Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

[countryboy]

Ok...after looking over player stats last night I found a disturbing stat. Thru mid-May and appx 40 games, my team has 28 wild pitches. The most any other team has that I've totaled in the stats is 8.

Now while in game, I've never thought that wild pitches were an "issue", but the stats are telling a different story. Then I got to thinking that there are times in the game, where the game registers a wild pitch, but I would deem it a passed ball. Then I wondered if it was counting any time the ball hits the dirt, the catcher knocks it down but it transitions to the fielding screen just in case a runner tries to advance??

I sure don't feel like I've thrown 28 wild pitches in 40 games, as I would notice it happening nearly once per game. So I'm confused. Am I really seeing that many wild pitches, but because of the way it plays out in the game I'm not noticing it, or is the stat being counted wrong?

What made me look this up was that I threw two wild pitches in my last game vs the Indians and I just looked at the stats to see how many I've thrown on the year.

What is everyone else's opinion/thoughts on this?

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

I think it has been a severe issue the past few iterations of the game. In certain situations it makes it impossible to throw an off speed pitch low in the zone because it's somehow going to bounce far away from the catcher.

I haven't been keeping tabs, but on legend meter pitching, it's happening about 2 to 3 times a game. Even on pitches where I've hit the meter perfectly. I'm fine with pitches hitting the dirt, but there are far too many passed balls that allow the computer to score or get additional bases. The computers catchers also suffer with wild pitches, but do a much much much better job of not allowing passed balls. I can't tell you how many times I've got gunned out at 2nd on what looks like it should be a passed ball, only to have the computers catcher make an "amazing” play to get to the ball or block it.

[kinsmen7]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

I haven't tracked exact stats on it, but I'm fairly certain that the CPU has more wild pitches/passed balls than I do.

Could be a slider issue.

[KBLover]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

What is everyone else's opinion/thoughts on this?

Obviously, I can't speak for your experience, but I see "true" wild pitches constantly.

Balls catchers just can't block because it bounces away too much (not enough smothering/knocking it down right in front of them), combined with overly aggressive runners (and if they make it, it's scored a WP), when in the real game, they'd likely stay put, especially going from 2nd to 3rd where the cost of failure is just too high for how casually they try to go.

I rarely see passed balls. It's always the slider that 5 feet outside (literally) or the ball in the dirt that hits the chest plate and then somehow bounces 10 feet away constantly. And it's almost always sliders and curves...the game is overdone with how they miss, especially with good control pitchers or pitchers with good command of the pitch. The "miss zone" is high, even with good execution...so when you get bad execution...

I think there's a lot of factors into it, but, at least for me, erroneous scoring isn't one I would place high on the list.

It's to the point where I'm balancing sliders around Consistency at 10 for both me and CPU just to curb the miss ranges (while still getting balls/Zone % decent) just to try to put the clamps on this...with mixed results.

Then I wondered if it was counting any time the ball hits the dirt, the catcher knocks it down but it transitions to the fielding screen just in case a runner tries to advance??

If the game is scoring this a WP, I've not seen it. I've only seen WP when the runner successfully advances. So if the runner fails, no WP is charged unless one other runner advanced safely. If the runners don't go, I've never seen it scored as anything, either on the OSD, game logs, or box score.

I haven't tracked exact stats on it, but I'm fairly certain that the CPU has more wild pitches/passed balls than I do.

Could be a slider issue.

Consistency probably helps some...but I'm still seeing the CPU with many more wild pitches, especially on sliders, and even for me, I have more than the average even with good (or better) command (BB/9, Control) pitchers - also often on sliders and curves.

Since I use Classic (influenced by RNG and, by proxy, the event rate set by the various factors, including sliders), it's not a lot of input issue from me. All I can do is set target or start point of the pitch, and I never target 5 feet outside or a 53 foot curve.

[countryboy]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

See that's the thing, while playing I'm not seeing a bunch of wild pitches. I see pitches hit the dirt, the catcher knocks it down and the screen flips to the fielding screen, but nothing happens. I'm wondering if the game is counting these as wild pitches??

Obviously I can't recall with 100% certainty how many wild pitches I've actually thrown, where the ball gets away that allows advancement of base runners or is so wild that the catcher can't make a play on it without men on base, but I can't believe its anywhere close to 28 for the year.

That is what is making me wonder if the game is miscounting the number of wild pitches in the stats screen???

That is my primary issue is the stat being wrong, moreso than actual wild pitches in the game. Reason I brought it up is that I'm concerned that if the stat is inflated incorrectly and the game uses that stat as part of the formula for progression/regression then it's going to cause that to be off.

[KBLover]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

See that's the thing, while playing I'm not seeing a bunch of wild pitches. I see pitches hit the dirt, the catcher knocks it down and the screen flips to the fielding screen, but nothing happens. I'm wondering if the game is counting these as wild pitches??

That is what is making me wonder if the game is miscounting the number of wild pitches in the stats screen???

That is my primary issue is the stat being wrong, moreso than actual wild pitches in the game. Reason I brought it up is that I'm concerned that if the stat is inflated incorrectly and the game uses that stat as part of the formula for progression/regression then it's going to cause that to be off.

If it does, I've not noticed any impact to player development. My (meaning in my franchises) catchers' defensive ratings seem to be moving along as expected (growth if they are still young, etc.), and I'm getting to many of the actual ones.

The only way to know for sure is to track it yourself. Then, there's no guesswork.

Take your WP stat before the game (28 in your case).

Track every time there's a ball in the dirt and actual WP (i.e. the runners move up)

See what your WP stat is after the game.

Do they line up? If not, then you may be on to something.

I wish I had your problem, honestly, instead of too many actual wild pitches.

[coach422001]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

There may be some more insights here:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...d-pitches.html

Can you see the pitcher's box score with WP between or during innings to test the theory that just hitting the ground and getting Matt V all worked up is triggering a WP count? I never play the game but see plenty of blocked balls, but never looked to see if they were being scored as anything other than a ball.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Ok...after looking over player stats last night I found a disturbing stat. Thru mid-May and appx 40 games, my team has 28 wild pitches. The most any other team has that I've totaled in the stats is 8.

Now while in game, I've never thought that wild pitches were an "issue", but the stats are telling a different story. Then I got to thinking that there are times in the game, where the game registers a wild pitch, but I would deem it a passed ball. Then I wondered if it was counting any time the ball hits the dirt, the catcher knocks it down but it transitions to the fielding screen just in case a runner tries to advance??

I sure don't feel like I've thrown 28 wild pitches in 40 games, as I would notice it happening nearly once per game. So I'm confused. Am I really seeing that many wild pitches, but because of the way it plays out in the game I'm not noticing it, or is the stat being counted wrong?

What made me look this up was that I threw two wild pitches in my last game vs the Indians and I just looked at the stats to see how many I've thrown on the year.

What is everyone else's opinion/thoughts on this?

This is the very first thing i noticed and tested out of the box this year, and yes it's definitely a problem.

From all i have seen, Wild Pitches in the game are rarely counted wrong, and usually ruled pretty close to accuratly (meaning it is not counting when it transitions to the fielding screen). I score stats, including WP and PB on my own, completely apart from the game, and compare them to the game's stats.The game has actually recorded a few more WP than i have, yet i have recorded a few more PB than the game (which is 0 so far). And it evens out. So the way the game records it isn't really a problem.

I agree that a few Wild Pitches should be ruled Passed Balls that the game gets wrong, but not that many. Even if they were ruled incorrectly, however, 28 WP+PB would still be way too many. By 45 games you should have around 3 PB, on average. If your catchers are horrible, you might have up to 6 or 7, and if you subtracted those from your WP, you would still be one of the worst WP teams in the league, in addition to having the worst catchers! So basically the problem would still exist, just recorded differently.

The problem with the game, is that catchers just don't block balls in the dirt like an MLB Catcher. Even if block ratings are increased to 99, the problem persists. Passed balls aren't a problem in the game because it doesn't require the catcher to block anything. Balls in the dirt are the key.

This is why, as much as i hate to do it, i have to modify my pitching strategy with runners on base. I still throw out of the zone, especially with 2 strikes, but not in the dirt. (Obviously i miss sometimes and the ball goes in the dirt). With no one on base i will throw that table dropping curveball or a slider in the dirt. With runners on, however im trying to throw those same pitches where the catcher catches it against the ground without it hitting dirt, which is risky - so i throw in/out/up out of the zone more too.

I am not doing this to make stats line up, i am doing it it keep those dang runners where they are. All those extra runners in scoring position hurts Runs Against, ERA, Winning Percentage etc.

The added benefit is that doing this makes stats line up. (It probably lowers strikeouts a bit). I am averaging. .36 WP per game. MLB average is .37/G and the worst team in MLB averages about .59 WP/G. Assuming you've played 45 games, at 28 WP, you would be averaging .62 WP/G. What makes this even worse, is the fact that the worst team in your league (8 WP) only throws .18 WP/G - Half the amount an average team should throw. Would be nice to know how often your team advances on WP to compare.

All that to say - each time an extra runner gets into scoring position, they add up into extra losses by the end of the year. So to me, it's imperative to adjust strategy when runners are on base until SDS makes catcher blocking realistic.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Sorry for the double post but i read the CPU Wild Pitches posts afterward.

As for me, CPU Wild Pitches have not been a problem in the slightest. They are averaging .32 WP/G compared to MLB .37 WP/G. So they throw a less than average amount of WP. And i am pretty agressive taking bases on WP, because with my team, I need every advantage i can get. There are times that i stay put however, depending on the situation, and how sure i am that i won't be gunned down.

[countryboy]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Like I said, maybe I have thrown 28 wild pitches/passed balls in the game thus far, but it sure doesn't feel that way. I threw 2 against the Indians my last game and just happened to look out of curiosity, and was shocked by the total number.

Hopefully the number of WP thrown by a pitcher doesn't effect his progression/regression, because as I said, it hasn't had that big of an impact on the game, at least for me to notice. I just don't want my pitchers being negatively impacted by a stat that is accumulating and looks bad, when seemingly its actual impact on the game is minimal.

[Jr.]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

It's a big issue in my franchise for me. I use classic pitching, so there I have less control of how my pitchers miss. This means that if I want to be sure that I throw a breaking ball below the zone, I have to overexaggerate to where I'm more likely to miss in the dirt than in the zone.

This means that I probably throw more pitches in the dirt than those that use a different pitching mechanic, and certainly more than the CPU throws in the dirt.

The second part of this is, while they improved the catchers, I still have too many instances of guys advancing on blocked pitches that don't leave the dirt. Runners get too quick of jumps and there is no indecision. The transition from fielding to throwing is still a little slow.

All of that said, I think I'm averaging 1-3 WP per game with a catcher that has a blocking rating of 68ish (not great, but probably around average).

[phenom1990]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

I think it has been a severe issue the past few iterations of the game. In certain situations it makes it impossible to throw an off speed pitch low in the zone because it's somehow going to bounce far away from the catcher.

I haven't been keeping tabs, but on legend meter pitching, it's happening about 2 to 3 times a game. Even on pitches where I've hit the meter perfectly. I'm fine with pitches hitting the dirt, but there are far too many passed balls that allow the computer to score or get additional bases. The computers catchers also suffer with wild pitches, but do a much much much better job of not allowing passed balls. I can't tell you how many times I've got gunned out at 2nd on what looks like it should be a passed ball, only to have the computers catcher make an "amazing” play to get to the ball or block it.

This sums up my experience perfectly. It’s my biggest gripe in the game.

Almost everything else that frustrates me in this game is user driven ( not working counts, not locating pitches, etc). There are the occasional fielding miscues that could be cleaned up but those are no where near game breakers.

[Bunselpower32]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Jr. and KBLover are spot on. I don't throw nearly as many low breaking pitches anymore because even if the catcher blocks it, it will bounce 10 feet away and even with the "improved" catchers, i still get loads of throws that are just lobbed enough to allow the guy to slide in exactly ahead of the tag (despite loading up the throw power and arm strengths being good enough to zip it). Last night was the first time I threw out an advancing runner all year.

[Caulfield]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Why dont we see higher number of wild pitches from knuckleballers? From what I've seen, they are far too low. Using classic rosters with guys like Phil Niekro & Tim Wakefield. I usually see 3 or 4 for the whole year when looking over stats, instead of double digits into the teens.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Let's Discuss Wild Pitches/Passed Balls

Like I said, maybe I have thrown 28 wild pitches/passed balls in the game thus far, but it sure doesn't feel that way. I threw 2 against the Indians my last game and just happened to look out of curiosity, and was shocked by the total number.

Hopefully the number of WP thrown by a pitcher doesn't effect his progression/regression, because as I said, it hasn't had that big of an impact on the game, at least for me to notice. I just don't want my pitchers being negatively impacted by a stat that is accumulating and looks bad, when seemingly its actual impact on the game is minimal.

I don't know about the impact on the game being minimal, even though it may seem like that. But any time you are putting 100 extra runners in scoring position (every wild pitch), moving them to 3rd, or scoring them, it's really hurting your team. It can have a larger impact than it seems. 100 WP is your current pace (assuming you've played approx 45 games). Thats about 40 extra WP over average - and more than is realistic, even for a bad team. That means you're likely giving your opponent 20 to 25 extra runs per season, maybe even more. That doesn't seem like a ton, except the fact that those are all bonus runs, over and above whatever you should normally give up.

How those runs are dispersed could have more impact than the overall number of extra runs itself. If those 40-ish random Wild Pitch games happen to be dispersed in very many close games, it could have a significant impact on winning divisions, making the playoffs, or not. (It also would depend on if the CPU is matching your WP output, which would soften the impact.) But i would be just as concerned about the impact on the season as pitcher progression, especially for us meter/analog players who can make adjustments to reign it in. WP can fly under the radar since most of it's impact isn't immediately noticeable.

Just thought i would throw this out there for anyone who hadn't thought of it this way. I have a bad team and i am always looking for big and small leaks to plug up. Because they add up fast!