Anthony Edwards Ratings

[iprmike]

Anyone notice Anthony Edwards’ athletic ratings are way lower than they should be? The official roster has his driving dunk at 75 and his vertical at 82.

Feel like those ratings should in the 90s. Thoughts?

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Anyone notice Anthony Edwards’ athletic ratings are way lower than they should be? The official roster has his driving dunk at 75 and his vertical at 82.

Feel like those ratings should in the 90s. Thoughts?

Quick Google search on Edwards Vertical (normally 2K uses combine results but there was no combine this year).

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30321844/the-pain-promise-top-nba-draft-prospect-anthony-edwards

Started at 39.5 Vert (which is about 90 by scale).

Went to 41.5 Vert, which I personally grade as 99 (I'm not afraid of maxing multiple players which 2K is for whatever misguided philosophical reason).

2K has a habit of staggering scales once ratings get to the 90s, so they'd probably put him at 93-94 or something once someone brings it to their attention.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

As far as Dunk rating, was able to uncover that Edwards dunked 27 times last year (5.3% of his FGA).

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?t=Georgia&year=2020&p=Anthony+Edwards&cbarg=0&psort=Dunk

A dunk rating of 75 should suffice, esp if we aren't factoring the lower competition level.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Scouting:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/obwHBMy8pNk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Most of his dunks are on the break rather than the half-court.

Reviewing the rest of his ratings
90 Pick & Roll Defense (curious who they copy & pasted his base from)
74 Perimeter Defense (they're being generous)
74 Help Defense (ditto)
92 Shot Contest (uhhhh....)
80 Hustle (no.)
52 Strength (he's 6'5" / 225)
54 Offensive Rebound (this is like 20 points overrated)

Edwards also has ZERO badges (I didn't check but this is likely the case w/ all the rookies).

I would recommend (of the PS4 options):
FINISHING: Contact Finisher, Relentless Finisher, Fastbreak Finisher
SHOOTING: Difficult Shots, Deep Fades, Pump Fake Maestro, Tireless Shooter, Volume Shooter
PLAYMAKING: Downhill, Quick First Step
DEFENSE: None

All told, I have:

Anthony Edwards
79 OVR (+2)
Position: SF/SG (from SG/SF)
Archetype: Slasher (from Mid-Range Specialist)
Badges: 10 (+10)

[iprmike]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Quick Google search on Edwards Vertical (normally 2K uses combine results but there was no combine this year).

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30321844/the-pain-promise-top-nba-draft-prospect-anthony-edwards

Started at 39.5 Vert (which is about 90 by scale).

Went to 41.5 Vert, which I personally grade as 99 (I'm not afraid of maxing multiple players which 2K is for whatever misguided philosophical reason).

2K has a habit of staggering scales once ratings get to the 90s, so they'd probably put him at 93-94 or something once someone brings it to their attention.

I just find it so odd that 2k could drop the ball so badly on this. How could they not know the vertical of the #1 pick and also be so off on the other ratings. I checked on a couple other rookies and they seem to be off in a lot of areas, too. Patrick Williams, for one, really got hated on for his athleticism as well. 2K just being lazy in order to get the class released as soon as possible I guess.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

I just find it so odd that 2k could drop the ball so badly on this. How could they not know the vertical of the #1 pick and also be so off on the other ratings. I checked on a couple other rookies and they seem to be off in a lot of areas, too. Patrick Williams, for one, really got hated on for his athleticism as well. 2K just being lazy in order to get the class released as soon as possible I guess.

That ESPN article w/ the Verts was written on November 15th (3 days before the draft, and took research to discover). It's not data sourced from a table.

As far as 2K being lazy - there are a lot of people who throw that term around and it couldn't be further from the truth. A BAD roster editor (or group of editors) is still putting in hundreds (if not 1000+) of hours of work. There's a difference between being "lazy" and "inefficient". Work ethic isn't 2K's problem.

I think in general people underestimate how time consuming roster editing is. Most of 2K's editing is processed in bulk, rather than focusing on individuals. They'd want a list of official Verticals so they can update them across the board, rather than having to rely on Google guesswork for each individual player.

You can see from my post time stamps that I spent about 40 minutes working on ratings & badges for Edwards. Lets say I spent 10 minutes of that typing up my post - it took about 30 minutes to effectively rate & grade a player and also update my roster & database.

Now multiply that by 30 first rounders. That's 15 hours. That might not seem like a lot, but it definitely is.
There are 500 players in the NBA at all times. That's 15,000 minutes. 250 hours. There are 168 in a week. We sleep about 42 hours per week. Eating and all the other life functions.

One could spend a month editing and then be wildly out of date once games are being played. Now factor in the financial costs (salaries) that would accrue from keeping up this way.

It ain't like 2K is out here playing Minesweeper rather than updating rosters. They work around the clock, it's just a substantial amount of data to crunch.

[loso_34]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

These are fair points but Edwards is the #1 draft pick not a 2nd rounder.

[iprmike]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

These are fair points but Edwards is the #1 draft pick not a 2nd rounder.

My thoughts exactly.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

That ESPN article w/ the Verts was written on November 15th (3 days before the draft, and took research to discover). It's not data sourced from a table.

As far as 2K being lazy - there are a lot of people who throw that term around and it couldn't be further from the truth. A BAD roster editor (or group of editors) is still putting in hundreds (if not 1000+) of hours of work. There's a difference between being "lazy" and "inefficient". Work ethic isn't 2K's problem.

I think in general people underestimate how time consuming roster editing is. Most of 2K's editing is processed in bulk, rather than focusing on individuals. They'd want a list of official Verticals so they can update them across the board, rather than having to rely on Google guesswork for each individual player.

You can see from my post time stamps that I spent about 40 minutes working on ratings & badges for Edwards. Lets say I spent 10 minutes of that typing up my post - it took about 30 minutes to effectively rate & grade a player and also update my roster & database.

Now multiply that by 30 first rounders. That's 15 hours. That might not seem like a lot, but it definitely is.
There are 500 players in the NBA at all times. That's 15,000 minutes. 250 hours. There are 168 in a week. We sleep about 42 hours per week. Eating and all the other life functions.

One could spend a month editing and then be wildly out of date once games are being played. Now factor in the financial costs (salaries) that would accrue from keeping up this way.

It ain't like 2K is out here playing Minesweeper rather than updating rosters. They work around the clock, it's just a substantial amount of data to crunch.

Those time examples are all well and good, but I HIGHLY doubt the roster is researched, tabulated, sourced, and updated by one guy alone in a room. Lets say it takes 15 hours to do a draft class. Even if they only have 3 guys doing this, that's 5 hours each. If they have 15 guys doing this, that's 1 hour each. 10 guys on a 40 hour work week = 400 hours dedicated to the roster.

If they have 10 guys working on the roster, they should have every single player in the league edited to precision in less than 1 week. How long has 2k21 been out? How long since the draft? How many YEARS have the rosters been garbage with broken gameplay and broken sim stats?

I really don't get it. Bedswardsroy was a roster creator on these forums for years. He would make incredible rosters that provided great gameplay and great sim stats. Then 2K hired him, and I swear nothing has changed or improved in their rosters. Same problems year after year. It doesn't make sense.

I digress.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Those time examples are all well and good, but I HIGHLY doubt the roster is researched, tabulated, sourced, and updated by one guy alone in a room. Lets say it takes 15 hours to do a draft class.

It takes a lot longer than that, but go off with your fantasy math equation.

How many YEARS have the rosters been garbage with broken gameplay and broken sim stats?

It's almost as if programming a video game is much more difficult than looking up stats on Basketball Reference.

I really don't get it. Bedswardsroy was a roster creator on these forums for years. He would make incredible rosters that provided great gameplay and great sim stats. Then 2K hired him, and I swear nothing has changed or improved in their rosters. Same problems year after year. It doesn't make sense.

I understand that the Internet is the magical land of hyperbole, but that isn't remotely close to true. Load up any roster from 8 or more years ago to see how much everything has progressed across the board from both a surface level and the intricate details.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

If they have 15 guys doing this, that's 1 hour each. 10 guys on a 40 hour work week = 400 hours dedicated to the roster.

You left this out of your equation:

Each one of those guys has a $50,000 salary.

15 people would be $750,000.

Anyone out here who thinks Anthony Edwards w/ an 82 Vertical and whatever other trifling detail is worth half a million dollars to "fix"?

It's easy to talk about someone else's resources.

[keshunleon]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Other than Rashidi, do you guys actually take time to really look at the basketball information that goes into creating and editing players?

Edwards was the number 1 pick but he actually isn't a good NBA player.

Go look at his college stats, just because he can jump and athletic doesn't mean it's easy to guesstimate a good rating based off college stats for a number 1 pick.

I was always calling 2K out but it takes me about 65 mins per team and I don't go in depth like The Real 2K Insider.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Not specifically related to Edwards but feels like the number of times a player dunks should be more related to a dunk tendency than dunk rating regardless. Your ability to dunk/dunk rating shouldn't be directly tied to your tendencies of when/where you take your shots.

That would make sense in the sense of open court lay-ups/vs open court dunks, but not every single player attempts the same number of dunks or even seeks out the opportunity to attempt the same number of dunks. It's a shot tendency. That's like saying free throw rating should be sorted by made free throws rather than free throw shooting percentage.

Not saying there is no correlation at all, but someone like Rudy Gobert who consistently leads the league in dunks is not a better "dunker" than guys competing in dunk contests. I have no numbers in front of me but someone like Zach LaVine who spends most of his time on the perimeter shooting threes and deep step backs/pull-ups isn't going to have a dunk rating that corresponds to if he tried to only dunk all game long, or found himself wide open with a clear path to the rim like modern rim-runners do.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Not specifically related to Edwards but feels like the number of times a player dunks should be more related to a dunk tendency than dunk rating regardless. Your ability to dunk/dunk rating shouldn't be directly tied to your tendencies of when/where you take your shots.

Yes and no. The dunk rating is a tendency in the sense that a higher dunk rating will increase dunks in a half-court setting.

The majority of guards dunk very infrequently in the half-court. I've crunched dunk stats for a few years now. 2K also loosely uses dunk rates for their ratings now, FWIW (they finally updated this year after not touching them for 5+ years).

That's like saying free throw rating should be sorted by made free throws rather than free throw shooting percentage.

If the dunk rating's purpose was to affect shooting accuracy, you would have a point.

Not saying there is no correlation at all, but someone like Rudy Gobert who consistently leads the league in dunks is not a better "dunker" than guys competing in dunk contests.

You realize there are TWO dunk ratings, right?
Gobert and other Centers will have significantly higher Standing Dunk ratings than guards.
As a result, Driving Dunk scales differently for front-court players.

I have no numbers in front of me but someone like Zach LaVine

The data scales differently by position.

LaVine dunked 7.7% of his FGA, which is elite for a guard.

who spends most of his time on the perimeter shooting threes and deep step backs/pull-ups isn't going to have a dunk rating that corresponds to if he tried to only dunk all game long

You just described all guards in today's NBA. Ronnie Brewer types aren't walking through that door. The handful of non-shooters (like a Romeo Langford) are exactly the players who would be getting higher dunk ratings anyway.

I understand the reasoning, it just doesn't hold up once we bring the data in.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Anthony Edwards Ratings

Dunk% - 2020 Starting PGs (Total Dunks)
16.7% Ben Simmons (102)
6.7% Ja Morant (49)
6.2% LeBron James (79)
4.1% Russell Westbrook (40)
3.7% Jamal Murray (29)
3.6% De'Aaron Fox (23)
3.6% Markelle Fultz (22)
3.4% Tomas Satoransky (17)
3.3% DeJounte Murray (19)
2.9% John Wall (14) - 2019 stats
2.3% Lonzo Ball (15)
2.0% Elfrid Payton (9)
1.4% Damian Lillard (16)
1.2% Luka Doncic (12)
0.8% Malcolm Brogdon (6)
0.6% Patrick Beverley (1)
0.4% Devonte Graham (4)
0.4% D'Angelo Russell (3)
0.3% Eric Bledsoe (2)
0.3% Derrick Rose (2)
0.0% Chris Paul, Darius Garland, Kemba Walker, Trae Young, Goran Dragic, Mike Conley, Kyrie Irving, Fred VanVleet, Ricky Rubio, Stephen Curry

Dunk% - 2020 Starting SGs (Total Dunks)
7.7% Zach LaVine (88)
5.6% R.J. Barrett (35)
5.1% Jaylen Brown (38)
5.0% Gary Harris (25)
3.5% Bradley Beal (41)
3.2% Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (14)
3.0% Malik Beasley (13)
2.6% Jrue Holiday (22)
2.5% Donovan Mitchell (26)
2.5% Josh Richardson (15)
2.4% Collin Sexton (23)
2.3% Tim Hardaway Jr (17)
2.0% Paul George (15)
2.0% Caris LeVert (15)
1.9% Klay Thompson (19) - 2019 stats
1.9% Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (19)
1.8% Kevin Huerter (10)
1.7% Devin Booker (22)
1.6% Victor Oladipo (3)
1.5% James Harden (20)
1.3% Dillon Brooks (11)
0.9% Terry Rozier (6)
0.6% Duncan Robinson (2)
0.5% Wesley Matthews (2)
0.4% C.J. McCollum (3)
0.4% Bogdan Bogdanovic (2)
0.3% Evan Fournier (2)
0.3% Luke Kennard (1)
0.0% Kyle Lowry, Bryn Forbes

Takeaways:

Ben Simmons is both the best dunking PG in NBA history and is a bit of an aberration given that he sees minutes at Power Forward. Unlike every other PG in the league, he gets Standing Dunks. While his shot profile (no jumpers) boosts his "frequency", he's also an objectively better dunker than every other guard.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9AkENS_tLEI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Only 7 of 60 starting guards post a rate > 4.0%.

Most guards range between 1-3%
The range for SGs is particularly "flat". Only LaVine stands out as a classic "dunker".