CPU Manager Hook

[El_MaYiMbE]

I am loving the game, but the CPU Manager Hook is very bothersome and really sucks the reality out of the game.

It seems to me like the CPU Manager Hook is being determined by the relief pitcher's stamina and not necessarily by his performance and/or situation.

In almost every game, I have ran into a scenario where the CPU Manager brings in a relief pitcher either a MRP or LRP in the middle innings, has arms warming up in the bullpen, but does not go to them because the original RP still has stamina left.

This is causing a few things to happen:

1. If you are locked in on the RP, you are going to kill him and CPU Manager never goes to bullpen or mound visit (I think I have seen 1).
2. Unrealistic pitch counts from relief pitchers (30-50 range)
3. Unrealistic innings pitched by relief pitchers (3-5 innings)
4. Runs up score of the game due to ineffective RPs being left in too long.

All of this is regardless of the situation.
Here are two examples:

1. Yankees at Red Sox (CPU) - I am absolutely murdering Rick Porcello. I light him up to the tune of 7 runs in 3 innings pitched. The Sox proceed to bring in their LRP Brian Anderson (he is a technically a starter so his stamina is in mid-70s). I then proceed to tack on 12(!) runs for the next 6 innings on Anderson...I hit back to back to back HRs at one point. He pitched ALL remaining 6 innings and I only saw one mound visit. I beat the Red Sox 20-4. Now, while I understand that when there is a blow out, there is usually a guy who has to take a beating to save the bullpen, and had this been an anomaly, I would have said good job by the CPU....but no...

2. Yankees at Rangers (CPU) - Tanka vs Moore, both guys give up 4 runs through 5 innings. in the 6th inning Texas brings in Bartolo Colon (LRP w/ 80+ Stamina). Colon pitches Innings 6-9. He came in during a tied game (4-4). promptly gave up the lead in the first 4 batters he faced. In the 9th inning (with over 40 pitches) he was still pitching. He got to face Aaron Judge in a run 1 game, in the 9th. Judge hit a double, they intentionally walked Stanton to load bases for Didi Gregorious. Texas left Colon in the game in the 9th, losing by one with the bases loaded, 1 out, and 50+ pitches under his belt. He should have been out of the game 3+ innings/20 pitches ago. Not once did he get a mound visit, AND there were 2 MRPs warming up since the 6th Inning! The CPU never went to the bullpen. Not even to neutralize Greg Bird (LH) with a lefty specialist, again, in a close 1 run game in the late innings.

All of this happened with me having the CPU Manager Hook Slider= 9 and CPU Relief Stamina = 3. Meaning I tipped the scales to try and force the CPU to be more likely to go to the pen and they did not, so I don't even want to know how long the leash would be if CPU Manager Hook = Default!

I have opened a bug about this on TheShowNation.com, but to me this might be the biggest problem in the game at the moment. I would urge anyone who experienced anything similar to this to also report a bug. This logic just seems completely off, and I think somewhere in there this code just is not triggering, because the CPU's Bullpen Management is practically non-existent.

For the record...this is happening to me in Play Now (Exhibition). Not sure if the bullpen logic is different here vs Franchise, where the CPU does not have to "save" the pitchers arm for the next calendar day. I wait until OSFM Rosters are done to begin Franchise usually, so it will be a while before I test it there.

[countryboy]

I haven't had this experience. I just finished a game where Hershiser threw 110 pitches and a complete game. The cpu had guys warm up but didn't use them.

Also, I played a game earlier where I knocked Nolan Ryan out of the game and the cpu brought in a reliever, Goose Gossage. I got 4 hits and 3 runs off of him over an inning and they pulled him and brought in some one else but I can't remember who it was.

I'll report back if I run across anything similar but thus far the cpu bullpen management hasn't been bad at all. This is with everything at default.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

I haven't had this experience. I just finished a game where Hershiser threw 110 pitches and a complete game. The cpu had guys warm up but didn't use them. Also, I played a game earlier where I knocked Nolan Ryan out of the game and the cpu brought in a reliever, Goose Gossage. I got 4 hits and 3 runs off of him over an inning and they pulled him and brought in some one else but I can't remember who it was. I'll report back if I run across anything similar but thus far the cpu bullpen management hasn't been bad at all. This is with everything at default.

Hey Country, yeah I would appreciate you keeping an eye out for it. It took me a couple games to realize it was happening (was just excited to play!). But I started seeing a common theme. Still early, but the two examples above were the worst of it. There were definitely some others that were "iffy" too.

[countryboy]

After last year's manger hook/bullpen decision making, its one thing that I've been watching for. Thus far nothing odd/bad has happened, but I've only played a handful of complete games.

I'll be sure to report back if I find any oddities.

[tessl]

I've seen starting pitcher get to 100 pitchers if the cpu team is winning and I've seen starting pitchers pulled in the 4th inning if the team is losing.

My advice would be to turn off the DH when you start your franchise. When the pitcher comes up to bat the cpu might pinch hit.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

I've seen starting pitcher get to 100 pitchers if the cpu team is winning and I've seen starting pitchers pulled in the 4th inning if the team is losing. My advice would be to turn off the DH when you start your franchise. When the pitcher comes up to bat the cpu might pinch hit.

My main gripe with this issue is realism. Turning off DH is NOT an option for me to anyone who expects realism from The Show. The issue I described is deeper than just sometimes they do this and sometimes that.

What I described above is 100% related to CPU logic being off. If others can confirm they experience the same (like I feel I have) I would like for either:

1. SDS to resolve it (preferable)
2. OS Community fix via sliders (acceptable)

However #2 seems unlikely as me changing sliders hasn't yielded proper results, but I could be misdiagnosing the issue.

[zukes]

I think the OP is not talking about starters, they seem to be working fine, but I too have seen almost every reliever that comes in throw until he is yellow in stamina. There is something going on here.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Quote: Originally Posted by zukes

I think the OP is not talking about starters, they seem to be working fine, but I too have seen almost every reliever that comes in throw until he is yellow in stamina. There is something going on here.

Right, it seems like once they go to the pen, usually to an LRP, it seems like it's treating the new pitcher like a starter. Where he has a long leash, and a few runs over 3 or 4 innings is okay by the CPU Manager.

In real life, and in close games, relievers have relatively short leashes. Also, even if an RP is cruising, teams have "roles". LRPs shouldn't come in in the 6th inning, that is MRP territory. Also, unlike SPs, relief pitchers don't pitch until exhaustion even if they are pitching well. Because they could potentially be used tomorrow.