2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

[Brahvocado]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

I bet Real are regretting selling Morata to Juve now.

I mean obviously because he scored, but he's still not a world beater, still not good enough for a team like Madrid. He's not even remotely close to Benzema in any aspect of being a striker.

Kind of a weird situation because he's clearly talented, just not good enough to be starting striker for a top 3 club.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Side note: I am so glad SAF let Pogba walk.

[jb12780]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Definitely pulling for Juventus.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[dubcity]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Having no reliable backup to Modric really hurt them, especially with Khedeira being out almost all year.

I feel like Modric kind of took over Di Maria's role as being the key to everything. He wouldn't take over a match offensively like Di Maria did, but he was their under-the-radar MVP.

[KG]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

I feel like Modric kind of took over Di Maria's role as being the key to everything. He wouldn't take over a match offensively like Di Maria did, but he was their under-the-radar MVP.

He's the link-up man that helps the attack and probably the best in the world at it. Vs every other team not named Bayern, Barca, and Juve you would get away with it but you saw how quiet Isco was over the 2 legs. He (Isco) is much more comfortable in Rodriguez's role.

It will be interesting to see what outfield players they target. If this is FINALLY the year they get rid of Benzema (which would be stupid IMO) I think they make a run at Aguero.

[spartansocc12]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

I mean obviously because he scored, but he's still not a world beater, still not good enough for a team like Madrid. He's not even remotely close to Benzema in any aspect of being a striker.

Kind of a weird situation because he's clearly talented, just not good enough to be starting striker for a top 3 club.

When given the chance Morata has been pretty fantastic. His hold up play and finishing especially in critical moments have been great for such a young player. Benzema is still a better forward since you can feel his presence more in matches given his ability as a playmaker, but that isn't a slight on Morata. Given how impactful he has been for Spain in his first starts, he has also positioned himself to fight Costa for the starting CF spot.

He is at the right club that will not only allow him to progress in peace, but Juve have proven without a doubt that they are in the same class as the big three. They are just built differently in a two forward system rather than playing in a front three. Someone at the Guardian said it best, Juve are a better version of Chelsea.

[Brahvocado]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

When given the chance Morata has been pretty fantastic. His hold up play and finishing especially in critical moments have been great for such a young player. Benzema is still a better forward since you can feel his presence more in matches given his ability as a playmaker, but that isn't a slight on Morata. Given how impactful he has been for Spain in his first starts, he has also positioned himself to fight Costa for the starting CF spot.

He is at the right club that will not only allow him to progress in peace, but Juve have proven without a doubt that they are in the same class as the big three. They are just built differently in a two forward system rather than playing in a front three. Someone at the Guardian said it best, Juve are a better version of Chelsea.

Juve have done brilliantly, not taking anything away from their CL run, but one good run after years of mediocrity doesn't prove "without a doubt" that they are in the same class as the 3 clubs that have dominated Europe for the better part of a decade. Sadly, it doesn't seem likely that any club will reach that status any time soon. Barca/Bayern/Madrid are still going to be the ultimate destination.

As for Morata, like I said he's talented, but again comparing a good player having a breakout season to a proven world class phenom is silly. Benzema is one of the best strikers on the planet, Morata has quite a ways to go before he is anywhere near that level.

Gotta say though, anybody who describes Juve as "a better version of Chelsea" hasn't seen either of those teams play. The only thing those two teams have in common is that they both play good defense and are hard to score against. It's definitely doing a disservice to Juve since they have a fairly unique style and approach to the game compared to a lot of other top teams.

[spartansocc12]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Juve have done brilliantly, not taking anything away from their CL run, but one good run after years of mediocrity doesn't prove "without a doubt" that they are in the same class as the 3 clubs that have dominated Europe for the better part of a decade. Sadly, it doesn't seem likely that any club will reach that status any time soon. Barca/Bayern/Madrid are still going to be the ultimate destination.

As for Morata, like I said he's talented, but again comparing a good player having a breakout season to a proven world class phenom is silly. Benzema is one of the best strikers on the planet, Morata has quite a ways to go before he is anywhere near that level.

Gotta say though, anybody who describes Juve as "a better version of Chelsea" hasn't seen either of those teams play. The only thing those two teams have in common is that they both play good defense and are hard to score against. It's definitely doing a disservice to Juve since they have a fairly unique style and approach to the game compared to a lot of other top teams.

This hasn't been one good run though. Two years ago in the CL 2012/13, Juve won their group over Chelsea and Shaktar beating Chelsea 3-0 in Turin. They then easily progressed to the QF where they were beaten by the eventual champions in Heynckes' Bayern 4-0. That same Bayern team went on to win 7-0 over what was a limited, injured Barca. At that point it was understood that Juve weren't to far away from where they are now. They lacked a genuine goal scorer upfront. Tevez, Llorente, and Morata came in to fill that.

If anything their 2013/14 CL elimination in the group stage was a bit of a fluke. After playing to intense even games vs Real, they were left with needing a tie in Turkey vs Galatasaray. After 40 minutes the game was cancelled due to snow and replayed the next day on an atrocious pitch. Moreover, it was clearly evident that the side Juve would attack in the second half was in much worse condition than the one Gala would. Although Juve shouldn't have ever put themselves in that position, that game was ridiculous. It was compounded with Pirlo being out as well. So Gala score with 3 minutes left and eliminate Juve.

Then factor in Juve have won 4 league titles in a row. Say what you will about Serie A, but that is incredibly impressive given they beat out Ibra/Thiago lead Milan in their first year and that Napoli side lead by Cavani that eliminated City in their CL group stage only narrowly losing to Chelsea. That dominance is made more legitimate given their QF and final CL run in the last two years. So perhaps you are right to suggest that they aren't yet at the level of consistency as the top 3 and perhaps may need to refresh the squad to do so in the years to come, but without a doubt they are just below them ahead of Chelsea, PSG, City, Atleti etc. So I absolutely disagree with your statement that Juve have been anything close to experiencing years of mediocrity! This group was formed 4/5 years ago and brought the club to the level it is now. Before then, they were worse than mediocre!

I agree with you when it comes to Morata. He is certainly not WC in the way Benz is. Benz is a fantastic player. Morata is in that next group of guys with not only tons of potential but is at a very good level at the moment. He was vital to Spain's U21 team and is set to be with their senior side. Morata will battle Costa for that spot.

Juve are a better version of Chelsea in that they equally defend well (Juve, Chelsea, Atleti are all on par with each other in this respect) but Juve at the moment have the better players at least slightly. Moreover, Juve has shown to be incredibly versatile tactically playing in a 3-5-2 for 3 years but this year able to change into a 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, 3-5-2 depending on the opponent and game situation. It's funny because in Italy they aren't a "defensive" team! Teams are usually afraid to attack them because if Juve score they game is likely over for many of those teams. It is in Europe where Conte wanted to dominate games in this manner where the CL requires playing in a restrained counterattacking way when needed. Even Barca this year don't expose themselves the whole game with a highline. Their counterattack is their most lethal weapon. Juve must take that away and hope individual players win their duels especially upfront.

A historic Barca could be too much for them, but Juve could be the type of team that might play the best game possible to eliminate them.

[Brahvocado]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Juve were a team consistently making it to the semi's and beyond, so to not reach a semi for that many years is definitely pretty bad for a team of their stature.

Also, Juve are a fantastic team, but you really can't use their league form as anything wholly representative. Definitely the overall quality of Serie A is greatly underrated, definitely not as bad as people claim. However, Juve simply has zero competition, it's not even arguable. I'm not taking away from them, it's very impressive to win 4 in a row like that, but you can't discount the quality of their competition. They are capitalizing on a Serie A with two very poor Milan teams, and a Napoli and Roma who are impossible bottlers. It's the exact same scenario that Inter was in a while back, yes they deserve credit for winning that many titles in a row but you can't discount that there were zero teams capable of consistent sustainable title challenges. The overall league may not be poor, but the quality of title challengers definitely is. Only 3 clubs in Serie A have shown capable of consistent title challenges in the last 20 years, and two of them right now are midtable quality, it was the same with Inter as well.

Morata definitely has all the tools for becoming a monster striker though, I agree. With Spain though, he will have more competition than just Costa, there are a few Spanish strikers his age or younger that are also going to be fantastic (Alcacer is arguably better already). Not that it will matter if Keita can find his feet as a striker, that kid is a future top 5 player.

[spartansocc12]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Juve were a team consistently making it to the semi's and beyond, so to not reach a semi for that many years is definitely pretty bad for a team of their stature.

Also, Juve are a fantastic team, but you really can't use their league form as anything wholly representative. Definitely the overall quality of Serie A is greatly underrated, definitely not as bad as people claim. However, Juve simply has zero competition, it's not even arguable. I'm not taking away from them, it's very impressive to win 4 in a row like that, but you can't discount the quality of their competition. They are capitalizing on a Serie A with two very poor Milan teams, and a Napoli and Roma who are impossible bottlers. It's the exact same scenario that Inter was in a while back, yes they deserve credit for winning that many titles in a row but you can't discount that there were zero teams capable of consistent sustainable title challenges. The overall league may not be poor, but the quality of title challengers definitely is. Only 3 clubs in Serie A have shown capable of consistent title challenges in the last 20 years, and two of them right now are midtable quality, it was the same with Inter as well.

Morata definitely has all the tools for becoming a monster striker though, I agree. With Spain though, he will have more competition than just Costa, there are a few Spanish strikers his age or younger that are also going to be fantastic (Alcacer is arguably better already). Not that it will matter if Keita can find his feet as a striker, that kid is a future top 5 player.

I think your analysis of the current state of Serie A is spot on. Only in Juve's first year was Allegri's Milan a contender where they were leading in the table for a good chunk of the year. The Milan sides are as you describe where as Napoli possess more than enough talent to cause trouble but their attitude is bewildering at times. Just look how they went out in CL qualification. After leading the tie late vs Bilbao, they completely collapsed in the last 20 minutes. The EL is another example where they dismantle Wolfsburg only to lose to Dnipro albeit controversially. Higuain is a perfect striker for them. Incredibly talented and his build up play is insanely good and his finishing clinical... until a tie or game of importance is on the line (he did win Real a league title with a last minute goal though if I recall correctly). I usually dislike to call players chokers, but that really does apply to him.

Roma were fantastic last year, but selling Benatia and having Castan hurt all year killed their defense. Also not having a goal scorer is an issue. Psychologically they were never the same after the Bayern beating. Prior to that they were on a long winning run where they destroyed Moscow and really outplayed City in a 1-1 draw away.

So if Juve were winning titles in Serie A it would be one thing, but they are dominant. They broke the points record and had an unbeaten year. They might not have a real challenger, but that is impressive for it's consistency. Under Conte it actually sort of cost them as they would barely rotate playing their all their starters vs a midtable team before a CL match. Allegri gives confidence to their squad but he also has one with more depth with Llorente, Sturaro, Pereyra, Barzagli, Ogbonna, Caceres, Asamoah (not so this year with that injury) on his bench. Not bad!

So although Juve have great history with 8 CL finals, what happened to them was very traumatic. They lost so many key players, got crushed financially, had a crap stadium, had an aging team. However, this group of players (Pirlo, Vidal, Bonucci, Pogba, Tevez era) has been right there. They have played in 3 CL campaigns and made it to the QF and final. With all that said, the squad needs to progressively be refreshed and their management has done so where they usually bring in a veteran that has won big titles while bringing in quality youth at each transfer window. With Dybala almost done and Rugani set to come next year they will gain the one of if not the best Argentina attacking youth player and the best young Italian defender after bring in Sturaro who is consider the next Gattuso. Although I feel that for many players this CL is the culmination of a 4/5 year project, Juve's future is very bright.

Also it's good for Europe for the big three to get broken up. It's been too redundant.

Juve, Chelsea, PSG, Atleti are all very real challengers that I hope keep progressing to make the European landscape a little less predictable. I have to feel that one genuine challenger in Italy will arise and Man United will eventually figure it out and get to where they usually are historically. That will be amplified once the Messi/Ronaldo era ends. A more wide open Europe is better at this point.

[Brahvocado]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Roma are the original Napoli, they are masterclass bottlers. Both clubs just have an almost comical lack of a winning mentality, any important match is almost guaranteed shenanigans.

As for new challengers, it's looking like it will probably be Inter. Even now, the two Milan clubs are the only ones with a history and general culture/mentality of the kind of ruthless consistency you need to win titles. Inter seems closer to turning around their clown college than Milan is.

[dubcity]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Roma are the original Napoli, they are masterclass bottlers. Both clubs just have an almost comical lack of a winning mentality, any important match is almost guaranteed shenanigans.

But they will continue to get tons of media attention and hype, particularly here in North America, because their prez is American. It was a pretty embarrassing year for them, though. Huge step back.

[KG]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

But they will continue to get tons of media attention and hype, particularly here in North America, because their prez is American. It was a pretty embarrassing year for them, though. Huge step back.

Far from embarrassing Dub. They finished 2nd with a very small squad that was hit by a lot of key injuries. Just off the top of my head:

Strootman
Maicon
Torosidis
De Rossi
Keita
Totti
Iturbe

all of them missed significant time and when you consider how starved they were for goals finishing 2nd wasn't bad at all IMO. You gotta factor in too that their best CB was snatched away right before the start of the season. It's disappointing compared to Rudi's 1st year there but when you break it down the results aren't that bad.

[dubcity]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

True, but most of those guys played in about as many games as they've averaged for the last few years. Bad player acquisitions, age and poor form are mostly to blame, in my eyes. Then again, that could describe most teams in the Serie A this season.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: 2014-2015 UEFA Champions League Thread

Wait, Messi has a tattoo sleeve now?