Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

[RLaguna]

Its been really getting on my nerves how there is a lack of solid immersiveness to the gameplay in Madden 13. I really thought that the Infinite Physics Engine was supposed to open up a whole new dynamic of organic and varied gameplay.

I just dont think its happening

What I feel I am getting is the same linear on rails feel as all previous versions that lead to very predictable results ....up until the actual contact is made between the players. Then you get this new physics engine kicking in to basically add a little distorted looking variety in the way a leg, arm or body overlays across another. But in no way do I feel it actually even alters the the outcome due to its physics nature. At least thats the way I feel.

But to add even further frustration, I would actually be willing to live with this if the impacts and tackles actually gave you that ommmphh level of oh yeahhhH satisfaction of actually being down in the trenches. But what Im getting is 80% of the contact and tackles looking like some strange distorted version of grenade physics that have players making contact and just exploding or ricocheting off of each other while rolling in different directions as the ball carrier lays like a snow angel staring up at the heavens at the end of the play! COme on!

I have been watching the games all over the RED ZONE channel today to take mental notes and 90% of the hits and tackles are players wrapping up around the waist, shoulders and even legs while another player comes in and finishes in many instances. Defenders are WRAPPING up their tackles and taking the ball carriers down to the ground while engaged.....They are not exploding and richochetting and doing barrel rolls off of the tackles. Players are chugging, driving their legs and pushing forward for extra yardage while the defenders are dragging and holding on, both players trying to use their strength to push the play.

Another thing that I just cannot stomach anymore is the way CPU running backs run into open holes and even out into daylight in a continuous hunchbacked crouch!?.....COme on what is this!?....When in the NFL does this ever happen?? The proper use of this animation should be only as the player approaches a tight hole and is bracing for impact. And this should only happen at the split second before the hit to lower the head and surge forward to take on the hit. It should not be happening as a rb sweeps around the line or even hits a hole that is wide open.

EA please watch some Live games and take notes....this looks absolutely horrible and makes the game feel very unpolished. Its really making me seriously consider trading this game in for NCAA 13. I really may want to actually settle for the more polished and finely tuned scripted animations than deal with this ugliness. Because quite frankly, the level of dynamic play that this touted physics engine adds to the gameplay is very overstated

Maybe Im incorrect, but this is the way Im really feeling at this point.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

First off, I applaud the addition of physics based tackling being included in the game. Just as you do, I feel this is just an added demention to the end of plays, rather than a compete game changing system.

After hours of playing Madden, I can say in all honesty the engine has done far more damage than good.

To look at this in a mature fashion, let's forgo the tripping and falling after plays. Because it doesn't effect the gameplay.

The physics have essentially killed the inside ground game. The collisions with your own lineman creates unpredictable and inconstant responses. It's to the point where 4th and inches runs are not a reasonable approach to getting a first down.

Secondly, the engine seems to focus more on creating big hits than fundamental tackles. On a Sunday, 90% of tackles will involve the arms of a defender. In Madden, that number may be as low a 5%. Apart from that, arms of players on the defensive line have zero impact on closing running lanes or slowing a players progress through the line.

The addition of physics could have added to the game had it been a final piece to the puzzle. Instead it's seemingly gluing a puzzle up and framing it, only to hope once its hung nobody will see several pieces are missing.

[roadman]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

It's no excuse, but the physics engine was put into place in January.

It appears they are taking the approach of FIFA and NHL in their approach to physics.

Both of them have been rolling out the physics over a three year period.

The new president of both football titles came from FIFA.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

First off, I applaud the addition of physics based tackling being included in the game. Just as you do, I feel this is just an added demention to the end of plays, rather than a compete game changing system.

After hours of playing Madden, I can say in all honesty the engine has done far more damage than good.

To look at this in a mature fashion, let's forgo the tripping and falling after plays. Because it doesn't effect the gameplay.

The physics have essentially killed the inside ground game. The collisions with your own lineman creates unpredictable and inconstant responses. It's to the point where 4th and inches runs are not a reasonable approach to getting a first down.

Secondly, the engine seems to focus more on creating big hits than fundamental tackles. On a Sunday, 90% of tackles will involve the arms of a defender. In Madden, that number may be as low a 5%. Apart from that, arms of players on the defensive line have zero impact on closing running lanes or slowing a players progress through the line.

The addition of physics could have added to the game had it been a final piece to the puzzle. Instead it's seemingly gluing a puzzle up and framing it, only to hope once its hung nobody will see several pieces are missing.

To piggyback on this - I can appreciate them attempting this at this stage for sure. However, it's not well done at all. The physics are completely aesthetic and they look bad at that. I constantly see guys being tripped or about to fall down and magically become upright and regain their balance. I had a run the other day on a 3rd and 1 where I rant into the back of my center and exploded backwards 5 yards. Really? It's laughable at this point, but oh well.

I had said this back in May and I'll say it again. A physics engine is nice, but it's not going to fix this game and it hasn't. The player movements are terrible (still) and the interactions and AI are horrid. The worst of any of the top sports games by a mile. I think TIburon should take Madden on this generation of consoles out back and shoot it. It's a bad product that has a bunch of legacy fans jumping through a million hoops to convince themselves that they love it. That's the reason why you get the folks who lash out at others who are pushing for a much better game. The on field gameplay is really lacking that refinement and polish of other games in the past and that is very telling. Tiburon would be better suited to figure out how to get the actual "football" interactions in their football game before adding the icing on the cake (physics engine).

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

I definitely feel where you are coming from OP with regard to what the IE currently is. I am hope that this is just a first level of IE and they plan on building on it way more next year but of course given Madden's track record, we can't be sure.

To give an example of those moments that still seems scripted and just have the IE making it look more physics(sy), every game I see receivers and defenders jumping in the air to make catches/INTs, colliding in the air with other players BUT still managing to land on their feet. I even had a play where my CB actually got tangled up with a receiver after a jumping catch and the receiver still manages to stay balanced without putting down a hand to balance himself, it looked unrealistic. I think we all have seen ball carriers "limbo", where they bend way back almost to the ground from a hit or collision, yet stay upright as if they are Reed Richards (look it up, lol)

Now in defense to the IE, I think it can be something special to bring a football game to life like never before. The issue, in my layman judgement is, they have stated that the IE adds physics to existing animations and it's painfully obvious the animations in Madden are lacking. There is not enough of them to account for replicating football processes and it makes common sense that the IE can only be as good as the animations available to it. This is why so many people where perplexed with the decision to implement IE ahead of addressing so many of the fundamental animation deficiencies for replicating football properly.

That said, the decision has already been made, so next year, I don't see how they can ignore the lack of animations in all applicable football aspects again. So in a nutshell, imo, I think it's the legacy issue of lacking animations that is holding back this new tech, not that the tech is a waste or should be removed.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

It's no excuse, but the physics engine was put into place in January.

It appears they are taking the approach of FIFA and NHL in their approach to physics.

Both of them have been rolling out the physics over a three year period.

The new president of both football titles came from FIFA.

I really want this to be the case and it likely may be the intent but it seems to me that those games may have had a better foundation to accomplish this then Madden. Meaning, I haven't played either so does anyone know if in year one of the three year plan for FIFA and NHL, those games were as lacking fundamentally as Madden is? I mean that as a serious question because if those games where able to completely go from ish to sugar using this three year model, then that bodes well for Madden but if Madden is far more fundamentally FUBAR than those games, like I think, then it seems to me this three year plan is more about the Madden on the new consoles than the current ones.

[siouxredskins]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

maybe you guys just need to slow down and find holes ?
the game plays at a slower pace, you just need to stop ramming into things and find the holes. and when <triangle> its needed, the triangle button is beautiful to look at this year. ( i mean jumping over stuff looks better and makes more sense )</triangle>

whats frustrating is..it appeears kids are learning how to use the right stick and never lose balance and makes tackling them a hassle LOL

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

maybe you guys just need to slow down and find holes ?
the game plays at a slower pace, you just need to stop ramming into things and find the holes. and when <triangle> is needed, its beautiful to look at this year.

whats frustrating is..it appeears kids are learning how to use the right stick and never lose balance and makes tackling them a hassle LOL

Once again, someone is confusing "success rates" with proper animations and realism. Who said anything about success finding holes? Everyone posting here can find the holes to run through. I liked the fact that I got bumped into my center, but I didn't like the fact that I exploded away from him 5 yards. The animation sequence does not fit the context of the interaction.
</triangle>

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

maybe you guys just need to slow down and find holes ?
the game plays at a slower pace, you just need to stop ramming into things and find the holes. and when <triangle> is needed, its beautiful to look at this year.

whats frustrating is..it appeears kids are learning how to use the right stick and never lose balance and makes tackling them a hassle LOL

Trickle through a handful of posts, and it near inevitable you will have a similar response to somebody's proposed issue.

It's never the games fault, and its always an underlying desire to self impose yourself as a better player that doesn't fall victim to the issues others do.

If your going to sit here and tell me you have never ran into a lineman and had a fall or tackle occur without direct contact, check the disc in your system because it's not M13.

The game play so fast, asking somebody to be patient is a laughable concept. At times inside handoffs develop so fast, you don't have time to steer a player before contact is made.

[siouxredskins]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

the game is only 3 weeks old, you and I will figure out and get use to its nuances soon enough

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

the game is only 3 weeks old, you and I will figure out and get use to its nuances soon enough

I'm sure we will, and I hope some of these issues can be fixed. Just understand the point I was making. The subject of this thread is brutally clear, I understand not wanting to read into others problems.

However, the approach you keep taking is adding zero to the conversation. Generally they have been geared in bettering this game and essentially your turning them into arguments.

Please, the next time you see an issue discussed, before you lambast the orginal poster and dismiss the problem as non exist, try it yourself. Take 10 minutes in game, in practice if needed and see if you have the problems come up. If they dont, then make a note of the offensive and defensive formations and share that it's not occurring on that set.

In all honesty and with complete respect, it's hard to take your responses seriously when your dismissing so many issues. Every person here should be able to agree, the game is not perfect and we are all working as a community to help improve it.

[scotty1011]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

I will add three issues that really have bugged me as well.

I did a play action pass from the shotgun and my QB bumped intothe offensive tackle which resulted in him falling down like he was hit by a 270 pound D-Linemen. I had to look at the replay because I didn’t know what happened.

The second issue is how did they mess up the running animation for RB at least they are bad and I don’t recall them being this bad last year before the Physics Engine. Finally we have RB’s arms with and without the ball flaring all overthe place like they are a ragdoll. There need to be constraints they shouldn’t look like ragdolls.

This is why I only rented the game this year.

[Obnoxious]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

I would be more satisfied with improved gang tackle animations and how a fear years ago, the runner would slow down and put his hand on the back of a blocker when running behind them.

I hate this rag doll garbage.

[slick589]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

Its not real physics. They added a layer of run time physics over existing animations.

There is no weight or momentum involved at all. Brandon Jacobs vs Mike Jenkins one on one will end with Jacobs being brought down easily. Likewise youll see players like desean jackson and darren sproles tossing linebackers off them with no trouble.

Also they need to add animations where guys use their hands. Not only for rbs running into the back of olinemen but also for defensive players. So many times i see lbs and safetys getting blocked by running directly into a teamate engaged with an olineman.

The idea of physics was great but the implementation leaves a ton to be desired, much like CCM.

[siouxredskins]

Re: Am I the only one starting to get really FRUSTRATED with this PHYSICS ENGINE???

what you fail to realize is players are actually recognising the presence of each other now,it seems to be leading to less morphing. You dont want to trip? then dont run into anything.
Its pretty simple isnt it ? But I'm trolling because i'm saying something so fundamentally basic, I suppose?
You wanted realism? you got it baby !


they will of course improve and tweak this over time.