Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

[redsox4evur]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Figured I would put this here instead of the beautiful game thread because it relates to the Men's team.

But the USWNT is filed a wage action lawsuit against the USSF. The filing, citing figures from the USSF's 2015 financial report, says that despite the women's team generating nearly $20 million more revenue last year than the U.S. men's team, the women are paid almost four times less.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Figured I would put this here instead of the beautiful game thread because it relates to the Men's team.

But the USWNT is filed a wage action lawsuit against the USSF. The filing, citing figures from the USSF's 2015 financial report, says that despite the women's team generating nearly $20 million more revenue last year than the U.S. men's team, the women are paid almost four times less.

Very curious to see how this plays out. They may have very well generated more revenue last year, but obviously they played in the World Cup and the men's team did not.

I saw that they also cited that the USSF projects the women's team to bring in more revenue through team events than the men's team and they're trying to argue that based on that and the fact that the Women's WC Final was the most watched US Soccer game, they should be paid significantly more. This is misleading though because the average viewership for the men's team was much higher in 2014 than it was for the women's team in 2015. People didn't really tune in until the Women's Final, whereas the Men's team was getting 10+ million viewers throughout. And the reason that the women's team is projected to bring in more revenue in team events is because they are hosting roughly 4-5 times more events than the men's team.

It's pretty telling that the men's team brought in 4 times as much revenue in the 2014 WC as the women's team did in 2015 despite the fact that the women's team played more games.

I think the women's team likely deserves a raise, but still shouldn't be paid nearly as much as the men's team.

[Brahvocado]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

I mean, "shouldn't be paid nearly as much kind of sounds harsh". Using TV revenue as the sole criteria on which to pay the national teams is dumb anyway. Soccer, sport in general really, is about results. Based on results, it's the men who don't deserve to be paid more. The women have brought home 3 world cups while our crowning achievement is making the semi's one time back in 1930 when there were what, 8 teams in the tournament?

The women's side of the game is literally the only instance in world soccer history of the US being even remotely relevant. The women's side of the game has done far more to help develop and popularize the sport in the US than the men, and they are also world champions. Hell, the US women's team is maybe one of the most dominant national dynasties in soccer history, men or women. They were still ranked number one in years when they weren't the reigning champions.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

I mean, "shouldn't be paid nearly as much kind of sounds harsh". Using TV revenue as the sole criteria on which to pay the national teams is dumb anyway. Soccer, sport in general really, is about results. Based on results, it's the men who don't deserve to be paid more. The women have brought home 3 world cups while our crowning achievement is making the semi's one time back in 1930 when there were what, 8 teams in the tournament?

The women's side of the game is literally the only instance in world soccer history of the US being even remotely relevant. The women's side of the game has done far more to help develop and popularize the sport in the US than the men, and they are also world champions. Hell, the US women's team is maybe one of the most dominant national dynasties in soccer history, men or women. They were still ranked number one in years when they weren't the reigning champions.

If you actually think what they're paid is based on their relative success rather than how much money they bring in, this conversation just won't go far.

That would be like saying Syracuse should pay their lacrosse coach more than Jim Boeheim because the lacrosse team has won more championships. That doesn't really matter if you aren't bringing in more money.

[ImTellinTim]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

The women should be paid whatever the men are on a per-callup basis or whatever they base it on. Seems like a pretty damn simple fix. Seeing all this stuff by certain media about how the women have generated more revenue in the last year without showing the entire picture is pretty damn disingenuous though. Comparing the entire pictures, the men still bring in more, but the gap isn't gigantic or anything. Part of that comes from the fact that the gap in FIFA's World Cup prize money between the men's and women's competitions is pretty damn sad. The US could be a leader in this aspect, but as usual the higher ups have their heads firmly entrenched in their asses.

[dickey1331]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Does anyone know how much the women make? I agree they should be making more. They basically make nothing when it comes to the domestic US leagues and women's soccer certainly isn't lucrative unless you're a Hope Solo type. Hell even basic MLS players make less than I do.

[elprez98]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Just pay them.

They have been playing their asses off for years now and amongst their peers in the whole of the world, they are some of the best.

I'm not sure how that even be argued against.

[redsox4evur]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Does anyone know how much the women make? I agree they should be making more. They basically make nothing when it comes to the domestic US leagues and women's soccer certainly isn't lucrative unless you're a Hope Solo type. Hell even basic MLS players make less than I do.

I haven't found a salary but there is bonus payments out there. Here's a table outlining them.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/03/31/uswnt-eeoc-wage-discrimination-equal-pay

[Brahvocado]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

If you actually think what they're paid is based on their relative success rather than how much money they bring in, this conversation just won't go far.

That would be like saying Syracuse should pay their lacrosse coach more than Jim Boeheim because the lacrosse team has won more championships. That doesn't really matter if you aren't bringing in more money.

Not really the same thing, college is not professional. In soccer at least, there is still a massive gulf in talent between a good college player and even a lower level professional. I realize the coaches are not in college, but it is still collegiate sports.

The issues here are that
1) they DO bring in enough money to be paid better.
2) they SHOULD be paid at least a little extra based on performance, because again, they are professionals and top level professionals generally get paid based on performance

It's not like they came out of nowhere. Part of their argument is that they have been more or less the best in the world since their inception. The US women's teams have asserted a level of dominance on women's soccer that we have only seen with Spain recently and 1960/70s Brazil on the men's side.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Not really the same thing, college is not professional. In soccer at least, there is still a massive gulf in talent between a good college player and even a lower level professional. I realize the coaches are not in college, but it is still collegiate sports.

The issues here are that
1) they DO bring in enough money to be paid better.
2) they SHOULD be paid at least a little extra based on performance, because again, they are professionals and top level professionals generally get paid based on performance

It's not like they came out of nowhere. Part of their argument is that they have been more or less the best in the world since their inception. The US women's teams have asserted a level of dominance on women's soccer that we have only seen with Spain recently and 1960/70s Brazil on the men's side.

I agree with both point 1 and point 2. 2 already takes place; they receive more money when they do well in the World Cup for example.

But yes, it IS like my example. Sure, the women dominate women's soccer. But women's soccer simply doesn't bring in the same money that men's soccer does, so naturally, people taking part in men's soccer will on average, make more money because there is more available money.

If the stars of the women's team aren't paid top-dollar relative to other women's soccer players, then that's a crime. But if the top women's player is bringing $1 million in revenue to their team and a middle of the pack men's player is bringing $2 million in revenue to their team (just picking random numbers here to illustrate the point), then the middle of the pack men's player should be paid more than the top women's player.

In that sense, it isn't about the gender; it's strictly about the money that they bring in. This isn't the same thing as a male employee and a female employee doing the same job, bringing the same value to the company, and getting paid two different amounts.

I think the numbers most likely back up the women's argument that they should be paid more, but the idea that they should be paid more than men even if there isn't as much money in women's soccer is nonsensical.

[fugazi]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Does anyone know how much the women make? I agree they should be making more. They basically make nothing when it comes to the domestic US leagues and women's soccer certainly isn't lucrative unless you're a Hope Solo type. Hell even basic MLS players make less than I do.

Capitalism gets a lot wrong...but when there's no market, there's no money.

[dickey1331]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Capitalism gets a lot wrong...but when there's no market, there's no money.

Its obvious why the women's domestic leagues don't pay well but the national team has clearly brought in money and they are a hell of a lot better than the men's team.

[Bruins]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Yeah, I saw that chart floating around. You have to keep in mind this is an incomplete picture. This is just one small part of the team's revenues, and it's also heavily slanted towards the women's team for 2017 because the USSF is planning on having the women's team host 20-25 events while the men's team is hosting 4 or 5 and traveling for 4 or 5 (where they get no revenue or very little). On a per home team event basis, the men's team brings in more revenue. They are paid a higher % of that revenue than the women are though.

I think this is likely a case where the women probably deserve more money, but we also need to wait and see the rebuttal. The financials that were released don't breakdown the men's revenue compared to the women's revenue outside of the Team Events and World Cup categories, so it's tough to correctly compare things based on what we currently have. I would guess the other splits will be leaked at some point during the rebuttal.

[dubcity]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

It sounds great to say the women's team has performed better than the men, but let's not pretend the Women's WC is even a blip on the financial radar compared the men. Do they make less as a % of the money they bring in than the men? That would be my question.

They already benefit greatly from how much we spend on the sport when compared to 95% of other countries around the world, with regard to facilities, training equipment, etc. How much money do the Nigerian women make? Probably nothing. At least the USWNT benefit from some endorsement deals.