PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

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  • KG
    Welcome Back
    • Sep 2005
    • 17583

    #331
    Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

    Some great discussion in here fellas!

    Regarding Barca, that's how they are in real life though. They subscribe to the 6 sec rule (after losing possession they MUST win it back within 6 secs or they drop into formation). It's why generally counter-attack focused teams (or teams that switch to that mentality) are the only one's to really have success vs them (2014 Real, 2012 Chelsea, Atletico). They also push so many #'s forward that they often have 2-3 players around the ball when in possession so when they lose it it's easy to swarm.

    I've noticed that when playing them most of my matches are up & down because of their high pressure tactic which leaves their midfield over-exposed. When I'm playing with no assistance though, that press is lethal and I'm constantly just clearing the ball out of danger instead of trying to pass my way out of the back. I beat them for the first time this morning with Arsenal. They had 8 shots to my 2 (and 1 was from a FK) and I pretty much just soaked up pressure and tried to have 2 players around Messi and Neymar at all times.

    In regards to tactics as a crutch, I'm guilty at times of that but my primary goal with tactics is to get different play styles by different teams. I hate repetitiveness, especially in video games when it comes to AI. It's why I prefer tactics to sliders BUT fully realize that a combination of both is the most we can ask for in a game.

    Edit: Completely agree about those missing ratings Matt. I thought the old PES' had some of the best attributes in sports games. They really had an impact on the game and how you rated players.
    Twitter Instagram - kgx2thez

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    • kinfolk
      Rookie
      • Oct 2015
      • 10

      #332
      Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

      Originally posted by nunogomes
      To keep possession: you can shield the ball (R1 without moving the left stick), but you can also press R2 to face the goal and get your ball really close to your feet. Try it while you have the ball on your defense and get used to R2.
      "R1 without moving the left stick" doesn't work for me, the player doesn't protect the ball at all.

      I saw the Bhatti and German guy youtube video in the other thread and they managed to dribble inside the box, I keep losing the ball all the time so I usually end up shooting from distance. Is there any video that explains how to control the ball? (Sorry for the noob questions)

      Comment

      • phillyfan23
        MVP
        • Feb 2005
        • 2307

        #333
        Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

        Just wondering, what was your biggest margin of victory against the cpu on top player or above ? Just worried that there is rubberbanding....up by 2 goals, and the cpu will at least score one back. Any 2-0 or 3-0 wins on the demo???


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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        • elprez98
          MVP
          • Dec 2003
          • 4237

          #334
          PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

          A couple more little things I love in PES.

          1. The passing. When I turn passing assistance completely off, it is off. Then ball always goes where I expect it, whether it is a good pass or not.

          2. Heading. If I have Metersacker and a cross is floated I don't have Messi or Neymar out jumping me. I mean driven crosses are of course a different story but height actually matters with heading and I can't say the same about the other game.
          Originally posted by My Wife
          "The Celtics only won because they have a magical elf playing for their team...."

          Comment

          • RoyceDa59
            Chillin
            • Aug 2003
            • 3830

            #335
            Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

            I really miss some those old stats especially Shot Technique and especially Team work those were key to really get some players to play close to lifelike before the introduction of "Player ID". I remember those days of playing PES 4-6 and frequenting one of my favorite sites back then Pes Stats Database and discussing ratings and formations, good times.

            I will say that one thing this year version Konami has done a great job making teams play through their star players and it is present through every team in the demo, even on the national teams.

            Originally posted by phillyfan23
            Just wondering, what was your biggest margin of victory against the cpu on top player or above ? Just worried that there is rubberbanding....up by 2 goals, and the cpu will at least score one back. Any 2-0 or 3-0 wins on the demo???
            I have had a few, 3-0 and 2-0 wins. My 3-0 win came on Top player against Boca using Arsenal though. But I haven't noticed any rubber-band AI, teams will press a lot when they are down or late in the match maybe that is what you are seeing. When I notice this I usually just switch to the Tiki-Taka Advance tactic.
            Last edited by RoyceDa59; 09-06-2016, 03:30 PM.

            Comment

            • papinho81
              Pro
              • Feb 2015
              • 673

              #336
              Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

              Nice video Matt as always!

              I think tactics are very important in collective sports practiced at the high level in general and in football particularly.

              Some teams made of average players manage to make it because of their well prepared and strong adherence to tactic while others teams made of very good players fail because of not well designed tactic for the team or poor adherence to it. One good example for the first category is Island during the last Euro. If they went so far in this tournament I think it is because they had a simple and well defined tactics with players that strictly stick to it. The reason why they collapsed against France was very likely because they were burnt. Last year Chelsea was probably a good example for the second category (might be more the adherence to the coach but in the end the result is the same).

              So definitively in real life football tactic is very important but the adherence to it varies between teams and through time. I guess this is something very hard for developers to implement into a video game.



              Based on the PES17 demo (didn’t play pes since pes4) it seems to me that tactics and the strong adherence to it is what brings teams personality into the game. Has Gnemi said I also prefer team personality due to strong adherence to tactic rather than no team personality and tactic marginally having an impact on the game.

              To me the problem seems to be more that the “real life” team tactics have been poorly translated into video game tactic.

              The example of Barcelona is the most striking. As you guys said their pressing is so insane! If you play with Barcelona you will have hard time recreating this insane pressure except if you use double or triple press square and you can be sure your opponent will punish any error with long ball in the back of the defense. So here it is clearly a matter of tactic but also mentality (double triple pressing) that I hope we will be able to adjust in the full game.
              Also the formation of Barcelona is not perfectly appropriate for this kind of high pressing. In the demo PES assigned a wrong role to Busquets. In the game he is a CMF and it is why we see him so often up pitch. Sometimes in finishing position something that almost never happens to him in real life. In real life Busquets is CDM and his role, as a sentinel of the midfield (between the midfield and the defense either in attack or defense), is essential in the high pressure and possession tactic Barcelona uses. This is because he is able to offer a “safe” pass possibility by staying in that zone but also to cover the back of fullback when they are involved in the pressing. He is himself rarely involved in this high pressure phase in the opponent half. Playing myself with FCB, now I change Busquest role to CDM and it could be placebo but I think it has helped me to win game with FCB. Before that, I was losing most of my game with FCB because of long balls in the back of my defense.

              Barcelona is not the only team with tactics poorly implemented. If you take the example of Arsenal with the offensive full back tactic it is very obvious when you start from your defense with the ball searching for pass possibilities that the FB are walking side by side with the LMF or RMF. Either the FBs are to high pitch or it is the midfielders that are too low. I think if we could assign these midfielders the role of winger it would help in that department.

              Then, wingers that have been said to stay on the line (France for example) really stick a bit too much to the line while they could probably eat space better when the ball is on the other side of the pitch.

              I love to play with Germany because I think this team has a really nice tactic implemented. They are so well positioned in defense and also move very well up pitch when you have the ball. I am not sure it sticks well to the real Germany tactic (I would say yes) but a great feeling of solidity transpires out of it.



              Sorry for this long post. As a summary I would say tactics are very important in modern top level football. Players have to adhere to tactic in order to have a good coordination thus a team game. Tactic and strong adherence to it seems to be what gives team personality in PES17 demo. But, out of the box tactics are not well designed/tuned by PES. Hopefully we can adjust this in the final game.

              Edit: Side note,
              Have you seen any shot by the cpu above the cross bar? Because I didn't.
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              Last edited by papinho81; 09-07-2016, 05:36 AM.

              Comment

              • Bixer
                Rookie
                • Nov 2015
                • 246

                #337
                Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                While I haven't played the previous few iterations of PES much, I'm personally glad that player stats such as 'Teamwork' are no longer there - seems a bit silly imo.

                How well a player fits into a team/listens to tactics depends purely on the team/system they're in and how well they get on with their manager.

                I don't think an arbitrary number should follow a player around at every club they join, leaving them destined to potentially be 'stubborn' no matter which team buys them or what setup they're deployed in.

                You only have to look at Hazard already this season vs. last season to see how much such a 'number' would drastically change - it's not really feasible to have it set permanently in a game.

                Comment

                • bredfan
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 92

                  #338
                  Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                  Originally posted by Bixer
                  While I haven't played the previous few iterations of PES much, I'm personally glad that player stats such as 'Teamwork' are no longer there - seems a bit silly imo.

                  How well a player fits into a team/listens to tactics depends purely on the team/system they're in and how well they get on with their manager.

                  I don't think an arbitrary number should follow a player around at every club they join, leaving them destined to potentially be 'stubborn' no matter which team buys them or what setup they're deployed in.

                  You only have to look at Hazard already this season vs. last season to see how much such a 'number' would drastically change - it's not really feasible to have it set permanently in a game.
                  If 17 is anything like last year there will be a "teamwork" stat in Master League. They called it "team spirit" last year.

                  If you changed tactics, formation, lineups, or brought in players that had differing strengths compared to your team tactics, that number would go down until you "acclimated" your team.

                  There was an easy way around it by just editing the team or players to suit your tactics, but it had a much more profound effect than I would have liked.

                  Like, even giving a starter a rest because they accumulated too much fatigue (Which is another problem with Master League. The way Fatigue is handled seems kind off off. But that's another discussion) and bringing in a rotation player would cause your TS to drop.

                  Again, not sure if it'll be in this year, but I'm sure even if they don't show you the value it'll be buried in there somewhere. It's an easy way to make games play differently.

                  Comment

                  • papinho81
                    Pro
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 673

                    #339
                    Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                    To continue on the Barcelona tactic discussion. It seems they only play in the game as they should (real life counterpart) when in defensive mode (sky blue level). Only then they produce a real possession play.

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                    • papinho81
                      Pro
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 673

                      #340
                      Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                      Here is an interesting article explaining quite nicely Barcelona tactic and among things how Busquets has been "formatted" in la Masia since he is 8 years old to play the role he is currently having in the Barcelona tactic.

                      Few teams are spoken about and imitated as much as FC Barcelona, with its famously fluid style of play and ideas of footballing evolution. The 'Barcelona Way'

                      Comment

                      • nunogomes
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 1107

                        #341
                        Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                        Originally posted by papinho81
                        To continue on the Barcelona tactic discussion. It seems they only play in the game as they should (real life counterpart) when in defensive mode (sky blue level). Only then they produce a real possession play.
                        Yeah, even with the crazy pressure thing, they don´t always start like that.

                        Yesterday i was playing as Atletico Madrid vs Barcelona (CPU) and in the first 20/25 minutes (game time) i would not be pressured by 2 or even 3 guys, it was always just 1, and most of the times he would even back off if i was near my own goal.

                        After those 20/25 minutes, without any change in the score, comes the double and triple relentless pressure and it lasted until the 60 minute of 2nd half, when they scored. After the score, they just kept doing the normal pressure...

                        I enjoyed it honestly, because it was a notable change without any team scoring!

                        Still saw Suarez being substituted... don´t know what´s happening but either he or Messi get substituted like 70% of the games against me...

                        Comment

                        • Gnemi
                          Rookie
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 1519

                          #342
                          Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                          Anybody bothered by (or even noticing) a lack of shots? Most my matches have less than 10 total shots. Ten minute halves...


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                          • papinho81
                            Pro
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 673

                            #343
                            Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                            Originally posted by Gnemi
                            Anybody bothered by (or even noticing) a lack of shots? Most my matches have less than 10 total shots. Ten minute halves...


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                            Hey Gnemi, it is 10 min full game!

                            Comment

                            • Gnemi
                              Rookie
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 1519

                              #344
                              Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                              Originally posted by papinho81
                              Hey Gnemi, it is 10 min full game!


                              lmao, carry on, lads - nothing to see here...


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                              Comment

                              • KG
                                Welcome Back
                                • Sep 2005
                                • 17583

                                #345
                                Re: PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

                                Originally posted by papinho81
                                Here is an interesting article explaining quite nicely Barcelona tactic and among things how Busquets has been "formatted" in la Masia since he is 8 years old to play the role he is currently having in the Barcelona tactic.

                                http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...ampions-league


                                To me that article exemplifies the way they play in PES with the exception being Busquets pushing forward so much (which you mentioned). Suarez is literally the perfect #9 for them which is crazy considering the great #9s they have had recently (Eto, Zlatan, even Messi).

                                In regards to the subs, I personally think we'll see more of them this year in real life as Alcacer was brought in to provide depth and to keep MSN fresh (I think they wore down at the end of last yr). I was kinda shocked they loaned Munir, thought he looked good in preseason considering the injury he was coming off of but to me they had an incredible summer window.

                                Back on topic, I thought the demo was getting easier but I've been playing some Barca B (me) vs their 1st team and I've been getting BLITZED!


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