PES 2017 Tactics

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Question for Matt10 on the 5 second change. Would it be a good idea to leave the bottom dwelling teams in a league without these changes and only the top tier teams with the changes made? I would expect that to open things up a bit more for those teams that are not so good to get more scoring against them compared to the upper tier teams that could use the tightening adjustments on defense. Does that make sense to maybe give a bit more variety from top to bottom teams and not have them all playing top notch defense?

5 Second change is designed to prevent the instant retreat from being more than 20-30 yards. If the "In Possession" formation isn't changed to "Out of Possession", you're going to see the ultra retreat, as if a team is trying to hold on to a 1-0 lead in stoppage time. The formation has to be tight like that so now the instant retreat is only 5-10 yards per player. The animation sucks, but at least it doesn't have to be seen for more than 10 yards, not to mention frontline pressure helps that as well.

I'm not sure where this goes, but I tweeted Thomas Broad (KONAMI stats guy) about how the A/D levels are triggered. No response just yet. Good guy though, so hopefully he'll respond.

[TeleTex82]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Do you need a second controller to edit opponents tactics in ML, or can you do it in edit mode, then go back into ML and see the changes?

You cant switch sides or use another controller, unfortunately. The way I usually do it is edit everyting first in edit mode. So basically do a whole league and some of the big CL teams. Then I start Master League. Play a game, exit, adjust, repeat until im happy. Usually 3 games. Save, move on to the next opponent on the calendar. Tedious, but since I am holding off on a real ML until next week it doesnt make much of a difference.

[nunogomes]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Im still not sold on the differences in the attack/defend formations with fluid formations, for now.

If im against a great team, i like to feel pressured, on my toes, "forced" to rely more on the long ball and counter, and by turning on fluid formations, i feel the CPU doesn´t pressure me on my own half, which, to me, is crucial in a big team.

What i will try tonight is set a big team, like Man. City, for example, to a high line, pressure and agressive options on and choose tiki taka, offensive fullbacks and gegenpress on the tactics.

Then, i set the exact same tactic for defensive (fluid formations on of course) and only retreat the wingers and mid fielders a bit, but not making them LM or RM...

I think this might get the big teams play a bit better...

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Has anyone tested the power of fluid formations? The adherence to it I mean.

Maybe set all players up on the left side of the pitch when they don't have the ball and everyone to the right side when they do?

Then we could figure out how much pull this feature has vs. the built in tactics coding.

[bredfan]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

I could be wrong, but I feel like trying to mold the game to play right is kinda moot. Even if you go into every team and change all the settings, long run, I'm not sure it's gunna do a whole lot for you.

You may see some instant payoff in exhibition matches because they're one offs and you're starting with a blank page every game. Also, things like form, and emotion aren't random and there is no accumulated fatigue.

In ML/tourneys/seasons, things like form/condition, lineups, emotion, team roles, stamina, momentum, type of fixture (cup/league), home/away, derbies, team spirit, injuries, and the biggest blocker to customization, adaptive AI are huge influences that we have no control over.

I'm not saying that it's a 100% guarantee that it can't be done. I'm just saying that I wouldn't wanna spend the time to try just to watch it all be for naught once you fire up career mode.

[bredfan]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Has anyone tested the power of fluid formations? The adherence to it I mean.

Maybe set all players up on the left side of the pitch when they don't have the ball and everyone to the right side when they do?

Then we could figure out how much pull this feature has vs. the built in tactics coding.

FF works like a charm. It'll adhere too whatever you want it to.

I don't usually change the actual formations much, but I adjust where I want players on the field, with and w/o the ball, every game. Sometimes if I'm struggling in a given game, I'll use full formation swaps. Like 4-3-3 w the ball to 4-4-2 w/o etc. I try and avoid going that route though because stamina can become a problem.

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Sure.

I just mean in extreme situations.

Say you select all out defend but you set out of possesion form to put all players on the left.

Which has more influence?

Will they all report to their coded all out defend positions or will they all drop back but on the left side of the pitch?

If tactics are being set without knowing how much certain things affect each other it's rowing upstream

[bredfan]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Sure.

I just mean in extreme situations.

Say you select all out defend but you set out of possesion form to put all players on the left.

Which has more influence?

Will they all report to their coded all out defend positions or will they all drop back but on the left side of the pitch?

If tactics are being set without knowing how much certain things affect each other it's rowing upstream

If I had to guess, I'd say the game wouldn't send everyone left in any case.

I tried to go illogical extreme by having everyone forward even w/o the ball in 2016, and the game wouldn't even let me set it up that way.

So I think it'll still demand reason in order to function correctly. It's still a videogame, after all.

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

FF works like a charm. It'll adhere too whatever you want it to.

I don't usually change the actual formations much, but I adjust where I want players on the field, with and w/o the ball, every game. Sometimes if I'm struggling in a given game, I'll use full formation swaps. Like 4-3-3 w the ball to 4-4-2 w/o etc. I try and avoid going that route though because stamina can become a problem.

I disagree a little. They will follow your "formation" but positioning is somewhat dependant on attack levels. I have tested moving all my mids up to attacking midfielders right on the brink of becoming FW's and they drop back behind the ball. The main influence on positioning is not where you place the players in FF's but what you assign them. The difference between FW and MF is huge while the difference between a CM and DM is also noticeable.

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Im still not sold on the differences in the attack/defend formations with fluid formations, for now.

If im against a great team, i like to feel pressured, on my toes, "forced" to rely more on the long ball and counter, and by turning on fluid formations, i feel the CPU doesn´t pressure me on my own half, which, to me, is crucial in a big team.

What i will try tonight is set a big team, like Man. City, for example, to a high line, pressure and agressive options on and choose tiki taka, offensive fullbacks and gegenpress on the tactics.

Then, i set the exact same tactic for defensive (fluid formations on of course) and only retreat the wingers and mid fielders a bit, but not making them LM or RM...

I think this might get the big teams play a bit better...

If FF is off do you find teams pressing up the pitch higher?

I know this is a bigger deal in this year's game but after watching games this weekend there are only a couple of teams that don't drop back after they lose the ball (Man City and Liverpool). If both of those teams have gegenpress assigned to them in tactics they will use them and it is quite difficult to play against them. I do agree that it is exaggerated in the game but I am willing to deal with it. When I look at the Ball Winning menu I am finding that it looks pretty accurately like the Interceptions and Tackles "chalkboard" on whoscored.com for how many balls are won in each area of the pitch. I will post some pics and such soon.

[bredfan]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

I disagree a little. They will follow your "formation" but positioning is somewhat dependant on attack levels. I have tested moving all my mids up to attacking midfielders right on the brink of becoming FW's and they drop back behind the ball. The main influence on positioning is not where you place the players in FF's but what you assign them. The difference between FW and MF is huge while the difference between a CM and DM is also noticeable.

I generally leave that level at default because it's new this gen and honestly, I forget it's there. LOL

But yeah, that makes sense that it would change your shape depending on where you have it set. That's awesome actually. I'll have to start playing with it.

As for the last point, you're on the money. I've done it with the full backs and FW's before, but never thought of changing a CM to CDM and vice versa w and w/o the ball until I watched your vid. That was a great tip. and literally opened up all sorts of possibilities for me. Especially handy in ML games where you need to rotate tired players.

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Oh wow I like this train of thought.

Ok so this is a simple test. I am at work and can't do it myself until later on tonight.

Make all 3 formations the same but make them all have 2 central mids

When in possession make 1 mid a CAM and keep the other mid CM

When out of possession make both CDM.

See if they stack on O and drop back on D.

Then switch it up and make both CDM on attack and both CAM on defense and see if they actually "disobey" the flow of the game.

[bredfan]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Oh wow I like this train of thought.

Ok so this is a simple test. I am at work and can't do it myself until later on tonight.

Make all 3 formations the same but make them all have 2 central mids

When in possession make 1 mid a CAM and keep the other mid CM

When out of possession make both CDM.

See if they stack on O and drop back on D.

Then switch it up and make both CDM on attack and both CAM on defense and see if they actually "disobey" the flow of the game.

Thing is, you can only change their position based on where they are on the field. It's all relative.

Take a 4-2-3-1. The "2", in their default spots on the field, won't have the CAM option unless you move them up manually in the Game Plan screen. They can only be CMF or CDM.

On the flipside, the "3" won't have the CDM option unless you manually move them back in the game plan. They can only be CAM or CMF.

[phillyfan23]

PES 2017 Tactics

After using dmendenhall's tips for player tactics i edited both brazil and england, it was quite obvious the improvement it made....quick attacks by both me and the cpu became the exception instead of the norm. It was especially nice to see when the cpu hit a "dead end" in their attack and have to reset. I also had to do the same many times because the space is tighter as it should be.

Game finished 0-0, i ( brazil) had 7 shots to england's nine. It was top player , 0 assist game speed -1, and possession ended up 51-49 for england. This was on 20 minutes.




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[PAPERNUT]

Re: PES 2017 Tactics

Great job on your changes dmendenhall_9. They work great.