The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Fulham into the playoff finals, that Sessegnon kid looks like the real deal

[stevostl]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Of course it’s not all luck, but there is far more luck involved in winning the CL than say a league title, just because of the knockout format.

I agree

You can’t really say City doesn’t win due to lack of history though. We didn’t have any history of dominating in Europe either, and when Roman bought us we immediately started stomping teams out. By the time we won it in 2012 we had already been to 5 semifinals and 1 CL Final training match as unfortunately the final that year had been canceled. We didn’t have much history, but we sure did make a lot of it in the past two decades.

I can't? Man City and PSG are fairly new to being apart of the European elite. you should understand this as well as you saw it with Chelea during their greatest era under mourinho... even though Chelsea by far back then when they were first in Europe in those early years.. 2005 for example they were by far one of the best teams in the world at that time but still fairly new to Europe. it took them awhile to finally get to that final.. but it took them prior years to build up to that... to when they finally got to that first final in 2008 even although they have one of the best team in europe long before that. PSG and CIty are going through that same very process right now.

Also a bit disingenuous to say Liverpool must be lucky a lot, since you’ve only won it once in any sort of relevant time period. If history played such a big role, then the semifinals would just be Real Madrid, Liverpool, Milan and Barca every year.

really.. how so ? since 2005..Liverpool has been a part of the Champions League competition only 8 times. including this season.. In those 8 years they have been to 3 finals.. and 4 semi finals . I would say that a pretty good record in Europe and say that's pretty lucky don't you think? to be in the semi finals in half of the years they even were in the competition since 2005?

And anyway, my comment wasn’t about this season hahaha. I was referencing Istanbul, figured Liverpool fans of all people would be able to comment about how luck can play a big role in a CL win.

I know.. I just love the banter and I'm being defensive like normal. No one can convince of it being lucky. I see it more as fate and destiny type of thing than that.. especially in 2005 being down 3 - 0 at half time against Milan and still coming back to win. to me that is not luck.. especially against AC Milan who was a team full of super stars at that time that should of killed us. I also don't believe in luck even though we got that ghost goal against Chelsea in 2005.. again we beat chelea in 2005 semi final when chelsea was one of the best teams in the world.. and again beat them in 2007 semi final.. when they were easily one of the best teams in the world. the reason Liverpool were able to get past them is because of their history and fans... not luck. it's one of the very reasons I fell in love with Liverpool and are my addiction

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I agree



I can't? Man City and PSG are fairly new to being apart of the European elite. you should understand this as well as you saw it with Chelea during their greatest era under mourinho... even though Chelsea by far back then when they were first in Europe in those early years.. 2005 for example they were by far one of the best teams in the world at that time but still fairly new to Europe. it took them awhile to finally get to that final.. but it took them prior years to build up to that... to when they finally got to that first final in 2008 even although they have one of the best team in europe long before that. PSG and CIty are going through that same very process right now.



really.. how so ? since 2005..Liverpool has been a part of the Champions League competition only 8 times. including this season.. In those 8 years they have been to 3 finals.. and 4 semi finals . I would say that a pretty good record in Europe and say that's pretty lucky don't you think? to be in the semi finals in half of the years they even were in the competition since 2005?



I know.. I just love the banter and I'm being defensive like normal. No one can convince of it being lucky. I see it more as fate and destiny type of thing than that.. especially in 2005 being down 3 - 0 at half time against Milan and still coming back to win. to me that is not luck.. especially against AC Milan who was a team full of super stars at that time that should of killed us. I also don't believe in luck even though we got that ghost goal against Chelsea in 2005.. again we beat chelea in 2005 semi final when chelsea was one of the best teams in the world.. and again beat them in 2007 semi final.. when they were easily one of the best teams in the world. the reason Liverpool were able to get past them is because of their history and fans... not luck. it's one of the very reasons I fell in love with Liverpool and are my addiction

I interpreted the "we must get lucky a lot" comment to be purely relating to your CL trophies, so I guess I interpreted that incorrectly.

Anyway I agree for the most part with what you said, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the luck thing. There is a saying about success being equal parts skill, effort and luck, and that you need all three but most successful people refuse to acknowledge the luck part, because they think it detracts from the other two.

A good example is getting a job. You might be fully qualified and gave a great interview, but you could also have been lucky to get the right interviewer that connects with you. How many great athletes/actors/singers etc. were discovered purely on coincidence that turned out to be fantastic?

It was an incredible performance in Instanbul by Liverpool, but also a bit of luck that one of the best teams of the 2000s decided to collectively bottle a 3-0 lead, or that half a Liverpool team who didn't belong anywhere near a CL-level team had the game of their lives. Luck plays a role in success, even if people don't like to admit it. It's crazy to me that you'd say that, even my own friends and family members who are extra obnoxious Liverpool supporters wouldn't say 2005 had no elements of luck.

Also, our two semifinal ties vs you were far too close to say you "got past us because of your history and fans", that's nonsense. You got past us through a penalty shootout that we've proven several times is not our forte, and one of the most controversial goals in the CL era.

If anything, the only aspect "history and fans" plays a key role in would be the refereeing.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Fulham into the playoff finals, that Sessegnon kid looks like the real deal

Spurs have been linked with him the last two windows and again this window. He's the main player I want them to sign, I don't care if he's young and still needs to develop. I think he's going to be a great player.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Salah FC - a team consisting of Liverpool but only Salah goals count is something someone on the LFC reddit started earlier this season. The results are in:



Salah FC qualifies for the Europa League and finishes above the Ev.

Spoiler

[Altimus]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

That is pretty damn impressive and sad at the same time.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Yeah, below 7th the past two years has been absolute caca.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I mean, the fact that Everton managed an 8th place finish despite awful results and some of the worst football in England tells you a lot about the teams below them.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I mean, the fact that Everton managed an 8th place finish despite awful results and some of the worst football in England tells you a lot about the teams below them.

They have to be the worst 8th place team in the EPL era right? At least in the conversation.

They are closer in points (and MUCH closer in general performance) to 20th than 5th.

[dubcity]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

They have to be the worst 8th place team in the EPL era right? At least in the conversation.

They are closer in points (and MUCH closer in general performance) to 20th than 5th.

Lol. 8th place is still 8th place, regardless of points and performance. Same way a 4th place season is a 4th place season, regardless of how far you go in the UCL.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

They have to be the worst 8th place team in the EPL era right? At least in the conversation.

They are closer in points (and MUCH closer in general performance) to 20th than 5th.

Just did a quick check, so Everton ended with 44 goals scored and 49 points with -14 GD.

Last season Southampton was just as bad basically, but their defense was better. Before that you would have to go back to 12/13 for 8th place finishing with less than 50 points (West Brom), and 11/12 for 8th place finishing with less than 50 goals (Liverpool).

The whole package though, of such low goals scored, high goals conceded and low point total. I got as far back as the 05/06 season before I got bored, but hadn't yet found one that matched Everton's 17/18 season.

So yes, your hunch was correct. At the very least, they are in the conversation for worst-ever 8th place team.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Lol. 8th place is still 8th place, regardless of points and performance. Same way a 4th place season is a 4th place season, regardless of how far you go in the UCL.

Yeah, I think I'll be perfectly happy with this season regardless of the result of the Champions League final.

It sure beats blowing a load declaring ourselves the summer transfer window champions and then being about 10x worse than the season before.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Just did a quick check, so Everton ended with 44 goals scored and 49 points with -14 GD.



Last season Southampton was just as bad basically, but their defense was better. Before that you would have to go back to 12/13 for 8th place finishing with less than 50 points (West Brom), and 11/12 for 8th place finishing with less than 50 goals (Liverpool).



The whole package though, of such low goals scored, high goals conceded and low point total. I got as far back as the 05/06 season before I got bored, but hadn't yet found one that matched Everton's 17/18 season.



So yes, your hunch was correct. At the very least, they are in the conversation for worst-ever 8th place team.

The fun thing about that 11/12 Liverpool 8th place finish is that Everton finished 7th, but Liverpool promptly stole their Europa League spot because they won the League Cup. But holy crap, were those years awful.

[bhurst99]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I was actually wondering if it's the first time only six of the 20 clubs scored more goals than they allowed. I looked back a few years and there were a couple times when only seven clubs had scored more than they allowed but this might be the first time just six teams have done it. That just illustrates how terrible things are even in mid-table.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

TV/Prize payouts for this year.

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/997084571345793024

No wonder they got rid of parachute payments.