations (backward save animation to be specific) or defenders backing off a striker at the top of the box - who is left to turn freely.

The only thing that will add in another layer to the scripting will be enforcing the custom team tactics and a wave of situational tactics (adaptive, similar to PES attempts, hopefully with better execution).

[KG]

Re: Real life scripting

A couple of integer values here and there, with a scenario "if this, then that" like they program already, in theory, would work fine. The problem is the execution of these dramatic moments are masked with poor animation and collisions.

Instead, what we see are ADD, or players running away from the ball carrier, players warping out of position, keepers warping into save animations (backward save animation to be specific) or defenders backing off a striker at the top of the box - who is left to turn freely.

The only thing that will add in another layer to the scripting will be enforcing the custom team tactics and a wave of situational tactics (adaptive, similar to PES attempts, hopefully with better execution).

I agree more with the players warping/blindly running back to their position w/o regard to players & space than bad animations/collisions. Sure there's the odd animation that causes the ball to roll to the feet of a perfectly positioned CPU teammate but IMO stuff like that is rare.

I definitely agree with the last part though and fault EA for not forcing players to think as managers do when playing the CPU or not having the CPU counter what the Human player is doing. I wish FIFA would copy PES 2016's attack advanced stats so Humans can really see how one dimensional most of their attacks are. I don't blame Human players though because the game's AI doesn't react to it. FIFA has gotten better at adjusting CPU tactics mid-match but rarely do they take into account match awareness and playing for a result.

What I do think we're guilty of is not accepting AI error as real-life human error. IRL, players are constantly out of position, getting beat 1v1, etc... All offenses aren't punishable in terms of giving up a goal but even the top clubs suffer from lapses (I'm still upset that Eden Hazard didn't track 2 runs in 2014 vs Atletico in the 2nd leg of the CL semis that led to 2 goals).

Some of this is lessened IRL by team chemistry but that's another thing missing in CM. A season like Leicester is impossible to replicate because everyone just plays to their ratings. If there was a team chemistry rating like there was in CH2K8 they would be more formidable in-game rather than a push-over. It's part of the reason why big matches in FIFA CM rarely feel big.

[dubcity]

Re: Real life scripting

Definitely some confirmation bias at work with "scripting" - afterall, we don't complain when our team wins 90% of 50/50 balls in a game - but it's been proven that there is code written in to boost CPU players to balance the gameplay in certain situations.

Personal fave: Up 1-0 or 2-1 late, CPU teammate (or user controlled player on rails) gives away a corner for literally no reason, resulting in a goal via header. That's one you can see coming a mile away.

[CaseIH]

Re: Real life scripting

Hi!

You all know about those moments when you feel CPU suddenly looks like it is unstoppable, or your teammates don’t react normally or start to make dumb mistakes. Some say that’s EA scripting… Some call it “momentum”… I don’t want to get in the discussion about if it’s real there or not. The topic is about those real life games when it looks that’s a “divine scripting” playing. Those most shocking outcomes that you would never accept it if you were controlling the loosing side. Those games when you most probably would rage and shout out “Stupid videogame! I am sick of this bs!”

Real life football/soccer history is full of those games. I am sure you can immediate remember some.

These you will certainly identify:
25/05/2005 Liverpool vs Milan (Champions League)
14/04/2016 Liverpool vs Borussia Dortmund (Europa League)
27/06/2016 England vs Iceland (Euro 2016)

Post your thoughts and more examples of “real life scripting”!

Cheers!

Dont know anything about soccer, just starting to learn about it after all these years of thinking it was a game for woman only, boy how wrong I was all these years to think that, although I do still enjoy watching the woman more, well I enjoy watching the hot girls in the league,lol, I so have a appreciation for the men that play the sport now. It does seem with every sports video game there is always this theory of scripting, and that the devs program the AI to have a comeback code an all that BS you here about with sports video games. The NBA2k players probably cry about this more than anyone, especially the online gamers that think if you have the lead your opponent gets a boost,lol. I havent played enough of FIFA16 as I just got it about 4 days ago, to say 1 way or another if this is true, but my guess is going by the other sports games I play is this is nothing more than BS, with people upset if they are losing or struggling to win easily. I do think when you play on the highest difficulty in sports games and its probably like this with FIFA too, is the AI does get a boost and/or your AI players get dumbed down to make things harder. I dont agree with how this is programed, but I suppose they havent figured out a better way to program the highest difficulty yet.

[ricardodc]

Re: Real life scripting

What I do think we're guilty of is not accepting AI error as real-life human error. IRL, players are constantly out of position, getting beat 1v1, etc... All offenses aren't punishable in terms of giving up a goal but even the top clubs suffer from lapses (I'm still upset that Eden Hazard didn't track 2 runs in 2014 vs Atletico in the 2nd leg of the CL semis that led to 2 goals).

100% agreed! Human error is a huge factor in real like sport. If we look careful enough, even in just one 90 min game, we can identify countless "errors" made by all 22 players. The thing is that just a little portion will have a major impact on the final result. And if you take a look at all goals scored in RL, just a minority results of pure attacking team or individual brilliancy. The majority result of defensive team or individual mistakes. I am sure you all have seen top strikers score a stunning goal and miss an 1 to 1 easy situation in the same game. We all have seen poor GK entering "god mode" and saving all shots resulting in huge shockers. We all have seen overall poor players score the goal of their lives against a super favorite teams. That's football/soccer! That's why we all love it. You will never know what will happen...
The problem with FIFA and other sport videogames is we as users don't tend to accept error so lightly. For example: we have an easy clear goal chance. Our top striker has the ball. We aim to goal. The shot power is perfect... Will you accept that the shot ends up going to the stands? I am sure you will not. But guess what?!... That's reality... Have you seen Messi missing that penalty against Chile?... I have seen countless complaints about EA missing the perfect defensive positioning, missing perfect runs, etc. I guess you don't want a simulation...

Some of this is lessened IRL by team chemistry but that's another thing missing in CM. A season like Leicester is impossible to replicate because everyone just plays to their ratings. If there was a team chemistry rating like there was in CH2K8 they would be more formidable in-game rather than a push-over. It's part of the reason why big matches in FIFA CM rarely feel big.

I might add "team morale" and "individual morale" should play an important role as well.

Definitely some confirmation bias at work with "scripting" - afterall, we don't complain when our team wins 90% of 50/50 balls in a game - but it's been proven that there is code written in to boost CPU players to balance the gameplay in certain situations.

... We also tend to forget the times we score a late winner but always remember the ones we concede...

Personal fave: Up 1-0 or 2-1 late, CPU teammate (or user controlled player on rails) gives away a corner for literally no reason, resulting in a goal via header. That's one you can see coming a mile away.

True. But that's also true in real life. Personalty I´ve experience that feeling many times, when something bad happens to your team and you say "Man... I knew that was happening... Why they didn't see it! Why the manager did nothing to prevent it!"...

Cheers!

[PPerfect_CJ]

Re: Real life scripting

Stevie G's slip against City. That was life scripting that I'm not allowed to be happy for long.

[Matt10]

Re: Real life scripting

Pretty sure I've had FT Control @ 100, Shot Error @ 55; I've definitely accepted human error.

What I won't accept is how, rather "when", the scripting works, but we can beat this dead horse all day.