PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

[jmurphy31]

Last night I was reading Ian's Twitter Question to Pastapadre about which would he prefer to see in the game. Whether they should look to out in suprise onside kicks or better Play Action. He said both take up a ton of time and he could only pick one (Pasta that is). Im not saying they wont put both on but for the question asked it seemed like only one would get in...Which would you guys choose?

I would go with better PA...

BTW, I cant believe they couldnt get both in the game

[JaymeeAwesome]

Better playaction would be my choice, surprise onside kicks would end up being cheesed all the time online.

[BezO]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

Both. There's too much wrong with this game to be choosing.

I can't see how a surprise onside kick is anything more than an onside kick from the normal kick-off formation. If that's a big fix, no wonder this game is so far behind.

This game is very rigid. At some point, they have to make the decision to scrap it and build better, more flexible engines. At this rate, we'll have a realistic game by 2021, maybe.

[Palo20]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

Play Action. This is about 25-30% of some teams' passing game. The surprise onside happens a few times per year.

They need different types of play action fakes with varying degrees of the fake:

1. Deep Ball Fake, Trying to get the ball downfield.
2. Open Hand Fake
3. QB just turns toward the RB, more of a token fake.

Defense should react accordingly. The deep ball fake should cause more deception for the defense, while the "token" fake might only move a LB one quick step.

--Also, Play Action pass animations should be faster, especially if they add my ideas about the "Open Hand" and the "Token" fake. These are usually quicker hitting passes. The QB stays in the animation way too long for some pass plays.

--The Play Action on WR Screen passes needs to be much faster. Also EVERY team should have some form of this play in their playbook. It's not an NFL staple. The QB stays in the animation way too long for some pass plays.

--Different types of Draw plays need to be added. These are a staple of the Cowboys' playbook. There are examples at the end of this video:

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=480 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/UxvL_oF1Df4?fs=1&hl=en_US allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

[JaymeeAwesome]

Both. There's too much wrong with this game to be choosing.

I can't see how a surprise onside kick is anything more than an onside kick from the normal kick-off formation. If that's a big fix, no wonder this game is so far behind.

This game is very rigid. At some point, they have to make the decision to scrap it and build better, more flexible engines. At this rate, we'll have a realistic game by 2021, maybe.

With accusations like this I'm guessing you program video games for a living, because being so bold with no credentials to back it up doesn't make you look smart at all.

[BezO]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

With accusations like this I'm guessing you program video games for a living, because being so bold with no credentials to back it up doesn't make you look smart at all.

Just a fan, not a programmer. Neither am I trying to show how smart I am. I thought, "I cant see..." and "If that's a big fix..." implied that. But thank you for your observation & attention. Send your persnal flames in a private message next time. Thanks.

[ryan36]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

Knock it off. And I think is indicative of Madden in general...whatever they've got, it seems to be impossible to change.

[jmurphy31]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

And I think is indicative of Madden in general...whatever they've got, it seems to be impossible to change.

Not sure why it is so hard for Madden to change from year to year, when all other sports games tend to (even at EA)...Im not a programmer but, it seems if other companies can, not sure why a larger one like EA cant...

On a side note...Ryan36...The picture and heading under is pretty funny...

[canes21]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

Not a programmer or anything, but how can they not fix both these issues in 10 months?

[PlatooN]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

a real working PA...where less aware defensive players actually bite hard

i'm pretty sure it's just cosmetic atm.

[huskerwr38]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

this is what Ian Cummings said as to why they both can't be added in this year.

@pastapadre both require new CPU AI, new animations & mocap, and playbook support...very similar in dev cost.

But the question is...and I may be reading in between the lines here, but to me this is blatantly asking, do playaction passes have ANY effect on the game right now? We have play action passes in game, but Ian Cummings is basically asking do we want play action passes that actually work or a gimmick in game?

[canes21]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

I still don't understand how they can't get both in the game in 8-10 months.A surprised onside kick doesn't seem to be a very very difficult thing to add, and getting the defense to react to a fake hand off should already be influenced based on ratings, but apparently it is not.

[frankrizzo380]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

man, y would this even be up for discussion? i thought if it's in the game, it's in the game?

[Palo20]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

this is what Ian Cummings said as to why they both can't be added in this year.



But the question is...and I may be reading in between the lines here, but to me this is blatantly asking, do playaction passes have ANY effect on the game right now? We have play action passes in game, but Ian Cummings is basically asking do we want play action passes that actually work or a gimmick in game?

I don't think he's saying it doesn't work properly, but I'm pretty sure any time they add "new" plays to the game, they have to account for the CPU AI to make sure it works properly, especially on the opposite side of the ball, and that takes time. I think thats why we see so many recycled plays in all of the playbooks every year. Every new play takes a lot of testing time.

AI differences are actually pretty noticeable on some of the team specific plays. Last year, the Wildcat is very successful (before one of the patches), because the run blocking just seemed to dominate the defense every time. I've noticed some of the plays in the Patriots' (and now Broncos) playbook have different route combinations that either work very well against the AI and other routes that don't work at all. The ones that work well seem to make the AI react differently than they normally would. Hope this makes sense.

[ugotjackdup]

Re: PA Pass vs Surprise Onside Kick

This should really be a no brainer I think. PA passes are used countless times every Sunday. The surprise onside kick isn't used nearly as often. If the Saints didn't do it in the Super Bowl, I don't even see this being a question.

Imagine the cheeser nightmare it could bring up if the kick wasn't programmed perfectly as well.