OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

[WaitTilNextYear]

There seem to be many rosters floating around Operation Sports this baseball season, so what is this roster about?

Well, good question. How much time do you have?

Here's a very quick rundown of major characteristics that OS'ers usually ask about:

*Fully re-rated, both minor leaguers and major leaguers
*Updated transactions/lineups/rotations as of today (8/16/17)
*40-man rosters
*Injured players in either A ball (60-day DL) or AAA (10-day DL)
*Has pitch edits, equipment edits, and a whole kitchen sink worth of other features (read below for more info)
*Will not be updated. This is a one shot deal. There will be no other versions. I am starting my franchise, by God!


ROSTER VAULT INFO

PSN: KeepChooglin
Name: OS Realism Roster 2017


Here's a little bit more background for those who care to read on:

This is a roster created by myself and teeds. You may remember our work from previous iterations of the Hybrid roster going back to at least 2014. Or you might remember the Realism roster we put out back in 2015. Or you may recall some of teeds' many OSFM contributions in the past. Or my pitch edits and sliders. But, enough about us--this roster is intended to capture our great national sport as faithfully as a video game console will allow (and to the extent that 2 people with voracious appetites for detail and a finite amount of time can actually do it).

The main selling points of this roster include exclusive and complete re-ratings of the entire roster, a focus on improving player likenesses and accuracy, and something that is up-to-date (as of today) and should give you a ton of fun to play with down the homestretch of the baseball season. And I'm just gonna tell you right now that Mike Trout is a 96 OVR in this roster, so if that freaks you out, then this may not be your cup of tea. You've been forewarned!

Anyhow, you can read the spoilered information below for more specifics.


Fully Unbiased Ratings

Spoiler

*Ratings for batters and pitchers based on a combination of 2017 Steamer/ZiPS/Depth Chart Update projections.

*Ratings updated midseason to capture prospects who broke out/are breaking out.

*Defensive ratings based on empirical data, including Statcast catch probability.

*Speed ratings based on Statcast sprint speed data from 2017 and 2016 seasons.

*A "clutch-less" world. All players have a narrow range of standard clutch ratings based solely on their experience level. This follows the sabermetric argument that there really is no such thing as "clutch."

*Edited batting tendencies based on data from FanGraphs pull/middle/oppo percentages.

*Potentials for established MLB players adjusted to make sense with their overall rating (no 82 OVR guys with D POT).

*Tested sim stats that provide life-like sim stats and encapsulate the current run environment.

*Standardized pitcher batting, speed, fielding, and arm ratings. Pitcher defense ratings based on empirical data, such as DRS.

*Exclusive 2017 pitch edits for ~850 pitchers (not in any other roster) based on data from Brooks Baseball. Pitch classifications as well as movement and control calculations are improved over previous years of pitch edits. One such improvement includes regression to the mean in order to better handle small sample sizes for certain pitches (less 15's and 95's in control).

Detailed Player Likenesses

Spoiler

*Realistic contract lengths and amounts taken from Cot's contracts.

*Standardized minor league player salaries with a "minimum wage" of $70K.

*Option years on MLB contracts included only for 'no brainer' situations (i.e. Chris Sale) that are post-arbitration.

*Freshly updated jersey numbers from MLB and MiLB.

*Updated ages (June 30th cutoff), handedness, heights/weights, and birthplaces from MiLB.

*Audio names adjusted to remove random names and nearly correct sounds...only exact matches.

*Dozens of batting stances and pitching motions copied over from stickied thread on OS (thanks, guys). Player-specific stances and motions were not altered (you can decide to change it/lose personalization).

*Full equipment edits using Scott's spreadsheet (thanks, Scott). Fresh equipment and gear updates (August) for 100+ of the game's brightest stars and newly matriculated players. The Bellingers, and Trouts, and Judges, and Hoskinses etc.

*Hundreds of positional updates.

*SCEA utility players have preserved positional versatility (no editing "accidents" befell Kike Hernandez or Brock Holt or Leury Garcia etc).

*Dozens of newly created and updated faces with more accurate likenesses, stances/motions, and equipment. A much lower amount of generic likenesses remain than is customary in many rosters.

A Great Mix of Players

Spoiler

*Nearly all of the prospects from BA's midseason team-by-team top 10 lists are included, with systematic potential values based on their ranking.

*Nearly all of the players currently toiling away in AAA are included.

*All of the 2017 1st round draft picks are included, with a few later round picks as well.

*Some choice players and deep cuts that you may not be able to find in other rosters.

*Fully updated transactions (as of this evening 8/16).

*Current 40-man rosters, active rosters, lineups, and rotations based on Roster Resource (as of this evening 8/16).

*All players on the 60-day DL have been removed from the 40-man roster and placed in A ball. All players on the 10- or 7-day DL remain on the 40-man roster and can be found in AAA.

*No effort has been made to give AAA and AA levels accurate lineups/rotations/rosters other than sorting them roughly by age.

While we are excited and happy about all of the detail put into this roster (it is definitely "franchise-worthy" as Elaine Benes might put it), we are by no means claiming perfection. We also want to give a shout out to Ridin and the OSFM team that really sets the stage for these types of deals. In addition, thanks to the new guys working on the Hybrid roster this year for keeping that tradition going and getting you all a franchise-able roster before it gets this deep into the summer, which it inevitably does any time teeds and I team up.

I'm sure you will find things you disagree with in this roster and maybe even an odd error or two, but please do your best to voice your feedback in a way that respects the truly enormous undertaking (several months) that 2 people put into this (and decided to share). It seems that every year we have one guy who just comes off as unhinged (remember the single post glove fiasco in 2015? lol), so let's try not to do that again this time. With that said, we are happy to answer questions and look at any feedback you have. Thanks and enjoy.

[ARoid1313]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

I loved your roster from 15 , this is great news!!

[No.27]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

WTNY and teeds, I played more games than ever last year with the 16 Hybrid. This year I have only been able to get going with justmuncs Fictional which uses the 16 Hybrid as a base because I've been so spoilt. Your roster edits take the game to another level in terms of realism. What a great surprise, thanks so much for releasing the roster.

[teeds]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

A few more things:

*The roster base is strictly our own. I exported/imported from my version of the hybrid roster we were working on last year.

*All SCEA players included that were in '16 and transferred over to '17 retained their career stats (not zeroed out) and service time (the Danny Muno's, Rocky Gale's, Rico Noel's, and dozens of others)

*The worst part of doing an updated transactions roster is that you are constantly replacing players with new creations. Astute observers will be able to spot "generic" looking versions (with WTNY updated ratings) of these new creations. I'm in the process of editing these players to their accurate likeness. There might be another version released when I'm all done but it's late in the season and I don't think many people are concerned about a few generic looking minor leaguers.

*The entire AL, the NL East, and the Arizona Diamondbacks were given an original sweep of likeness edits. New players were added to these teams so more edits are required but if you're a fan of any of these teams, you'll like the appearance updates.

*Many batting stance/pitching motions and equipment updates were done to a random amount of minor leaguers as I went along.

*Aroid's Yankees edits and all his outstanding edits to the SCEA additions from roster updates are included. Some other team specific rosters were helpful as well (Bacon's Brewers minor leaguers and Ivanhoe's Tigers update come to mind)

[rjackson]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Thanks guys! The cool thing about a roster like this is that you can sim through this season and everything you do in the future is your own. Sign who you want. Trade who you want. Have fun!


WTNY, it sounds like you did some improvements to your pitch edits. What would you say the mean is on the control rating for MLB pitchers especially compared to the past? I ask because it makes a difference with the sliders.


Also, is the movement based strictly on real life movement or did you consider that the game uses movement as a K/9 modifier whilst playing (not simming)?


I'll download and upvote this later today. I am curious about how you handled clutch as well. There has been some discussion that clutch is important for say closers or they'll not perform right in the game. Your roster might give a chance to test this! You say it is standardized so I am assuming everyone got 50 or something?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Thanks guys! The cool thing about a roster like this is that you can sim through this season and everything you do in the future is your own. Sign who you want. Trade who you want. Have fun!


WTNY, it sounds like you did some improvements to your pitch edits. What would you say the mean is on the control rating for MLB pitchers especially compared to the past? I ask because it makes a difference with the sliders.


Also, is the movement based strictly on real life movement or did you consider that the game uses movement as a K/9 modifier whilst playing (not simming)?


I'll download and upvote this later today. I am curious about how you handled clutch as well. There has been some discussion that clutch is important for say closers or they'll not perform right in the game. Your roster might give a chance to test this! You say it is standardized so I am assuming everyone got 50 or something?

1. I hesitate to give you a number about the control ratings because I haven't calculated something like that specifically, but the issue is there are fewer outliers with really high and really low values for their pitch control. Gun to my head, I would say the control values on average are a little bit higher, in some part because there were more really low values than really high values in previous years. This time, all pitchers with fewer than 100 pitches of a given type had a sample of average control pitches mixed/weighted in to obtain their pitch control rating. Velocity and movement is easier to ascertain based only on a couple of pitches, but control is a different animal.

2. Movement is based strictly on real life movement. K/9 is a separate issue, but guys with high K/9 ratings most often also have good movement on their out pitches--most pitchers aren't blowing MLB hitters away with just a straight fastball. Movement has also been refined to isolate the more important parts...lateral break for sweeping curves, vertical break for 12-6, break in both dimensions for normal curveballs and sliders etc.

3. Clutch values range from 40 for players with no MLB experience under 25 years old, to 45 for players with little/no MLB experience and 25+ years old, to 50 for players with MLB experience. Since clutch has been adjusted for both batters and pitchers, the net effect should be minimal. Closers seem to do ok.

[RogueHominid]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Great looking roster.

I scoured the league and simmed 5 seasons and a couple things I like are:

Less inflated OVRs for fringe MLB guys, especially pitchers.

Higher team ERAs. After 5 seasons, still fully half the league was over 4.0, and in OSFM, usually the whole league is under 4.0.

[Landle]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

What Slider set should we be using? I usually use Mike Lowe. Difficulty? Input Settings like pure analog or direcional or doesnt matter?

[teeds]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

What Slider set should we be using? I usually use Mike Lowe. Difficulty? Input Settings like pure analog or direcional or doesnt matter?

Doesn't matter

[rjackson]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Great looking roster.

I scoured the league and simmed 5 seasons and a couple things I like are:

Less inflated OVRs for fringe MLB guys, especially pitchers.

Higher team ERAs. After 5 seasons, still fully half the league was over 4.0, and in OSFM, usually the whole league is under 4.0.

I noticed that potentials are lower as well. I wonder how that works out in the future with the draftees already having OVR in the 70s and the progression system inherent in the game.

[rjackson]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

1. I hesitate to give you a number about the control ratings because I haven't calculated something like that specifically, but the issue is there are fewer outliers with really high and really low values for their pitch control. Gun to my head, I would say the control values on average are a little bit higher, in some part because there were more really low values than really high values in previous years. This time, all pitchers with fewer than 100 pitches of a given type had a sample of average control pitches mixed/weighted in to obtain their pitch control rating. Velocity and movement is easier to ascertain based only on a couple of pitches, but control is a different animal.

2. Movement is based strictly on real life movement. K/9 is a separate issue, but guys with high K/9 ratings most often also have good movement on their out pitches--most pitchers aren't blowing MLB hitters away with just a straight fastball. Movement has also been refined to isolate the more important parts...lateral break for sweeping curves, vertical break for 12-6, break in both dimensions for normal curveballs and sliders etc.

3. Clutch values range from 40 for players with no MLB experience under 25 years old, to 45 for players with little/no MLB experience and 25+ years old, to 50 for players with MLB experience. Since clutch has been adjusted for both batters and pitchers, the net effect should be minimal. Closers seem to do ok.

Thx for the response. You knew what I was looking for since hybrids usually have a lower control rating. I would guess that the stock rosters get an average of like 45 control for a replacement level pitcher where hybrid is more like 45 for an average#3 SP. Sounds like you might still be more like the latter but without the black swans. I hope that explains what I was asking better.

I have given it a good perusal and you probably saw I still had some questions about long term. I haven't simmed anything but the ratings all look nicely done. I appreciate you sharing the rosters. Any idea where you might start on your own sliders? You have got to start playing, man. It is a good game this year offline. Real good. This is a damn good roster to play it with as well!

[bravesfan1984]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

WTNY, excited to see you release this roster. Can't wait to check it out....guess I'll be delaying the beginning of my franchise again haha

[dsmith710]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Wow thanks guys. Liked all the info given in the first post. I'll be downloading this tonight.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Great looking roster.

I scoured the league and simmed 5 seasons and a couple things I like are:

Less inflated OVRs for fringe MLB guys, especially pitchers.

Higher team ERAs. After 5 seasons, still fully half the league was over 4.0, and in OSFM, usually the whole league is under 4.0.

Yeah, that league average ERA should be in the 4.10-4.20 range, which is where it's at. Especially with all the homers. As always, our rosters are furiously tested for stats and intended for long-haul franchise players (yours truly) at least as much as for play now gamers.

As for the ratings, the idea for scaling them a little more conservatively than most is so that you really have to scramble to fill any deficiencies on your roster. You can't just plop in a 75 OVR guy who's 12th on your depth chart and not miss a beat. This should better approximate teams seeking out marginal talent or dipping into their minor leagues to bolster their rosters.

Thx for the response. You knew what I was looking for since hybrids usually have a lower control rating. I would guess that the stock rosters get an average of like 45 control for a replacement level pitcher where hybrid is more like 45 for an average#3 SP. Sounds like you might still be more like the latter but without the black swans. I hope that explains what I was asking better.

I have given it a good perusal and you probably saw I still had some questions about long term. I haven't simmed anything but the ratings all look nicely done. I appreciate you sharing the rosters. Any idea where you might start on your own sliders? You have got to start playing, man. It is a good game this year offline. Real good. This is a damn good roster to play it with as well!

I would characterize it as higher than previous Hybrids, but, again, I haven't done any real calculations to base that on. Just the impression I got after editing 1500 pitchers about 3 times each, lol.

I don't have any input on sliders, but my inkling is that you can roll with whatever sliders that you've already been using. If any issues come up, you can deal with them as you go.

And, yes, I got into some partial games and it's looking very nice with the ball physics and HDR. It already played a pretty good game of baseball in years past as well.

[RogueHominid]

Re: OS Realism Roster for MLB 17 The Show

Yeah, that league average ERA should be in the 4.10-4.20 range, which is where it's at. Especially with all the homers. As always, our rosters are furiously tested for stats and intended for long-haul franchise players (yours truly) at least as much as for play now gamers.

As for the ratings, the idea for scaling them a little more conservatively than most is so that you really have to scramble to fill any deficiencies on your roster. You can't just plop in a 75 OVR guy who's 12th on your depth chart and not miss a beat. This should better approximate teams seeking out marginal talent or dipping into their minor leagues to bolster their rosters.

I like the talent spread. Most teams aren't going to be able to lose a couple of starters and not suffer greatly. It's much easier to stock tons of quality depth with default rosters, and I like the idea of making it harder to do so.

I also like how real you got with the players who are really fringe MLB guys but whom we're accustomed to seeing with ratings in the mid-70s. In this game, I associate fringe players with ratings between 60-70 and I see guys with 70 + ratings as players who can start for several teams.

There are lots of guys starting on bad teams in this roster in the 60-65 range, which makes me think the base rosters pump these guys' ratings up a bit to make them seem less fringy.