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Concerns: Madden/Tiburon Motion Capture Process and Problems??

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Old 07-03-2014, 02:53 PM   #1
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Concerns: Madden/Tiburon Motion Capture Process and Problems??

Decided to do a separate thread dealing specifically with motion captures and team Tiburon. Didn't want to further derail a thread so doing a completely separate thread dealing with motion capture only. I am also quoting any users that chimed in on Madden's animation and motion capture.

I hope this thread stays active with inputs and further discussions about motion capture, its process, advantages and disadvantages, and how it translates into what we see in a video game.

Thread came about from the following thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2046363963



Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
The issue with in studio motion capture seems to steam from the poor directing, and the fact that it differs from real game adrenaline infused performance.

@3:02 mark "... and then Eldon will look at the data after it's been capture and he can clean it up. When he's done, he'll send the data off to the game team and they'll put it on the model ... " Not exactly sure what his definition of "clean it up" is.

@2:31 mark: One of the motion capture director does a QB drop back "bounce" in place. Very robotic scripted "bounce." This "bounce" is frequently seen in Madden's QB, but I have never really seen it in a real life game. This Madden bounce lacks a real purpose. I have included video highlights of both Drew Brees and Russell Wilson below. Take notice of their drop back bounces in the pocket.

@2:57 mark: Not sure why they would motion capture a slowed down version of a play action pass (hand off)

@3:24 mark: Not exactly sure what that is suppose to depict. Either a possible reception or an interception, but that particular "jump towards the ball" motion capture doesn't represent anything I have seen in a real life game. I think it's what's seen during a swat in Madden. It looks poorly scripted, and poorly executed by the motion capture artist.






Notice how the QB "bounce" in the pocket (e.g. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees) has real purpose unlike the Madden's motion captured or directed QB "bounce." Madden's QB "bounce" looks to be aesthetics only with no real purpose.







Quote:
Originally Posted by dghustla
I don't know any of the technical side of MoCapping but is it possible to MoCap from a video or map out animations from video?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother3Wright
"MoCap" no, but you can rotoscope from video reference. And just for general consumption, good MoCap is always touched up by animators. MoCap is just a good base to start from, but there's still issues that need to be resolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
Word!!!

When I 1st saw this vid, I realized why the animations are so bad. No determination, no struggle. The animations are too scripted. "OK, let's get a pancack animation. Go!" So the guy getting pancaked provides no resistance. They should instead let guys battle and record what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageInfinite
Dope post. Another big problem with the mo-cap as you stated, the direction and talent. Add that with the bad implementation, you get the mess we have today. Doesn't look to be changing either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother3Wright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOzChtcqBRk

With any motion capture you're always going to have inconsistencies between what the motion from the actor was, and what the rig actually recorded. Things like fingers don't get recorded. Forearm rotation, depending on the complexity of your rig can be limited. The way the head moves on a neck is something that's very easy to make look unnatrual from mocap, it can look like the head is "floating" above the shoulders with the neck just skin that connects them.

MoCap also tends to create small little movements that create a stutter, or shake to the animation. As an animator I want clean, easily read movements that have a sense of real weight to them. MoCap can give me a base for this movement, but the stutters it creates need to be edited out to give a cleaner more natural look to the movement.

Animations also have to be retargeted to work with the model rigs you're using like in the video above. Doing this can warp your model if it isn't weighted correctly, or applied correctly.

These are just a couple examples, but what most people think of as "MoCap" is not an end-all be-all for animation. It's one tool that can help dramatically speed up the animation process, but still needs a lot of work after to get a finished, polished product.
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Last edited by strawberryshortcake; 07-03-2014 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:57 PM   #2
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Re: Concerns: Madden/Tiburon Motion Capture Process and Problems??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother3Wright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOzChtcqBRk



With any motion capture you're always going to have inconsistencies between what the motion from the actor was, and what the rig actually recorded. Things like fingers don't get recorded. Forearm rotation, depending on the complexity of your rig can be limited. The way the head moves on a neck is something that's very easy to make look unnatrual from mocap, it can look like the head is "floating" above the shoulders with the neck just skin that connects them.

MoCap also tends to create small little movements that create a stutter, or shake to the animation. As an animator I want clean, easily read movements that have a sense of real weight to them. MoCap can give me a base for this movement, but the stutters it creates need to be edited out to give a cleaner more natural look to the movement.

Animations also have to be retargeted to work with the model rigs you're using like in the video above. Doing this can warp your model if it isn't weighted correctly, or applied correctly.

These are just a couple examples, but what most people think of as "MoCap" is not an end-all be-all for animation. It's one tool that can help dramatically speed up the animation process, but still needs a lot of work after to get a finished, polished product.



@9:30 mark
- manipulating fingers of 3D model

@10:30 mark - manipulating body/arm position of 3D model

Only able to watch up to the 12:00 minute mark because I've got to go to work. The entire video is about 40 minutes. Very informative from what I have seen. And I will watch the rest when I return, or have time.

What's concerning from what I just watched is the use of manipulation techniques to modify the original motion capture animation. Sure more time and effort would be required to re-mo-cap another desired animation sequence, but I think this "manipulation" process might be the issue with Madden's animations.

By "clean up," if manipulating body's arm and leg position, and selecting "key frames" to fit a desired animation outcome or sequence, along with the "thought" process of "how" it should look in the minds of the manipulating artist could very well be the crux of Madden's animation problems.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:19 PM   #3
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Re: Concerns: Madden/Tiburon Motion Capture Process and Problems??

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